Infrastructure Bill passed. I don’t think this is good.

[Artman]

Uh oh... "Manchin strikes major deal with Schumer"

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[dmattingly23]

Not sure when the bill goes into effect but looks like you won’t be able to claim the tax credit if you make over a certain income

 

[bergs]

looks like its for vehicles placed in service after december 31, 2022. but its all legalese to me...

the transition period is the most confusing, if anyone could help clarify, it would be great! my car is between the port and the dealership, seems like i should go fast just in case

EV credit is around page 366 +/-

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/inflation_reduction_act_of_2022.pdf

 

[Artman]

looks like its for vehicles placed in service after december 31, 2022. but its all legalese to me...

the transition period is the most confusing, if anyone could help clarify, it would be great! my car is between the port and the dealership, seems like i should go fast just in case

EV credit is around page 366 +/-

https://www.democrats.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/inflation_reduction_act_of_2022.pdf

Here are some take-aways that I see.

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[gotzillar]

Oh my, thanks for info. this could change my plan for Taycan and iX.

 

[dmattingly23]

There is language about an exception for folks who bought already or signed a contract to buy prior to the bill going into effect (of course that raises a lot of gray areas….does a refundable deposit for a future build qualify as an exception?)

 

[Kayone73]

Here are some take-aways that I see.

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What 'taking service's means the customer must actually take delivery and finalize purchase paperwork of the vehicle prior to 12/31/22 to avoid all the new limitations dictated by this new EV tax credit legislation.

Commercial vehicles weighing over 14,000 pounds are eligible for a tax credit of $40,000 or 30% of the vehicle cost, whichever is less.

Vehicles with a gross weight less than 14,000 pounds are eligible for a $7,500 tax credit.

The $7,500 tax credit can be availed for new clean energy vehicle purchases by those whose income is under $300,000 for joint filers, $225,000 for heads of households and $150,000 for others.

Used clean vehicle purchasers would get a $4,000 tax credit.

All EVs bought after Dec. 31, 2022 would qualify for the EV credit.

The tax credit would run through Dec. 31, 2032.

To be eligible for the tax credit, the vehicle should be made in North America.

There are retail price caps of $80,000 for vans, SUVs and pickup trucks; $55,000 for others, including sedans; and $25,000 for used cars.

Batteries have to contain a certain level of critical minerals extracted or processed in any country the U.S. has a free trade agreement with or are recycled in North America.

The bill also seeks to do away with the previous mandate that required qualified vehicles to have solely plug-in electric drive motors and the 200,000-vehicle per manufacturer cap.

The $4,500 bonus credit to cars made by companies with unionized labor has also been removed.

Which basically means anyone who takes delivery of an imported EV or buys even a domestic luxury EV above the stated price caps starting Jan 2023 is likely screwed out of qualifying for Fed EV tax credits on a new vehicle.

 

[Tooney]

Which basically means anyone who takes delivery of an imported EV or buys even a domestic luxury EV above the stated price caps starting Jan 2023 is likely screwed out of qualifying for Fed EV tax credits on a new vehicle.

Based on what I read in the bill, you are correct. Also there are income caps on EV car buyers.
All this assumes that the text of the bill linked above is what gets enacted into law.

 

[bergs]

electrek has a good summary of whats in the bill.

https://electrek.co/2022/07/27/senate-moves-forward-ev-tax-credit-reform-tesla-tsla/

the "transition rule" implies if you have a signed binding contract before the bill is signed by the president, but take delivery in 2023, then it still can be counted under the old rules.

 

[Moto_Joe]

Is this one of those tax loopholes the rich get and I keep hearing the democrats run on about? Glad I bought an Etron while waiting on my ST GTS. Don’t think I’ll be able to get that before the new discriminatory rules go into place.

 

[Miwa]

There should’ve never been an incentive on any Porsche (or Tesla either)

 

[TDinDC]

Well, I guess it depends upon your perspective and primary goals.

