Need Advice on PPF and Car Washing for the Unwashed

[annieland]

This is a video of my car with a full front (bumper, front side and hood) and ceramic coat on the rest. Here is what it boils down to. If you want the best protection and don't want to worry about where you bring it to, then get your entire car covered with PFF. I have used Xpel on all of my Porsches and have always been happy with the results. If you dont mind washing it at home (with the occasional carwash) then go the hybrid PFF / Ceramic. The ceramic coating is shinier and has more "pop" to it. The problem is if you take your ceramic coated car to the drive through car washes you will develop swirls over time. Hope this helps.

Yeah, I'm going to call them tomorrow and explore my options for the full PPF. I've looked at other places, but I really like this one I've scheduled with. Family operation, been doing this for over 20 years, really believe in Xpel, and the woman was amazing and knowledgeable on the phone. Stellar reviews and portfolio too, of course.

Love your video, and my first thought was, "Ok, I'll take one."

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[WuffvonTrips]

Now, what if you took it through an automatic car wash with the flappy non-brush things? Would the paint start to get swirled up? Really understanding ceramic (especially from unbiased sources) is difficult, as to what extent it protects paint. Like, okay the pebbles that fall on my hood, PPF for sure. But if I just had ceramic over the rest (like yours), would a car wash be the kiss of death? Would you shudder at the thought of one, or just rather enjoy doing it yourself?

Even before I'd read all the horror stories of water-related Taycan problems, I was no more likely to subject my Taycan to any kind of automated carwash than I would be to walk through one myself, naked. In either case, I'm not prepared to risk the the loss of vulnerable pieces of trim.

 

[Wakesurfer]

So, I'm going to be real honest here. And I've read every relevant thread multiple times over. So I thought I'd consolidate my concerns into one post..

This is my first car over $50k MSRP. Waited my whole life for a luxury vehicle, and pulled the trigger on a very equipped 4S due to arrive somewhere between next week and October. I always start out all careful with my cars, buying nice cleaning products, and then let it all go to pot. Raised 3 kids (plus carpools) in an Odyssey and then a Pilot and... yeah, I gave up. But, I don't want to F up this car!! Only detailing I ever got was the Odyssey like 10 years ago and I was underwhelmed and never bothered again, even though I meant to.

Our Tesla X and jet owning/piloting friends own the local popular car wash chain so we have a membership there. It's good, but swirls abound. So far I've scheduled XPel PPF for the front, doors and headlights ($4k or something, I didn't even write it down). They say an auto car wash is fine. But now I'm thinking, what about what isn't covered? Maybe I should see what a full custom wrap will cost.

Considering I'm so lazy with just pulling out a dustbuster and seat wipe, I gotta be realistic that I shouldn't aim for the stars on what my husband and I will promise to do in this area. Yes, my dad would be out there with the soap and turtle wax in the driveway nearly every weekend when I was a kid, and I'd like to do the buff off and see it shine, but that's where it ended.

I was looking at those low PSI pressure washers that shoot out foam... maybe a no-rinse wash from XPel. Something that is not super labor intensive but doable if I can make it fun. We have a real pressure washer, but ugh, so big and loud. Should I really go with the exorbitant full PPF & Ceramic expense? Find a good detailer and just go regularly? Suck it up and go to the brushless car wash (no touchless around here)?

TLDR: I'm a cheap slob but want a sparkling car at all times. Help me find a middle ground!

Well..................I took a different approach. I have had two prior 911s - both were street cars but I participated in 12-15 Porsche Drivers Education events annually, first as a student and then as an instructor. Your car gets plenty of dirt, scum and hot rubber (off of the cars that you are chasing down) and after a weekend the thing is pretty filthy. Might wash it on Monday............or Tuesday - whenever I had time. No PPF, ceramic, just the car wash tools that you get a Pep Boys - a mitt, Meguiars, a bucket and a hose. Did those cars get chips - yep. Just part the whole package.

Fast forward to the Taycan. I did not get PPF, ceramic, or any protective coating, but I did find this video Videos of Pro Car washing From Home on the internet. I bought the pressure washer, foam cannon, two buckets, etc. and wash my car when I think that it needs it. I put on hand wax when I think that it needs it but I don't obsess over either.

I tell you this in hopes that you will not stress too much over your car. It is a very special car, but it is just a car that will get dirty, rock and debris chips and hopefully not, but door dings. Think of Dr. Porsche when he designed those first 356s. He designed them to be fun cars to be driven and driven hard in those old roads in Germany and Europe. My guess is that paint chips were the last thing on his mind - but driving and driving hard was always on his mind. No matter what you decide, PPF, ceramic, or good old fashioned bucket and mitt, enjoy your car - it is meant to be driven.

