Key Fob Cloned - Car Broken Into

gusone

Well-Known Member
First Name
gus
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Threads
21
Messages
595
Reaction score
621
Location
South East London
Vehicles
BMW Series 3 XDRIVE M SPORT
Country flag
Here's how it's done in the UK.
Range Rovers are very popular for it!

Happened to my neighbor over the road. My CCTV caught them in the dastardly act. Second time it was nicked in a couple of months. Second time never recovered so there will be an Albanian gangster cruising the streets in a black range rover sport.
Sponsored

 

gusone

Well-Known Member
First Name
gus
Joined
Sep 3, 2021
Threads
21
Messages
595
Reaction score
621
Location
South East London
Vehicles
BMW Series 3 XDRIVE M SPORT
Country flag
You really don't want to be confronting them (in the UK) if at all possible. Too many unknown unknowns.

You are at a major disadvantage on multiple fronts.

I would say the only people who should confront them are those trained to do so (ex special services etc).

I was senior boxing coach for many years and my instinct is to 'hit and not get hit'. Thousands and thousands of hours training how to knock someone out without them landing anything back.

But, in these instances it works completely against you.
They are not here to obey ABA rules.

However, you never know what you will do, as the adrenaline surge is huge.
A coutof months back in the SE London town I reside in and a gang turned up at 6pm to rip out a catalytic converter. What was concerning was the time and on the victim's camera a brute was standing by the door with a baseball bat. Thought that was quite brazen. Go outside at your own peril.
 

MTGBUK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
136
Reaction score
108
Location
UK
Vehicles
Audi SQ7, Turbo S CT (Received :)
Country flag
Two things to add with regards to relay theft.

Not sure about faraday boxes but over time faraday pouches FAIL!. Please routinely check them. Better to keep the keys in a pouch with the pouch in a biscuit tin.

This applies to most car manufacturers. Not having comfort access does not mean you are not at risk. Your car is still at risk if your car has keyless start. My neighbour to his cost found out the hard way. One night the scumbags took his steering wheel, screen and centre console on his M4. His car does not have comfort access. Any car where the key can communicate without having to press a physical button on the key would pose as a possible risk.
 

MTGBUK

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 4, 2021
Threads
4
Messages
136
Reaction score
108
Location
UK
Vehicles
Audi SQ7, Turbo S CT (Received :)
Country flag
A coutof months back in the SE London town I reside in and a gang turned up at 6pm to rip out a catalytic converter. What was concerning was the time and on the victim's camera a brute was standing by the door with a baseball bat. Thought that was quite brazen. Go outside at your own peril.
They are much more brazen than that. Not sure where it was but I saw a video where they stole one from a main dealer while it was open.
 

satchurator

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2021
Threads
42
Messages
634
Reaction score
600
Location
Massachussets, USA
Vehicles
MY22 CT4
Country flag
Not sure about faraday boxes but over time faraday pouches FAIL!.

Your car is still at risk if your car has keyless start.
Regarding faraday pouches, that’s a very blanket statement. Are you saying that for all manufacturers, all materials, and all methods of construction, all faraday pouches are guaranteed to fail within the lifetime of the owner?
I think it would be less absolute but more appropriate to merely suggest checking it works from time to time.

Regarding your second point, I think it’s another generalization. Are you referring to the Taycan specifically, or all cars? I made a similar ‘never say never’ point in an earlier post, but I would say that owners who have Comfort Access disabled or not optioned specifically on the Taycan are safe from the risk of a relay attack to unlock the car. And per the Thatchwell report linked earlier, clone and replay are already covered.
 


SteveGTS

Well-Known Member
First Name
Steve
Joined
May 21, 2022
Threads
17
Messages
228
Reaction score
254
Location
London
Vehicles
Tesla M3P, Taycan on order
Country flag
I'm on Nextdoor Wandsworth where I used to live. I get email notifications.

Literally every other week I see a notification email: another Range Rover stolen.

The M.O. is very well organised and runs to a playbook. The criminals seem to bypass keyless entry very easily. They then change the plates and park the car nearby for a few days.

They wait to see if there's a hidden tracker, otherwise if they know where people commonly place them, it's found and ripped out.

If the car is still parked up where they left it after a few days, off it goes to the continent, never to be seen again.

I would never option keyless entry on any JLR vehicle. Their wireless encryption seems woeful based on how many of their (luxury) vehicles are stolen.
Very true, I live in Southfields and 3 Range Rovers have gone from our street recently! One was found a mile away because of a tracker. Everyone has a hefty steering lock now which kind of negates the ease of access and probably doesn't stop the crooks for long.
 

f1eng

Well-Known Member
First Name
Frank
Joined
Aug 19, 2021
Threads
40
Messages
3,679
Reaction score
6,269
Location
Oxfordshire, UK
Vehicles
Taycan CT4S, Ferrari 355, Merc 500E, Prius PHV
Country flag
Two things to add with regards to relay theft.

Not sure about faraday boxes but over time faraday pouches FAIL!. Please routinely check them. Better to keep the keys in a pouch with the pouch in a biscuit tin.

