Malfunctioning Charge Port

[Mr Hockey]

Hard to imagine but our CCS port failed on a two week old car while we were on a road trip over the weekend. First - after almost three hours of Porsche roadside ‘assistance’ which was pretty limited and not helpful with zero follow up, we were stuck in rural GA about four hours from home.

We were forced to limp home over the next two days using very slow charge options since electrify America stations did not have J-1772 units. With only CCS Combo plugs at their 50 & 150kwh stations we we’re screwed. Could only find other stations which would charge at about 5 minutes per mile.

we have several comments / questions.

- Is there a combo to J1772 adaptor which can allow the driver side port to be used in situations like this ?

- We just purchased a Tesla tap adaptor 80A - what is the best we can expect in terms of charging at a Tesla station in the event we need to use the J1772 port ?

- is there a reason the driver side port does not accept a CCS Combo style connector for the L2 charging stations ? It’s a bit theoretical but if the driver side port had been that Combo format then could we have charged at the 50/150kwh stations using the driver side port ? Sure Would have helped us this weekend.

-we’ve had zero help or follow through from Porsche itself. Weate Utterly disappointed here. Our Lexus and Mercedes service has been superior historically in every way thus far. We like the dealer / sales person who we ended up calling on a Sat eve and who followed up with us yesterday but even they haven’t had any luck getting Porsche to own this. Best suggestion is asking me to call Porsche yet again to open a complaint ticket. I’m utterly disappointed not to mention a lost week and inconvenience on so many levels.

suggestions and answers welcome.

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[kort]

porsche roadside is outsourced and they have zero technical expertise.
porsche customer care is a black hole where complaints and issues are sent to die.

what happened? did the port door fail to open? or was it a fail to charge incident where the EA chargers failed to connect with the car?

as for using a tesla adaptor, it is still level 2 so it won't offer faster charging.

 

[atebit]

Your TeslaTap is rated for 80A, so it’s capable of supporting up to a 19.2kWh charge rate. To realize that rate the car must’ve been optioned with the 19.2kW onboard charger.

Finally, you must also be lucky enough the find a Tesla Destination EVSE that’s even capable of delivering 80A. That requires a minimum 100A branch circuit, which the destination location may not be capable of/interested in providing. So a particular Destination EVSE might only deliver say, 40A.

The TeslaTap only works with Tesla AC EVSE stations, it does not work with DC Supercharger stations.

 

[KTC]

Could you elaborate more on what happened?

There should be plenty of other-brand J1772 public and private chargers if you're in a place with Electrify America. Worst case, the Porsche mobile charger can plug into a NEMA14-50 and give you about 20 miles per hour.

If it was the DC door that was stuck (do you have the power charge port?), there is a tool to pry it open.

 

[Mr Hockey]

porsche roadside is outsourced and they have zero technical expertise.
porsche customer care is a black hole where complaints and issues are sent to die.

what happened? did the port door fail to open? or was it a fail to charge incident where the EA chargers failed to connect with the car?

as for using a tesla adaptor, it is still level 2 so it won't offer faster charging.

Thanks for the reply - I figured the

porsche roadside is outsourced and they have zero technical expertise.
porsche customer care is a black hole where complaints and issues are sent to die.

what happened? did the port door fail to open? or was it a fail to charge incident where the EA chargers failed to connect with the car?

as for using a tesla adaptor, it is still level 2 so it won't offer faster charging.

I figured the roadside assistance was outsourced especially when the person didn’t have a clue what they were discussing. They did try to assist but we’d have been better off if they hadn’t tried. They wanted to tow us to Tallahassee or Jacksonville, both in the wrong direction. To tow us back to Tampa would have exceeded the mileage allowance and they wanted $500 to do so. I asked them to cover that instead of their concierge service which would have paid even more to tow the car, return it to us, get us home and more. Could not get anyone at Porsche to do a field level audible and accommodate us considering it would be the least expensive option for them. After 90 minutes of wasted time, they transferred us to two other people the second of which disconnected. No one returned the call or followed up. Truly amazing given the kind of service we should expect at this price point.

not yet sure what the malfunction is - just know we get anerror message saying the right port is inoperable and consult the owners manual - we can’t find anything in the owners manual covering that fault message.

 

[Mr Hockey]

porsche roadside is outsourced and they have zero technical expertise.
porsche customer care is a black hole where complaints and issues are sent to die.

what happened? did the port door fail to open? or was it a fail to charge incident where the EA chargers failed to connect with the car?

as for using a tesla adaptor, it is still level 2 so it won't offer faster charging.

