Infrastructure Bill passed. I don’t think this is good.

[Jhenson29]

Although the tax credit isn't a motivation for an EV,

How is it not? How is $7500 off of the price of the car not motivation? It’s an incentive to consider an EV instead of ICE.

It was a factor for us in determining whether to get another Panamera or the Taycan.

Oh, I get it, but just don't feel it is a major consideration for people considering a premium vehicle like a Porche.

Several people have commented that it was a factor and at least one person said they were canceling their order due to loss of the credit.

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[Jhenson29]

If price/performance were the major consideration we'd all be driving Tesla's

The alternative doesn’t have to be a Tesla. It can be an ICE Porsche.

 

[Mr.Smith]

How is it not? How is $7500 off of the price of the car not motivation? It’s an incentive to consider an EV instead of ICE.

It was a factor for us in determining whether to get another Panamera or the Taycan.


Several people have commented that it was a factor and at least one person said they were canceling their order due to loss of the credit.

I've had many EVs, with incentives being what nudged me into it.
I also factor it in to my upcoming acquisition

 

[kort]

The alternative doesn’t have to be a Tesla. It can be an ICE Porsche.

what incentive is there for an ICE Porsche?

 

[electric9925]

The BBB bill might not pass before years end. Also, someone mentioned it in another thread but the wording seems to be cars above 55k manufactured after Dec 31 2021 will no longer qualify. Even if you’re taking delivery in January your car would’ve been manufactured before January 1 2022, so something to consider. It’ll be interesting to see how Porsche reacts if it does pass before years end I imagine a lot of people buying the base version took the tax credit into consideration.

 

[Jhenson29]

what incentive is there for an ICE Porsche?

There isn’t one. At least not in the form of a tax credit, which is the scope of the thread and therefore (I assume), the scope of your question.

But I wasn’t making any points that suggested there were either, so I don’t understand why you’re asking.

My point was in response to someone else’s suggestion that the $7500 tax credit is not an incentive because, if price was a factor, people would just buy a Tesla. But I was arguing that the Porsche EV is also competing against ICE Porsches, so the $7500 can be an incentive to purchase a Porsche EV instead of a Porsche ICE.

There are two posts that I meant to be one. I meant to edit the first one to add the second and accidentally just posted it separately. But they’re right next to each other, so I didn’t fix it.

 

[wurzitup]

Does anybody know where some of the text (God help me) of the Bill can be read? If the wording is in fact "cars built before 12/31/21" like you stated someone mentioned, this may provide a clear cut way out to get the credit to those of us awaiting cars in the next couple months early next year. My production is next week-delivery January. I am going to hate like hell to miss out on it.
And if I can add to the discourse- some have expressed perplexion as to why this MSRP cap is being added, saying its counterintuitive. Much as I hate to admit it, someone buying a $120k car is much more likely to go ahead and do it anyways because they can afford it than someone buying a $50k Chevy. I would imagine as a whole, $7500 is a way bigger incentive on a $50k car than a premium car like a Taycan. I'm surprised some are missing this point. Much as I hate it, it's a better way to spread around tax incentives than on Porsches that are going to get bought anyways.
That being said I still hope I get it!

 

[cometguy]

Does anybody know where some of the text (God help me) of the Bill can be read?

Yes, the bill is available at the House website; it's very long.
I posted this on another thread here:
https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/my21-cross-turismo-further-delays.6848/page-10#post-105495

 

[Jhenson29]

I would imagine as a whole, $7500 is a way bigger incentive on a $50k car than a premium car like a Taycan. I'm surprised some are missing this point.

The fact that’s it’s a larger incentive doesn’t mean the incentive doesn’t exist on the more expensive car. There’s a reduction, but it doesn’t necessarily go away.

Much as I hate it, it's a better way to spread around tax incentives than on Porsches that are going to get bought anyways.

Maybe. We’d need some data to show that. We don’t know how many Taycans would be sold without the incentives. Maybe the same. Maybe less.

 

[wurzitup]

The fact that’s it’s a larger incentive doesn’t mean the incentive doesn’t exist on the more expensive car. There’s a reduction, but it doesn’t necessarily go away.


