My First Public Charge @ Electrify America (EA) - Massive Fail!

[epirali]

Kort, this has been well known and documented in EV circles. It is on almost every EV forum. We do not (yet) have any national plan for national charging infrastructure. Tesla pretty much had to create a charging network at their own cost to be able to sell a car. Without an infrastructure the idea of EVs as long range vehicles is not viable. Not to say that you are not correct, but it is the primary thing research into EVs will show.

EA is all kinds of special. Right now it is more PR stunt than a serious charging network. Sadly they are spending money and placing units on a map, but seem to have no care or plan for maintenance and reliability. It would be interesting to see if they even have any uptime goals or ratings. I have had long discussions with ”supervisors” at EA about what is their internal targets. Or how many days is acceptable from a reported failed charger to repair (this is on week 3 after reporting issues in a brand new EA multi unit station had 3 of 4 high speed chargers not working). The line is “we file it and someone will look at it.”

As others have said elsewhere first year cars are risky. Buying EVs for long range travel in the US is not feasible. Even Teslas are only good for main road travel across US, you will have to divert lone distances to get to one if you are not on the primary highways. The Porsche dealer where I picked mine up was almost relived when I made clear this was my 7th EV and that I was well versed on the topic.

EVs are coming. Now let’s see if we will build an infrastructure for them before they fully arrive.

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[daveo4EV]

you mean a separate company forced into existence by a legal settlement for massive pervasive fraud (diesel gate) from a company who’s vested interest is exactly counter to EV goals and aspirations isn’t providing a high quality service for a fledgling new technology that promises to disrupt the very business that provided it’s initial funding. And then appears poorly run, lacks a business case, and more of a PR stunt than an actual commitment to operational excellence?

shocking I tell you, shocking! If only that were foreseeable or likely or even plausible.

Yeah EA sucks, and it’s a total surprise - no one saw it coming.

 

[kort]

Kort, this has been well known and documented in EV circles. It is on almost every EV forum. We do not (yet) have any national plan for national charging infrastructure. Tesla pretty much had to create a charging network at their own cost to be able to sell a car. Without an infrastructure the idea of EVs as long range vehicles is not viable. Not to say that you are not correct, but it is the primary thing research into EVs will show.

EA is all kinds of special. Right now it is more PR stunt than a serious charging network. Sadly they are spending money and placing units on a map, but seem to have no care or plan for maintenance and reliability. It would be interesting to see if they even have any uptime goals or ratings. I have had long discussions with ”supervisors” at EA about what is their internal targets. Or how many days is acceptable from a reported failed charger to repair (this is on week 3 after reporting issues in a brand new EA multi unit station had 3 of 4 high speed chargers not working). The line is “we file it and someone will look at it.”

As others have said elsewhere first year cars are risky. Buying EVs for long range travel in the US is not feasible. Even Teslas are only good for main road travel across US, you will have to divert lone distances to get to one if you are not on the primary highways. The Porsche dealer where I picked mine up was almost relived when I made clear this was my 7th EV and that I was well versed on the topic.

EVs are coming. Now let’s see if we will build an infrastructure for them before they fully arrive.

I am far from an EV newbie, I fully understand the limitations of driving an EV with planning the routings to be paramount.
I have driven my teslas all over the US and never had a fail to charge. I never spent an hour with a help desk, jockeying the car from unit to unit, never had roadside assistance tell me that they would move the car to a dealership but that I was on my own to find transport from a truckstop in the middle of nowhere to get home.

I owned a very early model S and on day 1 of ownership I drove the car from NJ to FL, their system worked from the outset.


the fact that the limitations faced by EV drivers certainly makes driving one different than an ICE however that does not excuse porsche from their misleading marketing.

the Taycan is not, because of the limitations of their charging network, NOT a viable choice for a car for use outside of it's home range. the claims of 20+ minutes to put up to 80% range into the car is just false, it is only true if the charger you happen to be at is a working unit. Porsche needs to stop with their misleading marketing until they can get their fast charging network issues resolved.

 

[kreshi]

Kort, we really understand your frustration about your trip. But you have gotten to the point where you are spamming the forum with your rage against EA and Porsche. Porsche is not doing false advertisement at all. The car does charge very quick. You are not helping anyone with bashing Porsche in 15 different threads. EA is the issue and that has been known here since day one.

 

[epirali]

I am far from an EV newbie, I have driven my teslas all over the US and never had a fail to charge.

I fully understand the limitations of driving an EV with planning the routings to be paramount.

the fact that the limitations faced by EV drivers certainly makes driving one different than an ICE does not relieve porsche from their misleading marketing.
the Taycan is not, because of the limitations of their charging network, NOT a viable choice for a car for use outside of it's home range. the claims of 20+ minutes to put up to 80% range into the car is just false, it is only true if the charger you happen to be at is a working unit. Porsche needs to stop with their misleading marketing until they can get their fast charging network issues resolved.

