Infrastructure Bill passed. I don’t think this is good.

[RingoDingo]

But the unknown continues to be whether the Bill is retroactive to Jan1,2022? I have a CT coming in between Dec 29th-Jan 2. Currently arriving in San Diego Dec 28th.

I can’t see how you can pull the rug out from someone buying a car in January with the expectation of a $7500 tax credit and then tell them they don’t get it ex post facto. I mean I don’t write tax legislation so maybe this is totally kosher, but ordinarily reasonable reliance would say you can’t do that to people.

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[whitex]

Leases you get the immediate cap reduction. If the Bill hastnt passed in Jan 2022, it shouldnt affect the lease

I think this may be false hope. Immediate cap reduction is on the leasing company side, not government. Leasing company gets the credit during their income tax filing. If they know it's going away by the time they file (not sure if they can file quarterly or annually like the rest of us), they are not likely to do the cap reduction and eat the cost.

 

[Mr.Smith]

I think this may be false hope. Immediate cap reduction is on the leasing company side, not government. Leasing company gets the credit during their income tax filing. If they know it's going away by the time they file (not sure if they can file quarterly or annually like the rest of us), they are not likely to do the cap reduction and eat the cost.

The Bill was originally retroactive to May 2021, was going to be passed by December 2021, but leasing companies still did the $7500 cap reduction

 

[whitex]

I can’t see how you can pull the rug out from someone buying a car in January with the expectation of a $7500 tax credit and then tell them they don’t get it ex post facto. I mean I don’t write tax legislation so maybe this is totally kosher, but ordinarily reasonable reliance would say you can’t do that to people.

Well, this is our government. They don't care if they pull the financial rug from under "the rich" (yes, this is the sentiment among Democrats, some of whom for example still believe that all Taycan buyers make over $900K a year for example - this one was based on some media hype earlier this year which used the average income of a Taycan buyer, but didn't clarify that the average was way inflates since some of the richest people in the world, like Bill Gates for example, bought Taycans).

 

[whitex]

The Bill was originally retroactive to May 2021, was going to be passed by December 2021, but leasing companies still did the $7500 cap reduction

Originally when? Probably way before any real chance of passing (one of the "proposals"). I think it's close enough now that the leasing companies will not risk eating the cost, unless the same car qualifies for same or bigger rebate in the new bill, then they will happily cap reduce $7,500 and pocket the difference if the bill passes.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Originally when? Probably way before any real chance of passing (one of the "proposals"). I think it's close enough now that the leasing companies will not risk eating the cost, unless the same car qualifies for same or bigger rebate in the new bill, then they will happily cap reduce $7,500 and pocket the difference if the bill passes.

Its a good point so we will have to see. Ill know on Jan 2nd when the VWFS releases its new leasing programs

 

[atebit]

electrek & “Scooter” don’t appear to give a rats a** about those who went electric in 2021.

Ex Post Facto laws are supposedly illegal in the US.

 

[kort]

Leases you get the immediate cap reduction. If the Bill hastnt passed in Jan 2022, it shouldnt affect the lease

how can porsche give a cap reduction based on a program that currently does not exist?

 

[kort]

The Bill was originally retroactive to May 2021, was going to be passed by December 2021, but leasing companies still did the $7500 cap reduction

they did the cap reduction based on the current tax regs.

 

[Mr.Smith]

how can porsche give a cap reduction based on a program that currently does not exist?

The $7500 tax credit for OEMs that sell less than 200k cars does not exist in 2022?

 

[kort]

The $7500 tax credit for OEMs that sell less than 200k cars does not exist in 2022?

not if superseded by the bill proposed

 

[Mr.Smith]

not if superseded by the bill proposed

Doesnt the Bill have to pass first and if it doesn't, the $7500 tax credit/Lease Cap reduction still stands?

 

[kort]

Doesnt the Bill have to pass first and if it doesn't, the $7500 tax credit/Lease Cap reduction still stands?

that I cannot comment on, I really don't follow the kabuki like machinations of the congress critters.
as nancy has stated, they need to pass a bill until you know what really is in it.

 

[jvincent]

Speculation is great, and no one knows what is going to happen, but…

Let's say, by some chance, the bill is delayed and leases early in 2022 are still offered with a $7500 capital cost reduction. That would allow a lessee to "lock in" the tax credit where as a purchase would come with significant uncertainty. Would anyone care the speculate on the efficacy of leasing followed by a buyout of the lease? Could any savings be realized in that scenario?

Without early termination penalties, my preliminary calculations indicate one could still realize most of the tax credit without the risk of an outright purchase. I'm not a finance guy. What am I missing?

 

[schad]

I can’t see how you can pull the rug out from someone buying a car in January with the expectation of a $7500 tax credit and then tell them they don’t get it ex post facto. I mean I don’t write tax legislation so maybe this is totally kosher, but ordinarily reasonable reliance would say you can’t do that to people.

They intended to make the capital gains tax increase retroactive to the moment the plan was first publicized, specifically to prevent people from realizing gains prior to the passage of the increase.

EV tax credits and capital gains taxes are very different in a lot of ways, so making the latter retroactive doesn't imply the former will be too. But in a sense, the seal has been broken, which makes it a smaller step to make other types of increases retroactive as well.

This has nothing to do with reasonableness or fairness, of course. But the tax code's got nothing to do with reasonableness or fairness either.

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