Infrastructure Bill passed. I don’t think this is good.

ciaranob

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What about the part dealing with the price of the Car? I’m not aware of any Taycan under $82,700 with no options.
+1

The wording would seem to exclude the Taycan based on price but perhaps I am missing something here? Also is the CT classified as an SUV (apologies as I think this has been discussed before on the forum) not that this would make any difference based on numbers below?

  • Federal tax credit for EVs jumps from $7,500 to $12,500
    • Keep the $7,500 incentive for new electric cars for 5 years
    • Add an additional $4,500 for EVs assembled in the US using union labor
    • Another $500 for EVs using battery packs with 50% of components (including cells) made in the US
  • Zero-emission vans, SUVs and trucks with MSRPs up to $80,000 qualify (increased from previous policy)
  • Electric sedans priced up to $55,000 MSRP qualify (stays the same)
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Spd_Tkt

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Since this thread has shifted to the stock market and financial advice, I thought I would point out that ChargePoint, EVGo and other EV charging infrastructure stocks jumped on the Infrastructure Bill. Have any of you seen what this means for Electrify America's charging network?

Thanks in advance for any insights you can offer.

Cheers
 

TYO

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I’m hoping Porsche pushes to deliver all US bound cars scheduled for Jan ‘22 within 2021 by delaying shipments to non US countries to get the capacity.
Production of my Taycan RWD 2021 was finally completed yesterday (11-07-2021) after it was ordered in May 2021. I hope I can take delivery by the end of December 2021 rather 1/14/2022.
 

mdrobc1213

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Production of my Taycan RWD 2021 was finally completed yesterday (11-07-2021) after it was ordered in May 2021. I hope I can take delivery by the end of December 2021 rather 1/14/2022.
There are no changes to the current EV tax credit in the new infrastructure bill that was passed by both houses and will be signed into law by Biden. Any of the changes being contemplated in this forum thread are all now pushed to the Build Back Better proposed legislation, which is certainly not close to being a done deal. And if the BBB deal did pass as currently written, the EV tax credit would be raised from the current $7,500 to $12,500, with the incremental $5,000 being available to manufacturers using union labor, while the underlying $7,500 would still be available for all other manufacturers, regardless of union or not or foreign or not. Moreover, the 200,000 cars sold limit that is in the current EV tax credit legislation (which Tesla has now exceeded and is not longer able to get for their customers) would be lifted, helping Tesla and GM, who has also exceeded the 200,000 car limit for their EV models.

So I don't know what everyone in this thread is complaining about with regard to the "union requirement". Even if it does survive the BBB final form, there would still be the same $7,500 credit for all other manufacturers. See the following summary:
  • Federal tax credit for EVs jumps from $7,500 to $12,500
    • Keep the $7,500 incentive for new electric cars for 5 years
    • Add an additional $4,500 for EVs assembled in the US using union labor
    • Another $500 for EVs using battery packs with 50% of components (including cells) made in the US
here is a link that explains this in more detail: https://electrek.co/2021/11/06/cong...ill-12500-ev-tax-credit-still-awaits-passage/
Yes and isn;'t it still stated this applies for all EV's manufactured after 12/31/2021? If so then those waiting for their cars technically should be okay. Also would think those negotiating this 2nd bill Build Back Better are aware of the logistical issues with supply and delivery/demand and do not want to kill of any surge and trend towards EVs that loss of credits would cause.
Production of my Taycan RWD 2021 was finally completed yesterday (11-07-2021) after it was ordered in May 2021. I hope I can take delivery by the end of December 2021 rather 1/14/2022.
Hopefully you'll get your car early but if not then do think they will finish the Build back better Bill in the next week or so and likely will take end of the month at least which is time for them to fix the EV provisions hopefully. If not then well I;'ll still take my car when delivered as the $7500 was going on my 2022 taxes anyway!
 
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There are no changes to the current EV tax credit in the new infrastructure bill that was passed by both houses and will be signed into law by Biden. Any of the changes being contemplated in this forum thread are all now pushed to the Build Back Better proposed legislation, which is certainly not close to being a done deal. And if the BBB deal did pass as currently written, the EV tax credit would be raised from the current $7,500 to $12,500, with the incremental $5,000 being available to manufacturers using union labor, while the underlying $7,500 would still be available for all other manufacturers, regardless of union or not or foreign or not. Moreover, the 200,000 cars sold limit that is in the current EV tax credit legislation (which Tesla has now exceeded and is not longer able to get for their customers) would be lifted, helping Tesla and GM, who has also exceeded the 200,000 car limit for their EV models.