Thanks - I have to assume level 2 would be better than what we could find which charged at 1 mile per five minutes. Also had one hell of a time finding J1772 plug charging stations but it’s clear why Tesla loses so much money - there are Tesla chargers everywhere. Having the adaptor would have saved us some headaches. Also, now back at Tampa there aren’t electrify America stations anywhere within reasonable driving distances so in an emergency I can do something at a Tesla station. Normally wouldn’t be an issue but folks are dead in the water if the right charging port dies and you’re not near your home charging station.

 

[KTC]

Not sure if this would have helped, but:
https://cdn2.hubspot.net/hubfs/2932510/2020_PorscheTaycan_ChargeDoorRemoval_Tipsheet_V4.pdf

There's also a recall campaign earlier to replace a wiring harness for the charge ports due to intermittent connection issues... WLK2? See here: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/charging-port-impaired.4957/

 

[daveo4EV]

yeah I’m not sure you’re understanding the charging situation.

there are two types of Tesla charging stations.

• Tesla Supercharger are DCFast charging stations that charge at 72 kW, 150 kW, or 250 kW - yes there are a lot of these - but they are _NOT_ accessable or functional for a Taycan (or any non-Tesla) even with a Tesla Tap.
• Tesla L2 charging stations which are no better or no worse than any other L2 charging station - TeslaTap will let you use these types of stations. Maximum charge rate with these stations is limited by your Taycan to 240 volts @ 48 amps - or 11 kW - that’s about 30 miles of driving range per-hour of charging - however not all Tesla L2 chargers are 48 amp or more - some are less - so your actual charge rate will vary widely depending on what the local business owner has provisioned for their Tesla stations.

when you don’t have access to DCFast charging - charge rates are going to drop down to slow pretty quickly and there are few if any options other than a flat bed from a pure time savings point of view and getting the charge port repaired.

 

[kort]

Thanks - I have to assume level 2 would be better than what we could find which charged at 1 mile per five minutes. Also had one hell of a time finding J1772 plug charging stations but it’s clear why Tesla loses so much money - there are Tesla chargers everywhere. Having the adaptor would have saved us some headaches. Also, now back at Tampa there aren’t electrify America stations anywhere within reasonable driving distances so in an emergency I can do something at a Tesla station. Normally wouldn’t be an issue but folks are dead in the water if the right charging port dies and you’re not near your home charging station.

for future reference download to your phone, plugshare, chargpoint, evgo, chargehub, and for FL FPLevolution. all these apps will direct you to nearby chargers

 

[Mr Hockey]

You’re TeslaTap is rated for 80A, so it’s capable of supporting up to a 19.2kWh charge rate. To realize that rate the car must’ve been optioned with the 19.2kW onboard charger.

Finally, you must also be lucky enough the find a Tesla Destination EVSE that’s been capable of delivering 80A. That requires a minimum 100A branch circuit, which the destination location may not be capable of/interested in providing. So a particular Destination EVSE might only deliver say, 40A.

The TeslaTap only works with Tesla AC EVSE stations, it does not work with DC Supercharger stations.

Thanks - I overbought in terms of capacity. Never know what’s coming down the pike. We’re going over on the in home charging station as well by over wiring the circuit in case we get other cars that can take the extra load.

we do realize the Tesla high capacity stations won’t work with the taycan.

my understanding is that the max L2 load the taycan can handle is 48A which is a bit higher than the Porsche mobile charger and we do have the higher performance battery

 

[Mr Hockey]

Thanks - I overbought in terms of capacity. Never know what’s coming down the pike. We’re going over on the in home charging station as well by over wiring the circuit in case we get other cars that can take the extra load.

we do realize the Tesla high capacity stations won’t work with the taycan.

my understanding is that the max L2 load the taycan can handle is 48A which is a bit higher than the Porsche mobile charger and we do have the higher performance battery

Also, I’m curious about how to understand the kWh vs Amperage in the case of the taycan. I’ve read the max L2 charge it can handle is 11 kWh and that would require 48A. I’m unsure of how to understand the 19 kWh option.