Well Teslas are only one EV, and as you should know they have a very strong vested interested in keeping their network working. Teslas are NOT all EVs. They have a majority of market share but there are many many different EV brands. For those of us who do not prefer a Tesla (me included) we are focused on EVs as a whole, not the well being on one company.

I agree with you about Porsche being held responsible for their marketing and claims. As I wrote elsewhere I contacted them directly. The other remedy is make them buy the car back, because it doesn’t meet the advertised function. I for one bought mine knowing full well that the charging network was not fit for purpose. I understand this was not your understanding.

I think giving them their car back is about as strong a move as any.

you mean a separate company forced into existence by a legal settlement for massive pervasive fraud (diesel gate) from a company who’s vested interest is exactly counter to EV goals and aspirations isn’t providing a high quality service for a fledgling new technology that promises to disrupt the very business that provided it’s initial funding. And then appears poorly run, lacks a business case, and more of a PR stunt than an actual commitment to operational excellence?

shocking I tell you, shocking! If only that were foreseeable or likely or even plausible.

Except all of VW group is rapidly and aggressively changing their cars to be electric. Sure not for a while yet here in US, but eventually they are also relying on the EA network to sell their own cars. Taycan is a case and point, so is the VW ID.4 and the Audi Etron and Etron GT. There are many more coming.

 

[daveo4EV]

so far on my long distance trips Porsche’s marketing has been mostly accurate - so again not sure that two chargers in florida does a damnation of the entire network fit...

perhaps a Q&A here will help perspective…

• have I had problem with EA - oh yeah! several
• have they gotten better recently - yes
• will I have problems with EA in the future - yes
• will EA work for me in the future - probably mostly - but we honestly don’t know
• is your problem in florida indicative that the entire network is dysfunctional - no
• have I had problem with my 5 tesla at superchargers - several times - and still today
• did or does Porsche mislead customers - maybe - hard to prove with out access to comprehensive investigation and data
• will it get better over time - yes
• will that time frame make you happy - probably not
• can you nail Porsche’s ass to the wall on this one - very unlikely
• can you sell your Taycan and move on - yes
• will EA ever be fast and reliable - unknown
• can you drive any CCS vehicle around and rely on fast charging - probably not
• should any of this be a surprise to anyone - no

this stuff is complex and reliability is super hard for an emerging technology - if that is your personal requirement EV’s are not there yet (including Tesla) and the CCS vehicles are at least 3 if not 5 to 7 years behind Tesla…in this space.

I’m not sure what you believe Porsche told you - but I’m damm sure you can’t find anything that will hold up to a legal challenge - so you’re kinda stuck - you eitehr keep the Taycan with it’s limitations and ride the wave with the rest of us - good and bad…or sell it and move on.

But claiming Porsche is misleading anyone - well that’s going to be a legal stretch.

 

[daveo4EV]

I’ve owned Teslas for 7 years- about to take a break from Elon but I may be back - and I’ve done lots of supercharging, the experience is better than the current CCS sh*tshow - and it is Sh*tshow people - Elon is “winning” this part of the battle

but…

the Taycan charges faster than _ANY_ Tesla I’ve ever owned, when you get to even a functional 150 kW CCS charger the - the Taycan ”wins”

why?

because there is almost _NO_ taper deep into the 80% SOC range vs. Model 3 & Y…

if you get a 350 kW charger to work (like in Paso Robles, CA) - WOW - this car is awesome1

_IF_ you find a functional charger - the Taycan is the fastest charging EV in production today - it really really does win for speed of charge - and the taper is much less than any Tesla.

now all we need is the charging network to be more reliable - me I’m willing to deal with it for another 24’ish months to see where it comes out - there is going to be more pressure on EA as other car vendors start to actually sell some of their vaporware

but to date - I’ve not seen anything charge as fast as a Production Taycan at a functional 350 kW EA charger - it’s really really good when it works. And it occasionally works.

 

[dnanian]

I've noticed a lot of repair/update activity at EA chargers in the MA area over the last two weeks. They're definitely not just fixing "busted" chargers. And I've had *no* charge failures for quite some time... I think things are looking up.

Not that they're perfect, of course. But getting better.

 

[Swede-ish]

I've noticed a lot of repair/update activity at EA chargers in the MA area over the last two weeks. They're definitely not just fixing "busted" chargers. And I've had *no* charge failures for quite some time... I think things are looking up.

Not that they're perfect, of course. But getting better.

Yes, I have noticed that too. I asked the contractors at one location what they were doing, and they told me they are installing Tesla batteries to support high demand periods on the EA chargers!

 

[Bsteffes]

you mean a separate company forced into existence by a legal settlement for massive pervasive fraud (diesel gate) from a company who’s vested interest is exactly counter to EV goals and aspirations isn’t providing a high quality service for a fledgling new technology that promises to disrupt the very business that provided it’s initial funding. And then appears poorly run, lacks a business case, and more of a PR stunt than an actual commitment to operational excellence?

shocking I tell you, shocking! If only that were foreseeable or likely or even plausible.

Yeah EA sucks, and it’s a total surprise - no one saw it coming.