So I don't know what everyone in this thread is complaining about with regard to the "union requirement". Even if it does survive the BBB final form, there would still be the same $7,500 credit for all other manufacturers. See the following summary:
  • Federal tax credit for EVs jumps from $7,500 to $12,500
    • Keep the $7,500 incentive for new electric cars for 5 years
    • Add an additional $4,500 for EVs assembled in the US using union labor
    • Another $500 for EVs using battery packs with 50% of components (including cells) made in the US
here is a link that explains this in more detail: https://electrek.co/2021/11/06/cong...ill-12500-ev-tax-credit-still-awaits-passage/
In the bill, I believe there is a section that sets MSRP limits, of which the max is $80k (for an SUV). This is what everyone is focused on. If we understand it correctly, the credit will only stay for vehicles that don’t exceed the respective limits of their category. Perhaps we are misunderstanding that piece. Can you clarify?
 


Bella

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Yes and isn;'t it still stated this applies for all EV's manufactured after 12/31/2021? If so then those waiting for their cars technically should be okay. Also would think those negotiating this 2nd bill Build Back Better are aware of the logistical issues with supply and delivery/demand and do not want to kill of any surge and trend towards EVs that loss of credits would cause.

Hopefully you'll get your car early but if not then do think they will finish the Build back better Bill in the next week or so and likely will take end of the month at least which is time for them to fix the EV provisions hopefully. If not then well I;'ll still take my car when delivered as the $7500 was going on my 2022 taxes anyway!
I was told ( by my Tax Accountant and someone else on the Forum was told the same thing) that the key is possession date. Meaning in my case my Vin number will show either 11/19 or 11/26 as the mfg date but possession date will be 1/28. My Dealership also confirmed this. I hope this is not correct and we will see what the final interpretation by the IRS is as soon as the bill passes. If the Bill were to get delayed maybe that changes. I would rather presume I’m not getting it and then be surprised. Do we have any Tax experts from the U.S. who would like to weigh in?
 

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I was told ( by my Tax Accountant and someone else on the Forum was told the same thing) that the key is possession date. Meaning in my case my Vin number will show either 11/19 or 11/26 as the mfg date but possession date will be 1/28. My Dealership also confirmed this. I hope this is not correct and we will see what the final interpretation by the IRS is as soon as the bill passes. If the Bill were to get delayed maybe that changes. I would rather presume I’m not getting it and then be surprised. Do we have any Tax experts from the U.S. who would like to weigh in?
the credit is established when YOU take delivery.
 

maddie

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Yes, I checked with my accountant too and it’s only possible once you take delivery (possession). That date being after the Dec 31 st will likely result is the loss of the EV credit. Current language in BBB doesn’t offer any support on luxury EVs.
 


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I was told ( by my Tax Accountant and someone else on the Forum was told the same thing) that the key is possession date. Meaning in my case my Vin number will show either 11/19 or 11/26 as the mfg date but possession date will be 1/28. My Dealership also confirmed this. I hope this is not correct and we will see what the final interpretation by the IRS is as soon as the bill passes. If the Bill were to get delayed maybe that changes. I would rather presume I’m not getting it and then be surprised. Do we have any Tax experts from the U.S. who would like to weigh in?
For tax credit in today's $7,500 form, you only provide delivery (possession) date to the IRS - they don't ask when the car was manufactured. You also cannot claim credit for manufacturing date year if your car was delivered subsequent year (i.e. car manufactured in December 2020, delivery Jan 2021, you cannot claim the credit for 2020 taxes). I had a race like that with one of my Teslas, they delivered a whole bunch of them 12/31 evening in the Q4 close race, but told us we get to claim credit one day earlier if we take it then instead of the next day.
 