 

[Redhot2474]

My 2 cents. I brought my car to an unlimited hand wash place near my house for 50$ per month. I quickly realized they still put the car on rails to go in. The wheel are 2 big and it’s just a matter of time before they screw the wheels up. So, I found a touch less car wash that does a fantastic job for 5$ per wash. After it goes through I pull it off to side and dry it a bit better and use a quick detailer and tire shine. It’s a total of 30 min invested. I live in a high rise with no Ez access to a hose. I also had the hot spots of car PPF and did a 10 Year ceramic which makes it very easy to maintain. I always drive a clean car

 

[CarbonTax]

As far as ppf negotiations, I did full front and quarters (not headlights) and had my 3M shop comp the upper windshield tint. I ceramic the balance and would never let anybody else touch it (OCD). I've had conversations with car wash employees with other cars and the risk/reward calculation is assuredly not in my favor.

As diononiz wrote above^ Ceramic is a great highlighter of metallic finishes

 

[annieland]

Well..................I took a different approach. I have had two prior 911s - both were street cars but I participated in 12-15 Porsche Drivers Education events annually, first as a student and then as an instructor. Your car gets plenty of dirt, scum and hot rubber (off of the cars that you are chasing down) and after a weekend the thing is pretty filthy. Might wash it on Monday............or Tuesday - whenever I had time. No PPF, ceramic, just the car wash tools that you get a Pep Boys - a mitt, Meguiars, a bucket and a hose. Did those cars get chips - yep. Just part the whole package.

Fast forward to the Taycan. I did not get PPF, ceramic, or any protective coating, but I did find this video Videos of Pro Car washing From Home on the internet. I bought the pressure washer, foam cannon, two buckets, etc. and wash my car when I think that it needs it. I put on hand wax when I think that it needs it but I don't obsess over either.

I tell you this in hopes that you will not stress too much over your car. It is a very special car, but it is just a car that will get dirty, rock and debris chips and hopefully not, but door dings. Think of Dr. Porsche when he designed those first 356s. He designed them to be fun cars to be driven and driven hard in those old roads in Germany and Europe. My guess is that paint chips were the last thing on his mind - but driving and driving hard was always on his mind. No matter what you decide, PPF, ceramic, or good old fashioned bucket and mitt, enjoy your car - it is meant to be driven.

Thank you so much for all that. I already joined my local PCA and they have sooo many meet-ups, events, and activities. They have a beginner's HPDE instruction and track day in May that I really hope I can register for, if my car arrives on time. So yeah, I didn't even mention the part where I want to learn how to drive it in a way my State Farm "Drive Safe & Save" beacon wouldn't like.

I leased a Ford Focus sedan 10 years ago, as a short term 3rd car because I needed to transport my ailing mom and she couldn't get in the minivan. No lie, within a DAY, I turned it into the garage, straight across the door. Whole right door and wheelbase were scraped and a little dented, like a foot tall and I don't even know how wide. I just left the damn thing and said I'd worry about it when the time comes. Fast forward about 30 months.... and I get rammed into by a crazy lady while exiting a traffic circle. Guess what! Her insurance covered that whole wrecked side of the car and I turned it in like brand new! I don't even think the body shop could tell what was her damage and what was mine. And that Meguiars Leather Cleaner did an amazing job getting off the denim stains that I put on within the first month too. So I gotcha! Thanks again . I'm so happy.

 

[xyeahtony]

I had full PPF & ceramic on my teslas and i regret it because it was so much money for so little gain. Going through a car wash all the time is nice, but eventually the car washes will strip away the ceramic and you'll be left with a dull PPF flim.

its better to put a nice ceramic coat on the car, where it will always be shiny. And then pay someone to hand wash. That's what i'll do on my taycan. Or just use a touchless car wash that wont give you swirls. I honestly wont care if my taycan doesn't look brand new 100% of the time. its a car, not a museum piece.

 

[Skilly]

So LOTS of opinions so I'll throw mine in...

First, you have had your car for a bit. And, it sounds like it might have suffered a little in that. You mentioned the drive thru car washes with the swinging fabric...which is about as kind to paint as a mild sandpaper. Even a careful wash is gonna take a toll on paint. So, you are going to need correcting before you PPF. That's actually equally as expensive as PPF and sometimes more depending on the shape of your car. No sense wrapping damaged paint!

Second is the material - dont go cheap. The self healing stuff is what you want and the two best are either Xpel (careful because there are different grades) and Stek. Both versions of the higher end versions of this will have self healing properties AND a ceramic coating after wont be required - the material will have it impregnated.

Last, and certainly not least, the installer matters. If they dont know what they are doing you will see imperfections in the finish (likely stretching or poor prep) and seams will show. A cycle of seasons - winter to summer will take its toll on bad installs too. You will see seams separate. Also warranty. The product will have a 10 year warranty but be sure to ask about the labor portion. That is almost never the same.