This applies to most car manufacturers. Not having comfort access does not mean you are not at risk. Your car is still at risk if your car has keyless start. My neighbour to his cost found out the hard way. One night the scumbags took his steering wheel, screen and centre console on his M4. His car does not have comfort access. Any car where the key can communicate without having to press a physical button on the key would pose as a possible risk.
So the second and three quarters you may save having a smart key rather than a nice small light conventional key is massively outweighed by looking for a faraday cage and biscuit tin to put it in/ take it out of :facepalm:
 

TaycanHero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2022
Threads
14
Messages
984
Reaction score
907
Location
United Kingdom
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo (2023)
Country flag
So the second and three quarters you may save having a smart key rather than a nice small light conventional key is massively outweighed by looking for a faraday cage and biscuit tin to put it in/ take it out of :facepalm:
New Taycan option for MY 2024, Porsche Exclusive Manufaktur faraday key fob biscuit tin:

Porsche Taycan Key Fob Cloned - Car Broken Into 1659012521195



Price: £324
 


batteredhaddock

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
276
Reaction score
243
Location
Hertfordshire
Vehicles
Taycan Turbo CT since 8th April 22
Country flag
Regarding faraday pouches, that’s a very blanket statement. Are you saying that for all manufacturers, all materials, and all methods of construction, all faraday pouches are guaranteed to fail within the lifetime of the owner?
I think it would be less absolute but more appropriate to merely suggest checking it works from time to time.

Regarding your second point, I think it’s another generalization. Are you referring to the Taycan specifically, or all cars? I made a similar ‘never say never’ point in an earlier post, but I would say that owners who have Comfort Access disabled or not optioned specifically on the Taycan are safe from the risk of a relay attack to unlock the car. And per the Thatchwell report linked earlier, clone and replay are already covered.
I think the comment about owners not having comfort access still being at risk is technically correct but I'm with your sentiment. Anything can be hacked or stolen, security is about making the effort to do so not worth bothering with. Whilst I haven't seen any studies on the Taycan susceptibility with, or without, comfort access in respect to relay theft I'd be happy to bet that relay theft is a lot easier on a car with comfort access. Then of course there is the auto presenting of handles on a busy street which is a clear signifier of "come on lads..have at it".
 

kempez

Well-Known Member
First Name
Matt
Joined
Mar 24, 2022
Threads
18
Messages
731
Reaction score
895
Location
Hampshire, UK
Vehicles
Taycan Turbo ST, Volvo XC90 T8
Country flag
We keep our car keys in a faraday cage - it's just a box that means I can find my keys easily anyway ;) . It definitely works and still does after over 2 years of use. Proven by going outside and testing with the key in it and the key out of it out of it: today because I'm both sad and over security conscious 😲:CWL:
 

batteredhaddock

Well-Known Member
First Name
Alex
Joined
Sep 27, 2021
Threads
3
Messages
276
Reaction score
243
Location
Hertfordshire
Vehicles
Taycan Turbo CT since 8th April 22
Country flag
Very true, I live in Southfields and 3 Range Rovers have gone from our street recently! One was found a mile away because of a tracker. Everyone has a hefty steering lock now which kind of negates the ease of access and probably doesn't stop the crooks for long.
iPace was improved with UWB in the fob which I think has moved to the newer RR's I believe. That being said I know of ones that have been stolen but don't know if that was down to physical break in and ODB port shenanigans, physical key theft or some way around UWB comms (we all know that if something is worth stealing, they'll get it in the end).

Jaguar Land Rover models are the only cars immune to keyless entry attacks - JLR TeamTalk

That was from 2019 so if those Range Rovers were all new then they must have found that way around it or some other mechanism not related to relay theft?

Regardless, for any manufacturer all we can do is defense in depth. No comfort access, store your key in a faraday box at night (and well away from your car). Have the tracker fob and keep it separate. I do those things, though I think having to use a physical lock would probably be very last resort.
 

TaycanHero

Well-Known Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2022
Threads
14
Messages
984
Reaction score
907
Location
United Kingdom
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan GTS Sport Turismo (2023)
Country flag
iPace was improved with UWB in the fob which I think has moved to the newer RR's I believe. That being said I know of ones that have been stolen but don't know if that was down to physical break in and ODB port shenanigans, physical key theft or some way around UWB comms (we all know that if something is worth stealing, they'll get it in the end).

Jaguar Land Rover models are the only cars immune to keyless entry attacks - JLR TeamTalk

That was from 2019 so if those Range Rovers were all new then they must have found that way around it or some other mechanism not related to relay theft?

Regardless, for any manufacturer all we can do is defense in depth. No comfort access, store your key in a faraday box at night (and well away from your car). Have the tracker fob and keep it separate. I do those things, though I think having to use a physical lock would probably be very last resort.
That RR article didn't age well...

Really, this is the outcome of human nature. You will never eliminate crime. If someone wants to steal something, they will.

All technology does is alters how we interact with our environment.

With older cars, if someone wanted to steal it, they smashed the window to gain entry, then wired the car. Car stolen.

With newer cars, that same criminal uses a computer to gain entry, a computer to start the car. Car stolen.

It's nothing new, other than the interaction with your vehicle.
Sponsored

 
 




Top