 

[daveo4EV]

Also, I’m curious about how to understand the kWh vs Amperage in the case of the taycan. I’ve read the max L2 charge it can handle is 11 kWh and that would require 48A (60 amp breaker). I’m unsure of how to understand the 19 kWh option (100 amp breaker).

apologies - my corrections to your quote above in purple

the speed or "rate" of charge is measured in kW (kilowatts) not kWh (kilowatt-hours) - the Taycan's standard onboard charger (L2 AC/DC converter) is capable of charging at a rate of 11 kW - if you charge at that rate for 1 hour you will be billed by your electric company for 11 kWh of power - if you charge at this rate for 1/2 an hour - you will be billed for 5.5 kWh from your power company.

kWh = rate of charge (kW) * time (hours or fractions of hours)

1 kW * 2 hours = 2 kWh (microwave running for 2 hours)
9.6 kW * 4 hours = 38.4 kWh (running the Porsche PMCC for 4 hours on a NEMA 14-50 plug)

Porsche offers an optional 19.2 kW charger from the factory. Adding this onboard charger to your build will allow the Taycan to charge at a maximum rate of 19.2 kW _IF_ you encounter a rare 100/80 amp L2 EV charger (or install one in your home). Charging at this rate for 1 hour will yield 19.2 kWh billed on your power bill from your electric company.

watts = volts * amps

• 9.6 kW is 240 volts * 40 amps (240 * 40 = 9,600 watts or 9.6 kW) - 50 amp breaker required
• 11 kW is 240 volts * 48 amp (240 * 48 = 11,520 watts or 11.52 kW) - 60 amp breaker required
• 19.2 kW is 240 volts * 80 amps (240 * 80 = 19,200 watts or 19.2 kW) - 100 amp breaker required

to charge at those rates you have to increase the breaker size (as noted in orange) & wire gauge by 25% from the charge rate (48 amps requires 60 amp breaker and wire for building code safety, etc…)

if you charge your Taycan for 1 hour @ 9.6 kW (kilowatts) - you have delivered 9.6 kWh (kilowatt hours) to the vehicle - slightly less to the battery due to AC/DC conversion losses, charging losses, heat, and overhead…

according to in car display my Taycan charges the battery at about 8.86 kW from my 9.6 kW charger - so in one hour of charging @ 9.6 kW - I will add 8.86 kWh to the battery for driving - but I will be billed by PG&E for 9.6 kWh @ $0.1456/kWh - or $1.39 for one hour of charging my Taycan.

• 40 amp charge rate requires a 50 amp breaker & appropriate wire gauge for 50 amps of AC 240 volt current - 8 or 6 gauge write according to table below
• 48 amp charge rate requires a 60 amp breaker & appropriate wire gauge for 60 amps of AC 240 volt current - 6 or 4 gauge wire according to the table below
• 80 amp charge rate requires a 100 amp breaker & appropriate wire gauge for 100 amps of AC 240 volt current - 3 gauge wire according to the table below

​

the "upsized" breaker and wire is because EVSE's (EV chargers) are considered "continuous use appliance" (any appliance that can use "max rated power" for 2 hours or more with no pause) - so to avoid the wire failing and overheating you can only run them at 80% of the rated load for wire/breaker…

the 19.2 kW option requires that you "option" the 19.2 kW charger when you build the Taycan - and it then requires you to install/provide a 100 amp EVSE to take advantage of the 19.2 kW charger you paid for - ClipperCreek makes an 100 amp EVSE - ClipperCreek CS-100 - and then you need an appropriate circuit installed by your electrician to run the CS-100 - and then and only then will you charge at 19.2 kW.

I hope this answers your question.


The Taycan's 11 kW L2 AC charging rate is documented as the standard maximum charge rate for the ROW (rest of the world) - the North American market is the _ONLY_ market where Porsche asserts 9.6 kW is the maximum charge rate - but it is reasonable speculation they are not shipping special/different hardware in North American - and experience bears this out. While Porsche's official specs for Taycan documents 9.6 kW, in practice and in the wild when presented with a 48 amp charger the Taycan happily charges at 11 kW - so the North American Taycan contain the same 11 kW charger they provision for all the other non-North American Taycan's.


Why does Porsche lowball the Taycan's charge rate for North America?