Maybe. We’d need some data to show that. We don’t know how many Taycans would be sold without the incentives. Maybe the same. Maybe less.

Well, we will never know, will we?
Would you agree that lower income people are incentivized more on cheaper cars than rich people on more expensive cars? I think this is the crux of the issue, yes?

Also- I just read the Bill verbiage, and it does say cars built AFTER 12/31/21, so I think I'm (we) are in the clear for another couple months at least!

 

[Jhenson29]

Well, we will never know, will we?

Probably not, so we probably shouldn’t make claims if we don’t actually know they’re true. That’s my point.

Would you agree that lower income people are incentivized more on cheaper cars than rich people on more expensive cars?

Yes. I just said that:

The fact that’s it’s a larger incentive

And I’ve said so in other posts as well.

I think this is the crux of the issue, yes?

No. Why would that be the case?

Also- I just read the Bill verbiage, and it does say cars built AFTER 12/31/21, so I think I'm (we) are in the clear for another couple months at least!

It makes sense there would be some kind of grace period. It seems it’s implemented as a manufacturer date.

 

[PanameraFrank]

Porsche will react by doing nothing. Why would they care? Every other luxury EV is also losing the $7,500 rebate so the playing field is still level.

Very few people were actually going to buy or not buy a Taycan or Etron GT based on getting a $7,500 tax rebate.

Now where Porsche MIGHT care is with the electric Macan. But the Taycan? The price isn't going anywhere but up, demand is high and supply is low.

 

[gnop1950]

Porsche will react by doing nothing. Why would they care? Every other luxury EV is also losing the $7,500 rebate so the playing field is still level.

Very few people were actually going to buy or not buy a Taycan or Etron GT based on getting a $7,500 tax rebate.

Now where Porsche MIGHT care is with the electric Macan. But the Taycan? The price isn't going anywhere but up, demand is high and supply is low.

I agree, and for me, personally, I've always wanted a Porsche, but was too "responsible". Once my wife and son talked me into it I decided on the Taycan since EVs are the future. It honestly never occurred to me that there would even be a tax incentive for a car in this price range. When the dealer told me there was one I was like, ok, I won't turn it down. But it was a non-factor in my decision.

Probably just as well since my delivery is scheduled for the first week in April next year

 

[fgwinn]

If the BBB legislation passes and the domestic and union EV credit remain as currently written, I suspect there will be foreign OEM retaliation, if a carve out cannot be negotiated. GM, Ford and Tesla will be slapped with some kind of tariff to level the playing field. It could be very difficult to consider a foreign made EV when you pay $12,500 more from the "get go".

Another interesting point is the BBB provides a non truck or van credit with an MSRP at or below $55,000. One wonders if the OEM will not lower the MSRP causing dealers sell for what the market will bear. The OEM could then lower various dealer incentives to compensate for the difference. More money is made by the dealer on factory rebates and incentives than on the gross per unit.

This is all speculation but when government policy interferes with markets, one has to think outside the box.

I think the manufacturers will lower MSRP and then sell more OTA features after title transfers. This won’t work for Taycan but it could for Macan.

 

[whitex]

If the BBB legislation passes and the domestic and union EV credit remain as currently written, I suspect there will be foreign OEM retaliation, if a carve out cannot be negotiated. GM, Ford and Tesla will be slapped with some kind of tariff to level the playing field. It could be very difficult to consider a foreign made EV when you pay $12,500 more from the "get go".

Another interesting point is the BBB provides a non truck or van credit with an MSRP at or below $55,000. One wonders if the OEM will not lower the MSRP causing dealers sell for what the market will bear. The OEM could then lower various dealer incentives to compensate for the difference. More money is made by the dealer on factory rebates and incentives than on the gross per unit.

This is all speculation but when government policy interferes with markets, one has to think outside the box.

Tesla already created such a compliance car in Canada priced at $44,999 to qualify for the "under $45K incentive". It is a Model 3 Standard Range but limited 151km (94 miles) of range, with 423km (263 miles) range available to unlock over-the-air for a price.
https://www.greencarreports.com/new...model-3-a-clever-workaround-or-silly-business

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