And to add insult to injury....most Porsche dealerships don’t have any of the 800v charging setups that we were promised. Or what was listed in the PR book that was sent out to all of the first guys who made deposits. They may have one or two 50amp chargers. That’s it.....
Let alone that none of them were trained on the basic electrical questions that would be asked by customers.
Not their finest moment. Porsche came up short with the bar that it had set for nearly five years of waiting.

 

[daveo4EV]

And to add insult to injury....most Porsche dealerships don’t have any of the 800v charging setups that we were promised. Or what was listed in the PR book that was sent out to all of the first guys who made deposits. They may have one or two 50amp chargers. That’s it.....
Let alone that none of them were trained on the basic electrical questions that would be asked by customers.
Not their finest moment. Porsche came up short with the bar that it had set for nearly five years of waiting.

all you need to know about Porsche's commtment to EV' is encapsulated in this press release…

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a35577611/porsche-synthetic-efuel-clean-emissions-testing/

…Porsche’s eFuels are made out of CO2 and hydrogen and are produced using renewable energy.…

ummmm - I'm willing to bet this is energy negative - in that is uses more energy than it stores to make the fuel…and is worse the fool-cells…

all I see is someone hedging their bets…where if they were truly committed they'd wouldn't have screwed up the roll out…

say what you will about Tesla, they are not half-assed when it comes to EV commitment.

 

[thecoloradokid]

Jesus, this again????? Quit spamming this board with the same whiny bull$hit posts about the Electrify American charging network. Yes, it needs work. However, WE ALL KNOW THAT and the subject has been beaten to death on this forum.

If you don't like the current charging environment return your Taycan. How many posts can a person with 2,000 miles on their Taycan make about the same subject?? Once you get 5,000 or 10,000 miles on your car and actually cross state lines, let us know.

If you are going to be on this board please add something constructive and helpful. Your repeating yourselves day after day adds absolutely no value to other owners. I am looking specifically at @epirali and @kort since you guys have to be the worst posters on this board.

I can't wait till both of you have 12v battery issues. At least you will whine over something different than the EA charging networks.

 

[JimBob]

you mean a separate company forced into existence by a legal settlement for massive pervasive fraud (diesel gate) from a company who’s vested interest is exactly counter to EV goals and aspirations isn’t providing a high quality service for a fledgling new technology that promises to disrupt the very business that provided it’s initial funding. And then appears poorly run, lacks a business case, and more of a PR stunt than an actual commitment to operational excellence?

shocking I tell you, shocking! If only that were foreseeable or likely or even plausible.

Yeah EA sucks, and it’s a total surprise - no one saw it coming.

This is not accurate. The terms of the settlement agreement were determined by the EPA and California and dictate how EA is to spend the money. An amount that is far in excess of any amount that has been spent before and under the agreement is open to all EV manufacturers. The concern is that EA will dominate its competitors. Ultimately EA is likely to become its own public company. The problem is that EA is in some instances executing poorly. Not that there is some hidden VAG plan to have it fail. This together with the direction Europe is headed in is not likely to permit any U-turns by the industry.

 

[thecoloradokid]

please see some of my recent remarks regarding this situation. it is time to give issue some exposure in the auto motive world

Your recent remarks left out the key part that your experience happened because of USER ERROR, not the charging network. Quit broadcasting your lack of knowlege/ignorance. There is a reason your other thread got locked.

 

[andrewket]

I’ve owned Teslas for 7 years- about to take a break from Elon but I may be back - and I’ve done lots of supercharging, the experience is better than the current CCS sh*tshow - and it is Sh*tshow people - Elon is “winning” this part of the battle

but…

the Taycan charges faster than _ANY_ Tesla I’ve ever owned, when you get to even a functional 150 kW CCS charger the - the Taycan ”wins”

why?

because there is almost _NO_ taper deep into the 80% SOC range vs. Model 3 & Y…

if you get a 350 kW charger to work (like in Paso Robles, CA) - WOW - this car is awesome1

_IF_ you find a functional charger - the Taycan is the fastest charging EV in production today - it really really does win for speed of charge - and the taper is much less than any Tesla.

now all we need is the charging network to be more reliable - me I’m willing to deal with it for another 24’ish months to see where it comes out - there is going to be more pressure on EA as other car vendors start to actually sell some of their vaporware

but to date - I’ve not seen anything charge as fast as a Production Taycan at a functional 350 kW EA charger - it’s really really good when it works. And it occasionally works.

What remains to be seen is what the Taycan’s battery degradation is over time. Tesla could change the charging curve, bit it’s always a trade off. We already have a small indication that Porsche is concerned about this with the new “battery friendly” mode that limits the peak charge rate to 200kW. Tesla also has other limits in place, including tiers based on total kWh charged via level 3. When these tiers are hit, the peak charge rate is further limited/reduced.

We don’t yet know If Porsche has these limits in place, or if they might push them later via OTA. I would be very surprised if they don’t. If they have oversized the pack and/or are using a battery chemistry that will survive prolonged L3 I’ll be ecstatic. But I doubt it.

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