Long term Taycan owners: Are you still enjoying the car every day? Does it still feel special?

WuffvonTrips

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Everybody knows Porsche is conservative about their numbers but these guys found 700+hp WITHOUT LC on a Turbo S:
That dyno test is Interesting. If (admittedly a pretty big IF!) I'm interpreting the chart and understanding the test method correctly, the car maintains a pretty constant maximum power (blue line) which has been measured at the wheels over a broad rev range. The red line is an estimate of motor power, which I assume is plotted by adding the green line (power lost overcoming friction) to the blue line. With an ICE, the green line would have been plotted by measuring the car decelerating, unbraked, in neutral. Presumably this part of the test was done with the Taycan shifted to Neutral- but does "neutral" in a Taycan enable a representative model of power loss between motor and wheels?

EDIT- I've now found a thread from 2020 that discusses power and torque plots for Turbo v Turbo S- I don't know the source of the data, but it is summarised "If you look at the small red dots I have put on the torque graph, you will see that the turbo S has approximately 6% more torque up to approximately 62kph. After 62KPH both the torque and horsepower seem to be identical between the two cars when not in launch control.

It seems that on the turbo S, in non launch mode, Porsche has elected to reduce the amount of torque from the rear motor in order to make up for the higher torque from the front motor, so that after 62KPH it is equal to the turbo."

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...en-not-using-launch-overboost.1735/post-22400
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BronxBomberMJ

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Seems overly positive from all the responses. So it doesn’t have anyone looking for something else to scratch the itch
I'll go against the grain here. I'm looking to trade out of my 22 4S, but I honestly don't think I was the target for the Taycan in the first place. I value tech over driving performance (coming from a Model S), but to add insult to injury, in my 12 months, 5k miles of ownership, it has been at the dealer for about 6-8 weeks of that time. (Door panel replacement due to unfixable rattles, numerous sensor & infotainment issues).

I'm looking to bump over to a Rivian R1S, more space, better tech, but obviously I'm losing out on the driving dynamics and stares that I love getting, moving away from Porsche.

With all of that said, I'd do it again in a heartbeat. It's a beast of a vehicle and still puts a smile on my face walking up to it daily. But again, I don't think I was the target Porsche driving fanatic that this car was designed for. But damn, it's sexy and can take corners better than anything I've ever driven. Will miss her!
 

feye

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Interesting, with my polarized Ray-Bans the HUD almost completely disappears.
That's why I don't like polarized sun glasses. If you wear them and tilt your head to either side enough, you suddenly can see the HUD. Buy other brand polarized but check before, if you can see the HUD. If you cannot find the right polarized glasses, buy none polarized.
 

feye

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The HUD on my BMW 640i was totally not visible when having polarized sunglasses on either. That's why I didnt option HUD on my Taycan cuz I feel it is practically useless, especially in California where there is barely a chance you don't wear shades while driving.
Have you tried non-polarized sun glasses?
 


Dee

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The red line is an estimate of motor power, which I assume is plotted by adding the green line (power lost overcoming friction) to the blue line.
On a dyno, torque is measured and power is calculated.

That's an interesting dyno plot you found there.
But something isn't right.
Without LC, The Turbo S has indeed more torque from the front motor but still the speed is the same as the Turbo which isn't correct.
If you would start accelerating with more torque in the beginning you should have more acceleration and therefore a higher speed, right?
That's just physics.
What do you think?
 

f1eng

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Point is, the Turbo S is quicker, not only due to LC.
In your opinion, never confirmed by Porsche. I am still unconvinced.

It is true full power isn't needed for long, I have probably only used full power even in my 4S for a few seconds in its life. It would be possible to use it other than launch control with suitable software but Porsche have never claimed to do so and they almost certainly would have were it true.
 


WuffvonTrips

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On a dyno, torque is measured and power is calculated.

That's an interesting dyno plot you found there.
But something isn't right.
Without LC, The Turbo S has indeed more torque from the front motor but still the speed is the same as the Turbo which isn't correct.
If you would start accelerating with more torque in the beginning you should have more acceleration and therefore a higher speed, right?
That's just physics.
What do you think?
I agree- unfortunately that poster hasn't been active for over a year, and although they look like ones published by Porsche, I've not yet managed to find them anywhere other than that post.
But yes, if we take them as accurate, I agree with your reasoning that the TS even without LC would have an initial advantage which it would carry through accelerating to any speed or distance.
To estimate that advantage, if we took the poster's estimate of +6% torque to 62kph, and IIRC a Turbo tested at 3.3s to 100kph without LC, does a crude calculation of 0.06 * 62 / 100 * 3.3 = 0.12 seconds seem plausible?
Certainly too subtle for my butt dyno to register, and acceleration from under 62kph wouldn't be a significant factor in lap times around a wide, fast track.
 
