Model 3 vs. Taycan Turbo S Track Race

feye

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Fair, fact-based, and well-reasoned posts like this are one of the reasons I enjoy this forum. Pretty unusual in my experience. The model 3 is an impressive vehicle for the price even if I have no desire to own one.
Sorry, if you add in quality and service and ignore the US electricity charging network problems, the Taycan comes way ahead.





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daveo4EV

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if if if if - I’ve owned 5 teslas - quality is acceptable - service has never been an issue - they send people to my home to fix my tesla porsche doesn’t do that - and so far the Taycan’s quality record is iffy at best (Ota updates, dealer updates, 12V issues, stop sales, PCM bugs, completely dead vehiles with dealers holding on to them for weeks with no updates, dying on the road, and parts shortages - please explain to me again how porsche is doing this better?)

yeah - Tesla isn’t any worse, and my Taycan so far has left me stranded twice in 9 months - in 8 years of owning 5 Teslas I never found them dead in the morning.

ignore the charging network issues? seriously - you must be joking.

yeah if you ignore all the issues with the Taycan it’s way better - if you ignore all the issues.
 

Jhenson29

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if if if if - I’ve owned 5 teslas - quality is acceptable - service has never been an issue - they send people to my home to fix my tesla porsche doesn’t do that - and so far the Taycan’s quality record is iffy at best (Ota updates, dealer updates, 12V issues, stop sales, PCM bugs, completely dead vehiles with dealers holding on to them for weeks with no updates, dying on the road, and parts shortages - please explain to me again how porsche is doing this better?)

yeah - Tesla isn’t any worse, and my Taycan so far has left me stranded twice in 9 months - in 8 years of owning 5 Teslas I never found them dead in the morning.

ignore the charging network issues? seriously - you must be joking.

yeah if you ignore all the issues with the Taycan it’s way better - if you ignore all the issues.
I look at it as...if I had bought a Model 3, or even a Model S for that matter, I imagine I would spend an awful lot of time wishing I was in a Taycan.

With the Taycan, I expect to spend exactly zero time wishing I was in a Tesla.

So, at the end of the day...none of the rest of it really matters.
 

feye

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if if if if - I’ve owned 5 teslas - quality is acceptable - service has never been an issue - they send people to my home to fix my tesla porsche doesn’t do that - and so far the Taycan’s quality record is...
Well, compare my 8 month trouble free Taycan with my 5 years every 3 to 6 months in the shop MS90D (incl. wallbox meltdown)...
 
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feye

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ignore the charging network issues? seriously - you must be joking.
I am afraid I am not! I understand that in CA the situation is VERY different, but in the largest EV market with almost 80% of fast chargers installed world wide, T network seems like a fairy tale. There are a few fast chargers in the major cities like Shanghai, but if you drive out, there is NO sign of the T brand anywhere.

I am fairly confident to say: There is a clear trend that the charging networks world wide is built up by the power grid companies, not by car companies.
 

daveo4EV

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Well, compare my 8 month trouble free Taycan with my 5 years every 3 to 6 months in the shop MS90D (incl. wallbox meltdown)...
you wall box melt down was bad wiring connection not equipment failure.
 

daveo4EV

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I am afraid I am not! I understand that in CA the situation is VERY different, but in the largest EV market with almost 80% of fast chargers installed world wide, T network seems like a fairy tale. There are a few fast chargers in the major cities like Shanghai, but if you drive out, there is NO sign of the T brand anywhere.

I am fairly confident to say: There is a clear trend that the charging networks world wide is built up by the power grid companies, not by car companies.
your statements make no sense here -Tesla installs supercharger and Porsche is following suite and in north america the supercharger network is way more than california and not a fairy tail…

you can not ignore the ‘fuel network’ for an EV and say it doesn’t matter and EA is a sh*t show right now.

this is far from a fairy tail - including the recently permitted 80 stall (yes 80 stalls) in interstate 5 in california.

your data and conclusions are suspect.

PNG image 2.png
 

daveo4EV

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also look slike more than Shanghi has Tesla superchargers - or is this data inaccurate?

8C5FA627-E5E1-4FCA-85EB-5D197D231093.png
 

feye

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also look slike more than Shanghi has Tesla superchargers - or is this data inaccurate?

8C5FA627-E5E1-4FCA-85EB-5D197D231093.png
Including Korea and Japan. Going skiing from Tokio to Niseko, after the ferry crossing you run out of juice.

Driving from Shanghai to any other place you need lots of planning.

Zoom in and you see how thin it is.

1618286524093.png

This is local district level, you can only find about 4-6 SCs.
 

feye

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you wall box melt down was bad wiring connection not equipment failure.
No it was not! The connection is part of the wallbox. This type of terminal block connector is very cheap and usually used for low amp connection like inside a lamp.

1618887847386.png


These connectors cannot guarantee a proper connection when installed with physical wear and tear. The wallbox was installed in a shared car-park.
  • The cable was thrown over with every charge
  • The building had many construction works (vibrations) done over the years
  • The wallbox was switched on and off with the fuse box above many times.
Result is know.

