Mercedes EQE looks better than EQS

[riburn3]

Their SUV's don't look bad at all. If they hit 300 miles of actual range and can charge quickly, they are going to be huge winners.

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[Sabreliner]

What @Tsingtao said.

The minute the wagon version comes out, I'll be done with gasoline forever.

AMG wagon with 350 mile range would have my attention, unless Porsche comes out with a Sport Tourismo with improved range. Would definitely be interested in getting rid of my SUV for road trips, but I need the range and room.

Back to the original post... agree it does look better. Still feels like their chase for optimal aerodynamics will lead to Prius looking vehicles.

 

[JimBob]

It reminds me of the CLS. I imagine that it’s shaped this way to get the lowest coefficient of drag.

Seeking the lowest coefficient of drag tends to yield cars that look somewhat Tesla like. The Taycan has avoided this with its own unique look.

 

[Mr.Smith]

Seeking the lowest coefficient of drag tends to yield cars that look somewhat Tesla like. The Taycan has avoided this with its own unique look.

Taycan with a CD = 0.22 is pretty good without compromising aesthetics. Thats engineering

 

[DrT]

The shape of EQE/EQS that reminds of Prius or Civic is something totally turn-off for me. The interior looks very nice. It's a shame that they made the exterior so underwhelming.

 

[feye]

Taycan with a CD = 0.22 is pretty good without compromising aesthetics. Thats engineering

Totally agree, but who knows what the battery future brings. Making super efficient EVs (everybody now has to more or less copy them) could be a real sales argument for many years to come.

 

[Kingske]

FWIW: a recent comparative test between the Lucid Air and the Mercedes EQS, in favor of the Air.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/...s-electric-luxury-car-comparison-test-review/

 

[feye]

FWIW: a recent comparative test between the Lucid Air and the Mercedes EQS, in favor of the Air.

https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/...s-electric-luxury-car-comparison-test-review/

EPA range ratings, again???

And what happens a few years down the line with quality and service?

 

[fullmetalbaal]

The interior is a big bet on the screen and the software. I've yet to see an MB car with decent software... so this will be interesting. (I've owned more than one, and I really liked them for a lot of reasons, but software was never one of them). I'm also not fond of those stupid blue led lines. Looks like cheap electronics displays at Sim Lim Square.

The outside looks better than EQS in my opinion, but that's a low bar. There seems to be a gap between the hood and the front. Not sure if that is intentional or just looks like that in the videos.

Overall, nothing horrible. But also nothing exciting, nothing new, nothing distinctive/differentiated.

Taycan, Air, Model S are each IMHO a substantially better choice depending on what you're looking for.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

EPA range ratings, again???

And what happens a few years down the line with quality and service?

Well, here in the PNW Lucid service can't possibly be worse than car dealers we have here. I would take my chances.

(Not interested in the Air for other reasons, but that wouldn't be the reason I'd stay away from an Air)

 

[feye]

The interior is a big bet on the screen and the software. I've yet to see an MB car with decent software... so this will be interesting. (I've owned more than one, and I really liked them for a lot of reasons, but software was never one of them).

One EV reviewer in German is saying the software is the best of any EV he has ever used. Navi, route planning, charger filter, selecting chargers en route, speed sign recognition, also level 3 autonomous driving in certain conditions, now legally possible in Germany.

How well it works in the US, well...

 

[fullmetalbaal]

One EV reviewer in German is saying the software is the best of any EV he has ever used. Navi, route planning, charger filter, selecting chargers en route, speed sign recognition, also level 3 autonomous driving in certain conditions, now legally possible in Germany.

How well it works in the US, well...

Do you have a link?

Though I suspect I'll have to wait and see. I've seen sooo many reviews in Germany lauding the new version of BMWs, MBs or Audi's systems .... They must be looking for something completely different, or just very biased to report positively. The nav systems in those cars have been uniformly horrible, their speech recognition barely usable.

I spent over 5 years in this area professionally, so perhaps I'm too picky.

My bet is, Lucid and Rivian are both going to ace what the Germans have been stumbling over... I think it's a consequence of the German OEMs all outsourcing almost the full stack, and now trying to retrofit a software org into a large company.

 

[feye]

Do you have a link?

Though I suspect I'll have to wait and see. I've seen sooo many reviews in Germany lauding the new version of BMWs, MBs or Audi's systems .... They must be looking for something completely different, or just very biased to report positively. The nav systems in those cars have been uniformly horrible, their speech recognition barely usable.

I spent over 5 years in this area professionally, so perhaps I'm too picky.

My bet is, Lucid and Rivian are both going to ace what the Germans have been stumbling over... I think it's a consequence of the German OEMs all outsourcing almost the full stack, and now trying to retrofit a software org into a large company.

This is his channel.

Maybe you know much more, than I do. But what I gathered is, that all these German companies understand how important the software is and stepped up their game in recent years a lot - including Porsche.

I think really need to test drive and also play with the software a bit to see, how it works...

 

[fullmetalbaal]

This is his channel.

Maybe you know much more, than I do. But what I gathered is, that all these German companies understand how important the software is and stepped up their game in recent years a lot - including Porsche.

I think really need to test drive and also play with the software a bit to see, how it works...

Thanks for the link, looks like some interesting content!

Wish I shared your optimism.
So far I've seen a lot of loud statements, but IMHO these usually just showed how little they understand:

They all have grand plans to hire 10,000+ software engineers. This is not the salt mines. They don't need thousands of workers. They need to start with the right set of ~600. And part of what they claim to be working on (we're writing our own OS!) makes no sense. Or maybe they are just saying random shit to the press to impress investors and analysts.

When they talk about the future journey, they are all focused on the higher margins that software provides, focusing on the profit contribution potential - instead of the fact that all new differentiated features are likely to be software, or that the user journeys today start before you are in the car, and end after you leave the car... etc. I think they are mostly impressed by what Tesla's IP does for their BOM, vs truly understanding that car experiences are increasingly software-influenced or even defined.

When you look at what they offer compensation-wise vs. Silicon Valley, it's a complete joke. Top developers in the valley make more money than the best paid execs in Stuttgart/Zuffenhausen/Munchen. They are going to have an interesting time hiring the best of the best. Poaching people from there to US high tech is like shooting fish in a barrel.

It's going to get interesting when/if Apple gets into this as well.

(Porsche is in great shape, mind you, Apple won't be gunning for people focused on driving. But for everybody else, it's going to get interesting on the hw/sw side).

 

[feye]

Thanks for the link, looks like some interesting content!

Wish I shared your optimism.
So far I've seen a lot of loud statements, but they usually just showed how little they understand:

They all have grand plans to hire 10,000 software engineers. This is not the salt mines. They don't need thousands of workers.

When they talk about the future journey, they are all focused on the higher margins that software provides, focusing on the profit contribution potential - instead of the fact that all new differentiated features are likely to be software, or that the user journeys today start before you are in the car, and end after you leave the car... etc.

When you look at what they offer compensation-wise vs. Silicon Valley, it's a completely joke. Top developers in the valley make more money than the best paid execs in Stuttgart/Zuffenhausen/Munchen. They are going to have an interesting time hiring the best of the best. Poaching people from there to US high tech is like shooting fish in a barrel.

Yes, this guy might have tested more EVs than anybody else.

Loud statements are marketing stuff. The reality of course is, that there is a big empty hole when it comes to available software developers in Germany.

The German car companies have a big advantage with their deep and very long engagement in the Chinese market. And here is where the future music plays - particularly when it comes to EVs, battery tech, autonomous driving and software. What the tech guys in Silicon Valley do and what they earn is basically irrelevant.

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