If your primary goal is your own pocketbook, then this bill, assuming you own a Taycan, is bad for all of us.

If your primary goal instead is to reduce emissions, and you assume as true both that mass adoption of EVs will help achieve this goal and that resources (e.g., government spending/tax cutting) are limited, then this bill would be good for all of us no matter where you fall on the economic ladder because it will focus financial incentives on the segment of the market who is most likely to choose EVs only if they become more affordable.

I personally would have bought a Taycan even if there were no incentives. I would like to see more mass adoption by the lower segments of the market. And of course I'm a hypocrite and wish there were incentives for me personally, but if it is either or, then I'll sacrifice mine for the middle class.

 

[Prit]

Well, I guess it depends upon your perspective and primary goals.

If your primary goal is your own pocketbook, then this bill, assuming you own a Taycan, is bad for all of us.

If your primary goal instead is to reduce emissions, and you assume as true both that mass adoption of EVs will help achieve this goal and that resources (e.g., government spending/tax cutting) are limited, then this bill would be good for all of us no matter where you fall on the economic ladder because it will focus financial incentives on the segment of the market who is most likely to choose EVs only if they become more affordable.

I personally would have bought a Taycan even if there were no incentives. I would like to see more mass adoption by the lower segments of the market. And of course I'm a hypocrite and wish there were incentives for me personally, but if it is either or, then I'll sacrifice mine for the middle class.

I somewhat agree with you. My only difference in perspective is I don’t think the choices are mutually exclusive. You can want to protect the environment and help build the foundation to give the segment wings and accelerate adoption and the transition to sustainability. However, you can do so without feeling unrewarded when others are. Perhaps, you would have bought a 911 for the same share of your hard earned funds but you chose a Taycan for the former goal.

 

[TDinDC]

I somewhat agree with you. My only difference in perspective is I don’t think the choices are mutually exclusive. You can want to protect the environment and help build the foundation to give the segment wings and accelerate adoption and the transition to sustainability. However, you can do so without feeling unrewarded when others are. Perhaps, you would have bought a 911 for the same share of your hard earned funds but you chose a Taycan for the former goal.

Yes, many of us have multiple goals that are inconsistent. My comment was focusing on differences between primary goals.

I'm a fully flawed, non-partisan hypocrite. I both want to save the planet and race cars like I used to (and may soon begin again). I'm not completely pure of heart and unselfish, and I doubt many, if any, of us are. But when it comes to tax incentives, no matter how much I want them to benefit me, I understand that they may be put to better use elsewhere!

 

[whitex]

There should’ve never been an incentive on any Porsche (or Tesla either)

If there wasn't incentives, there may not have been a Taycan. The incentives is what pushed many people to buy Teslas when the rest of the industry was saying things like "Nobody will ever make any money selling EV's". Tesla proved that you can in fact make money on EV's, but it took incentives to get there. Many Tesla buyers stretched over 2x the price (after all the incentives) of their next most expensive car they ever purchased. For me personally I probably would not have tried EV's if it wasn't for the incentives, because in my mind it helped me offset the risk of a new, unproven technology. I would have bought another high powered ICE instead, which might have costed more than the Tesla, but the risk in my mind was less, residuals fairly well understood, etc.

Incentives do work, both ways btw. My state politicians are talking about proposing a new EV tax now, $0.25 per mile driven. If it passes, I will see it as an incentive to buy ICE cars (not a bad incentive, that is like getting FREE gasoline for life of the car as long as you average 20 miles per gallon and more assuming $5/gal price of gas, if I add the price of electricity for an EV and assume price of gas will settle lower than $5/gal, I can probably average 12 mpg and still come out ahead driving an ICE vs. EV). I should also be able to unload the EV's we own at a good price to states with more polluted air which care to reduce their pollution (Washington state DOT officially says that air pollution is not an issue at all for the state).

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