No one really knows, but I believe it's to simplify the message. 9.6 kW is the maximum charge rate you can have in North America and still have the EV charger (EVSE) be "pluggable". 240 volts @ 50 amps (NEMA 14-50/6-50) plugs are the highest AMP plugs covered by most/any North American building codes - if your appliance or device requires more than 50 amps - you are forced by building codes to hardwire the device which would no longer make it mobile. The PMC+/PMCC have "Mobile" in their product name - if they provided more than 9.6 kW charge rate they would no longer be mobile. So given that the only charger Porsche ships in North America is limited to 9.6 kW - it's a fairly confusing message to document the vehicle's maximum charge rate at 11 kW and then say but we only provide a 9.6 kW charger and you'll have to elsewhere if you want to maximize your EV's charge rate - not good customer service. But this paragraph is pure speculation on my part.

the Taycan's maximum charge rate is actually 270 kW via FastDC charger at 800 volts DC (not AC) - so the maximum L2 240v charge rate of 11/19.2 kW as you can see pails in comparison to maximum 800V DC charge rate - in Europe/ROW the Taycan's maximum L2 charge rate is 22 kW - it's reasonable speculation that the 19.2 kW charger in North America _IS_ the 22 kW charger shipped world wide - but North American J-1772 SAE EV charging standard only covers up to 100/80 amp @ 240 volts - 19.2 kW - 22 kW charge rate in North America would require a 92 amp Charge rate or a 115 amp breaker @ 240 volts - there are no J-1772 chargers for 91 amps (115 amp breaker) and the documented North American J-1772 SAE EV charging standard doesn't cover anything beyond 100/80 amps - so instead of 22 kW being the maximum L2 charge rate - 19.2 kW is the documented maximum - it's reasonable to assume North American Taycan's contain the 22 kW charger same as europe when optioned - but North America lacks any L2 chargers that will delivery 22 kW.

 

[daveo4EV]

this post might help

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...age…for-those-that-wish-to-over-do-it-….2343/

 

[Mr Hockey]

apologies - my corrections to your quote above in purple

the speed or "rate" of charge is measured in kW (kilowatts) not kWh (kilowatt-hours) - the Taycan's standard onboard charger (L2 AC/DC converter) is capable of charging at a rate of 11 kW - if you charge at that rate for 1 hour you will be billed by your electric company for 11 kWh of power - if you charge at this rate for 1/2 an hour - you will be billed for 5.5 kWh from your power company.

kWh = rate of charge (kW) * time (hours or fractions of hours)

1 kW * 2 hours = 2 kWh (microwave running for 2 hours)
9.6 kW * 4 hours = 38.4 kWh (running the Porsche PMCC for 4 hours on a NEMA 14-50 plug)

Porsche offers an optional 19.2 kW charger from the factory. Adding this onboard charger to your build will allow the Taycan to charge at a maximum rate of 19.2 kW _IF_ you encounter a rare 100/80 amp L2 EV charger (or install one in your home). Charging at this rate for 1 hour will yield 19.2 kWh billed on your power bill from your electric company.

watts = volts * amps

• 9.6 kW is 240 volts * 40 amps (240 * 40 = 9,600 watts or 9.6 kW) - 50 amp breaker required
• 11 kW is 240 volts * 48 amp (240 * 48 = 11,520 watts or 11.52 kW) - 60 amp breaker required
• 19.2 kW is 240 volts * 80 amps (240 * 80 = 19,200 watts or 19.2 kW) - 100 amp breaker required

to charge at those rates you have to increase the breaker size (as noted in orange) & wire gauge by 25% from the charge rate (48 amps requires 60 amp breaker and wire for building code safety, etc…)

if you charge your Taycan for 1 hour @ 9.6 kW (kilowatts) - you have delivered 9.6 kWh (kilowatt hours) to the vehicle - slightly less to the battery due to AC/DC conversion losses, charging losses, heat, and overhead…

according to in car display my Taycan charges the battery at about 8.86 kW from my 9.6 kW charger - so in one hour of charging @ 9.6 kW - I will add 8.86 kWh to the battery for driving - but I will be billed by PG&E for 9.6 kWh @ $0.1456/kWh - or $1.39 for one hour of charging my Taycan.

• 40 amp charge rate requires a 50 amp breaker & appropriate wire gauge for 50 amps of AC 240 volt current - 8 or 6 gauge write according to table below
• 48 amp charge rate requires a 60 amp breaker & appropriate wire gauge for 60 amps of AC 240 volt current - 6 or 4 gauge wire according to the table below
• 80 amp charge rate requires a 100 amp breaker & appropriate wire gauge for 100 amps of AC 240 volt current - 3 gauge wire according to the table below

​

the "upsized" breaker and wire is because EVSE's (EV chargers) are considered "continuous use appliance" (any appliance that can use "max rated power" for 2 hours or more with no pause) - so to avoid the wire failing and overheating you can only run them at 80% of the rated load for wire/breaker…

the 19.2 kW option requires that you "option" the 19.2 kW charger when you build the Taycan - and it then requires you to install/provide a 100 amp EVSE to take advantage of the 19.2 kW charger you paid for - ClipperCreek makes an 100 amp EVSE - ClipperCreek CS-100 - and then you need an appropriate circuit installed by your electrician to run the CS-100 - and then and only then will you charge at 19.2 kW.