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As I posted on another thread, Taycans built after 2021 Dec. 31 will no longer be eligible for the $7500 US federal tax credit if the BBB gets passed. Both the House and Senate have agreed that there will be an MSRP limit starting 2022 Jan. 1 for EVs that get the tax credit; the amount is not yet settled in stone, but it is very unlikely that sedans with MSRP > $55k will qualify, and at any rate, Taycans will NOT qualify (top rate currently in the House bill is $80k for SUVs or pickup trucks).
And, yes, the *current* tax-credit policy at IRS says that the tax credit applies when the owner takes delivery of the vehicle, but the wording in the House bill is more vague and might suggest a change to when the VIN number is created (i.e., the car is built) instead. Here's my break-down of the House bill as of a couple days ago:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/my21-cross-turismo-further-delays.6848/page-10#post-105495
 

dan

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Seems like there have been some developments on the proposed bill according to CNET:

“In other changes made last week in the House of Representatives, Democrats increased the price cap for qualifying EVs. The new language allows for vans, trucks and SUVs with a manufacturer's suggested retail price of up to $80,000 to qualify for the $12,500 credit. Previously, the initial framework set a limit of $64,000 for vans, $69,000 for SUVs and $74,000 for pickup trucks.

The Democrats also reduced income eligibility to claim the full credit. Single filers with adjusted gross annual incomes of $250,000 or more, or joint filers with AGIs of $500,000, will not be eligible for the full credit.”

Unsure what a partial credit would look like for people above the income thresholds they have defined. But any way you slice it, the Taycan will exceed the eligible price, even though it has been raised to 80k.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-house-bill-biden-refundable-cash/
 

whitex

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Seems like there have been some developments on the proposed bill according to CNET:

“In other changes made last week in the House of Representatives, Democrats increased the price cap for qualifying EVs. The new language allows for vans, trucks and SUVs with a manufacturer's suggested retail price of up to $80,000 to qualify for the $12,500 credit. Previously, the initial framework set a limit of $64,000 for vans, $69,000 for SUVs and $74,000 for pickup trucks.

The Democrats also reduced income eligibility to claim the full credit. Single filers with adjusted gross annual incomes of $250,000 or more, or joint filers with AGIs of $500,000, will not be eligible for the full credit.”

Unsure what a partial credit would look like for people above the income thresholds they have defined. But any way you slice it, the Taycan will exceed the eligible price, even though it has been raised to 80k.

https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/ev-tax-credit-house-bill-biden-refundable-cash/
I was just reading they also now included used EV's (more then 2 years old) in the rebate and since it is no longer a tax credit but a straight out government giveaway, I'm thinking I just need to pick up an old Leaf for each of my kids, and tell they they can just sell the Leafs to each and collect one rebate per sale. The only question is whether those rebates count as income, if it does, they have to stop the Leaf swapping before they reach the $250K a year each. If it doesn't count as income, I'm quitting my job and swapping as many old, cheap EV's as I can get my hands on - they need to be cheap so that the transaction costs like sales tax does not exceed the federal rebate. Gotta love politicians and their constant need to pander to their voters by making things so complex even they don't understand all the implications.
 
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TYO

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As I posted on another thread, Taycans built after 2021 Dec. 31 will no longer be eligible for the $7500 US federal tax credit if the BBB gets passed. Both the House and Senate have agreed that there will be an MSRP limit starting 2022 Jan. 1 for EVs that get the tax credit; the amount is not yet settled in stone, but it is very unlikely that sedans with MSRP > $55k will qualify, and at any rate, Taycans will NOT qualify (top rate currently in the House bill is $80k for SUVs or pickup trucks).
And, yes, the *current* tax-credit policy at IRS says that the tax credit applies when the owner takes delivery of the vehicle, but the wording in the House bill is more vague and might suggest a change to when the VIN number is created (i.e., the car is built) instead. Here's my break-down of the House bill as of a couple days ago:

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/my21-cross-turismo-further-delays.6848/page-10#post-105495
I truly hope that cars manufactured with a VIN by 12/31/2021 will benefit from the $7500 tax credit.
 

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I truly hope that cars manufactured with a VIN by 12/31/2021 will benefit from the $7500 tax credit.
currently under the current regulations the date of manufacture is irrelevant. it is the date that YOU take delivery that triggers when the credit can be claimed on your tax return
 

cometguy

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But any way you slice it, the Taycan will exceed the eligible price, even though it has been raised to 80k.
Online news stories (incl. CNET) often get many things wrong. Read the actual House bill. The Taycan is a sedan, and the limit on sedans seems fixed at $55k; $80k is for pickup trucks, as I recall. The point is that many other EV sedans, like the Mach-E GT, the Audi e-tron, and lots of the Teslas (incl. top version of Model 3) will be ineligible, also. I suspect that some automakers will try to adjust their MSRPs, especially for new vehicles coming out in the future, to fall under the new MSRP limits... Lots of cars may fall under the stated MSRP caps only if certain options are not taken...
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