This is NOT an installation problem, unless the electrician hired by T to install the wallbox was indeed too stupid to screw in 3 screws properly. It is a design problem, particularly when a fault like this destroys the whole wallbox!

1618886904221.png


This is how a proper connector looks like, double locked, guaranteed to withstand weather, wear and tear, vibrations and comes with cables reaching straight into the fuse box.
 

jimithing

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based on my personal experience with both cars @Laguna Seca this is not entirely true - and the the comparison is vs. the Model S - while Porsche was designing the Taycan using the Model S as a benchmark - Tesla went ahead and rolled a bunch of changes/improvements into the Model 3 and it's a radically better EV than the Model S - Porsche's "lead" vs. the Model 3 is a much narrower gap than Porsche marketing would lead to believe and the real world difference is negligible for the two cars. Porsche also only claims "repeatable" performance for launches - but has been notably quiet about on-track stamina.

based on internet videos the Model 3 for back to back launches offers similar performance to the Taycan - while the Model S clearly fails at this metric. Porsche picked their claim(s) very carefully -but is silent on a. number of other characteristics regarding the Taycan.

My personal experience tracking both the vehicles is that they are about the same in terms of back to back hot laps at any given track - with both the Taycan and Model 3 being worlds better than the Model S

where Porsche is clearly superior is "off the lot" performance - to Track a Model 3 you simply must upgrade the brakes & suspension and shocks - but the drive train is solid and at least as capable as the Taycan - but again even with the upgrades you'll come in at 1/2 the cost of a Taycan for a car that can do about as many laps as the Taycan at a given track with similar lap times - both will suffer battery thermal power reductions and consumption will be very very high and unless there is fast charging at the track the number of overall laps will be severely limited.

the Model S has proven to be an enduring comparison point and many many people don't realize that Tesla has moved on and the 3 is an impressive vehicle for price and technology and performance - continuous comparisons by Porsche faithful agains the Model S while ignoring the Model 3 does little in my eyes to bolster their credibility - and as an owner of a Taycan the performance differences between the 3 and the Taycan are not that vast.

I drive the Taycan for other reasons, but for performance the 3 is a very very serious competitor and deserves respect - it’s also been a very successful automobile world wide by any automotive standard. Don’t believe the fans boys, but also keep in mind the Model for it’s price point is perhaps the best value for money available today - and we all would enjoy the reliability and ease of use of Tesla’s supercharger network which is currently the best EV fast charging network in north america…

the Model 3 deserves respect and it’s a very capable platform. The Taycan is too much money for what it is and offers, but I love getting into it every day and has a number of non-performance value propositions above/beyond the Model 3 (OTA updates is not one of them).

both cars have their place and both are EV’s - so that’s progress - 3 years ago no one would be talking about how fast an EV was on track...

we’re still early days here in this transition - Taycan is good, but not the king of the mountain in any way shape or form - and Tesla and Porsche are the best EV’s for purchase right now but that will also change…it’s exciting - we’re soon to see ongoing yearly improvements in everything and it will only get better from here on out.
The Model 3 is a better platform to start modding with due to weight but stock vs stock, the Taycan Turbo S should kill it until it goes into limp mode. Like you mentioned, the Model 3 really needs suspension modifications & brake upgrades. Regardless, the Model 3P is a good platform & unquestionably the best car Tesla makes.

Do you know Greg Wester? I follow him on Twitter & he's done a bunch of mods to his M3P to put up some impressive times.
 

Scandinavian

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No it was not! The connection is part of the wallbox. This type of terminal block connector is very cheap and usually used for low amp connection like inside a lamp.

1618887847386.png


These connectors cannot guarantee a proper connection when installed with physical wear and tear. The wallbox was installed in a shared car-park.
  • The cable was thrown over with every charge
  • The building had many construction works (vibrations) done over the years
  • The wallbox was switched on and off with the fuse box above many times.
Result is know.

This is NOT an installation problem, unless the electrician hired by T to install the wallbox was indeed too stupid to screw in 3 screws properly. It is a design problem, particularly when a fault like this destroys the whole wallbox!

1618886904221.png


This is how a proper connector looks like, double locked, guaranteed to withstand weather, wear and tear, vibrations and comes with cables reaching straight into the fuse box.
Not an equipment fault!!

This is a serious bad workmanship by not tightening the screws to specified torque.

I you look at the top of the picture you will see exactly the same installation done in the fuse box.

We all know you have something against Tesla, but this Is not a Tesla fault.
 

feye

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Not an equipment fault!!

This is a serious bad workmanship by not tightening the screws to specified torque.

I you look at the top of the picture you will see exactly the same installation done in the fuse box.

We all know you have something against Tesla, but this Is not a Tesla fault.
Yes it is! They designed it, they produced it, they installed it including the cable and the fuse box! You can make excuses all you want but crap is crap!
 

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