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f1eng

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That dyno test is Interesting. If (admittedly a pretty big IF!) I'm interpreting the chart and understanding the test method correctly, the car maintains a pretty constant maximum power (blue line) which has been measured at the wheels over a broad rev range. The red line is an estimate of motor power, which I assume is plotted by adding the green line (power lost overcoming friction) to the blue line. With an ICE, the green line would have been plotted by measuring the car decelerating, unbraked, in neutral. Presumably this part of the test was done with the Taycan shifted to Neutral- but does "neutral" in a Taycan enable a representative model of power loss between motor and wheels?

EDIT- I've now found a thread from 2020 that discusses power and torque plots for Turbo v Turbo S- I don't know the source of the data, but it is summarised "If you look at the small red dots I have put on the torque graph, you will see that the turbo S has approximately 6% more torque up to approximately 62kph. After 62KPH both the torque and horsepower seem to be identical between the two cars when not in launch control.

It seems that on the turbo S, in non launch mode, Porsche has elected to reduce the amount of torque from the rear motor in order to make up for the higher torque from the front motor, so that after 62KPH it is equal to the turbo."

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...en-not-using-launch-overboost.1735/post-22400
Pretty difficult to interpret dyno figures from an EV, particularly with my decades of experience of racing IC engines.
In reality it is the software, not the engine, which decides how much power to release and for how long.
Presumably a rolling road test will give the steady state power but not be capable of the instantaneously available boost power for a short time.
With an IC engine the power is pretty well fixed, one does see power droop with time as the temperature rises on mineral oils - synthetics much less - but basically it is a fixed torque curve giving a fixed power curve.

With an EV the torque curve can be set high for a while depending on the rate of heating of the motor and how hot you are prepared to let it get. You probably won't see that on a rolling road, too high an inertia.

Never forget it is the power that gives performance. ;)
 

Dee

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But yes, if we take them as accurate, I agree with your reasoning that the TS even without LC would have an initial advantage which it would carry through accelerating to any speed or distance.
I don't mean 0 to whatever speed but sprints from let's say 60 to whatever speed.
In that case the acceleration is also quicker due to the bigger converter hence the Turbo S is just quicker overall.
As said by F1eng, we don't know for how long the front inverter is delivering "600A" but imho long enough to be quicker overall, that was my point.
It's also visible in the graph and I think you can calculate the time the "600A" is active.
[Edit: looking at the graph again, I can't see where the power is going down, it seems the motor just reaches his max rpm just before 90km/h and looses torque due to it's limitations, just like the rear motor (just before it shifst to second gear) not due to reducing amps...]
 
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Dee

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Never forget it is the power that gives performance.
Yes, I remember your story about the question to new apprentices: what is more important: "power or torque?" 😁
I used this in several discussions, even before your story, that power makes torque and therefore performance.
Power is needed to maintain the torque.
Without power there's no torque.
Torque before power doesn't make sense, that just doesn't exist.
 
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WuffvonTrips

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I don't mean 0 to whatever speed but sprints from let's say 60 to whatever speed.
In that case the acceleration is also quicker due to the bigger converter hence the Turbo S is just quicker overall.
As said by F1eng, we don't know for how long the front inverter is delivering "600A" but imho long enough to be quicker overall, that was my point.
It's also visible in the graph and I think you can calculate the time the "600A" is active.
In which case we're back to lacking comparative performance data. All I have is from my experience- as a novice- at Silverstone International Circuit where, although my lap times were inconsistent (+/- 1.5 seconds on clear laps once I got comfortable), that was down to my inaccuracy hitting braking points and apexes- there was no apparent trend favouring either car. (I don't have the actual Sport Chrono data to share, I didn't download it as it was only intended for review between sessions).
 

f1eng

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In which case we're back to lacking comparative performance data. All I have is from my experience- as a novice- at Silverstone International Circuit where, although my lap times were inconsistent (+/- 1.5 seconds on clear laps once I got comfortable), that was down to my inaccuracy hitting braking points and apexes- there was no apparent trend favouring either car. (I don't have the actual Sport Chrono data to share, I didn't download it as it was only intended for review between sessions).
I am still quite sure if there was a difference other than launch control Porsche marketing would have used it their sales literature.
Some Turbo S owners will naturally be sure they have a quicker car!

Even fast lap comparisons at a circuit have quite a bit of variability potential to cloud conclusions.

Porsche have good data, the rest of us do not and won't have IMHO.

Anyway so far I have never felt my 4S hasn't got enough power whilst driving it - so I am content :)
 

Dee

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Some Turbo S owners will naturally be sure they have a quicker car!
Of course!
We have to justify the insanely high price!
Just kidding, it's just nice to have, no need to have. 😉
On the other hand, Turbo owners must have an excuse to not buy the Turbo S! (not because it's more expensive...no, not at all...lol!)

Anyway so far I have never felt my 4S hasn't got enough power whilst driving it - so I am content :)
There's no such thing as "enough power".
Just not enough traction. 🤭

And yes, were talking milliseconds here but overall I'm quite satisfied by the power of my car too.
It's just becoming ridiculous, over 13.000Nm of torque...........in a road car, lol!!
Hurray for electric motors!
And hurray for Porsche making these ridiculous appliances, and hurray for that gearbox, withstanding all that torque...🥳
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