I hope this answers your question.


The Taycan's 11 kW L2 AC charging rate is documented as the standard maximum charge rate for the ROW (rest of the world) - the North American market is the _ONLY_ market where Porsche asserts 9.6 kW is the maximum charge rate - but it is reasonable speculation they are not shipping special/different hardware in North American - and experience bears this out. While Porsche's official specs for Taycan documents 9.6 kW, in practice and in the wild when presented with a 48 amp charger the Taycan happily charges at 11 kW - so the North American Taycan contain the same 11 kW charger they provision for all the other non-North American Taycan's.


Why does Porsche lowball the Taycan's charge rate for North America?

No one really knows, but I believe it's to simplify the message. 9.6 kW is the maximum charge rate you can have in North America and still have the EV charger (EVSE) be "pluggable". 240 volts @ 50 amps (NEMA 14-50/6-50) plugs are the highest AMP plugs covered by most/any North American building codes - if your appliance or device requires more than 50 amps - you are forced by building codes to hardwire the device which would no longer make it mobile. The PMC+/PMCC have "Mobile" in their product name - if they provided more than 9.6 kW charge rate they would no longer be mobile. So given that the only charger Porsche ships in North America is limited to 9.6 kW - it's a fairly confusing message to document the vehicle's maximum charge rate at 11 kW and then say but we only provide a 9.6 kW charger and you'll have to elsewhere if you want to maximize your EV's charge rate - not good customer service. But this paragraph is pure speculation on my part.

the Taycan's maximum charge rate is actually 270 kW via FastDC charger at 800 volts DC (not AC) - so the maximum L2 240v charge rate of 11/19.2 kW as you can see pails in comparison to maximum 800V DC charge rate - in Europe/ROW the Taycan's maximum L2 charge rate is 22 kW - it's reasonable speculation that the 19.2 kW charger in North America _IS_ the 22 kW charger shipped world wide - but North American J-1772 SAE EV charging standard only covers up to 100/80 amp @ 240 volts - 19.2 kW - 22 kW charge rate in North America would require a 92 amp Charge rate or a 115 amp breaker @ 240 volts - there are no J-1772 chargers for 91 amps (115 amp breaker) and the documented North American J-1772 SAE EV charging standard doesn't cover anything beyond 100/80 amps - so instead of 22 kW being the maximum L2 charge rate - 19.2 kW is the documented maximum - it's reasonable to assume North American Taycan's contain the 22 kW charger same as europe when optioned - but North America lacks any L2 chargers that will delivery 22 kW.

thanks - appreciate the information. Interestingly, I spoke to Clipper Creek today about a charger for our second home. They were adamant that the Taycan cannot charge at the 11kw rate and their 50A charger is overkill and (my words - effectively useless) for a Taycan. They said multiple times that the Taycan's ability to charge at the higher rate is unproven. I don't mind spending a little more for the higher capacity considering we may purchase other cars at some point which could potentially accept a higher charge rate but it surprised me that Clipper Creek was actively discouraging an upsell.

 

[Mr Hockey]

Could you elaborate more on what happened?

There should be plenty of other-brand J1772 public and private chargers if you're in a place with Electrify America. Worst case, the Porsche mobile charger can plug into a NEMA14-50 and give you about 20 miles per hour.

If it was the DC door that was stuck (do you have the power charge port?), there is a tool to pry it open.

not sure I responded - the issue was with the port itself. The CCS/Combo port would not work with any option. Just got error messages and even once the entire car's electronics acted up triggering the alarm and a few other things. The J-1772 chargers we found (hotel and one at a whole foods) would only charge on the driver side port at .2 miles / minute (5 minutes per mile) which is excruciating.

We got the car over to the dealer yesterday and they found all the error codes but thought they were more related to errors in the charging station and the port now works again. Very odd because it would not work at multiple electrify america stations or other charging stations.

We don't yet even have our home charger installed (the car is that new) so we were stuck. I did try out a neighbor's clipper creek 80A station and the car does charge at .4 miles per minute so double what the hotel and others charged at.

Have to see how this plays out because the dealer can't determine why all the failed charging attempts at multiple stations.

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