Get the right combination of the above and it will look good for years. See a scratch or swirls, just park it in the sun for the afternoon and BAM! Swirls are gone...self healing is real.

Here are the ranges to expect:

$500 to $1500 for paint correction
$1500 to $2500 for front complete (to doors & mirrors).

If you aren't paying in those ranges, you are compromised somewhere with the variables (product, warranty, installer)

 

[rim23]

I had full PPF & ceramic on my teslas and i regret it because it was so much money for so little gain. Going through a car wash all the time is nice, but eventually the car washes will strip away the ceramic and you'll be left with a dull PPF flim.

its better to put a nice ceramic coat on the car, where it will always be shiny. And then pay someone to hand wash. That's what i'll do on my taycan. Or just use a touchless car wash that wont give you swirls. I honestly wont care if my taycan doesn't look brand new 100% of the time. its a car, not a museum piece.

I totally agree. It’s just waste of money for little gain. Though, you’ll make a second owner happy. But wouldn’t it be easy to just discount those a couple of thousands and sell the car quicker?

 

[mutanthands]

I had full PPF & ceramic on my teslas and i regret it because it was so much money for so little gain. Going through a car wash all the time is nice, but eventually the car washes will strip away the ceramic and you'll be left with a dull PPF flim.

its better to put a nice ceramic coat on the car, where it will always be shiny. And then pay someone to hand wash. That's what i'll do on my taycan. Or just use a touchless car wash that wont give you swirls. I honestly wont care if my taycan doesn't look brand new 100% of the time. its a car, not a museum piece.

That problem was using a car wash, not the PPF / Ceramic coat.
Whoever applied your ceramic coating should have given you a leaflet with how to care for it.
Even with handwashing you have to make sure your chosen brand isn't going to damage the ceramic, and it's still advisable to top it up every now and then with a bit of wax.etc (no polish, for obvious reasons).

 

[Sarah's dog chariot]

Not gonna lie, I saw (and laughed with) your posts, and since you've been warmly received I figured maybe I could get comfortable. I'm a native New Yorker, but fully get British humor so yeah, we'd have fun I'm sure!! Thanks sweetie .

xxxx

 

[Needsdecaf]

I totally agree. It’s just waste of money for little gain. Though, you’ll make a second owner happy. But wouldn’t it be easy to just discount those a couple of thousands and sell the car quicker?

This is a bad take. It totally depends on how long you're keeping your car, what color it is, and what you're doing with it. So if it fits your use case, it's absolutely NOT a waste of money.

My 911 is not a daily. No PPF, coating installed by me. It's Meteor gray and could get sold off at any time.

Our new Cayenne is Moonlight blue, and is a daily driver. Plus road tripper. It was swirled to hell from the delivery so paint correction was definitely needed, and having dark paint PPF was a must. We'll keep this car probably 7-10 years. We've had our old Cayenne nearly 10 and let me tell you I wish I had put PPF on it. Thank goodness it's Umber (medium bronze). Hides a lot of sins. Ceramic coating will make it easier to wash and keep the love bug damage to a minimum.

I had PPF on my prior Tesla I did 35,000 miles / year in and let me tell you that saved all kinds of damage. Not just rock chips. Roads here in Houston suck. It was nice not to have to look at a crappy front end.

 

[annieland]

This is a bad take. It totally depends on how long you're keeping your car, what color it is, and what you're doing with it. So if it fits your use case, it's absolutely NOT a waste of money.

My 911 is not a daily. No PPF, coating installed by me. It's Meteor gray and could get sold off at any time.

Our new Cayenne is Moonlight blue, and is a daily driver. Plus road tripper. It was swirled to hell from the delivery so paint correction was definitely needed, and having dark paint PPF was a must. We'll keep this car probably 7-10 years. We've had our old Cayenne nearly 10 and let me tell you I wish I had put PPF on it. Thank goodness it's Umber (medium bronze). Hides a lot of sins. Ceramic coating will make it easier to wash and keep the love bug damage to a minimum.

I had PPF on my prior Tesla I did 35,000 miles / year in and let me tell you that saved all kinds of damage. Not just rock chips. Roads here in Houston suck. It was nice not to have to look at a crappy front end.

I'm also reflecting on the real-time experience of my husband's newish car, which is a "Ceramic Gray" Kia Stinger GT2, a limited production ICE sport liftback which isn't a Porsche, but is quite a zippy head-turner and he loves it. I thought he was going to want some kind of basic paint protection or treatment, but he never went ahead with it. Now, nearly 3 years later as his daily, he's really noticing the rock chips and he takes way better care of it than I do my Pilot. So we're learning all this together, and while I'm trying to be proactive he is also learning the ways he can get his paint touched up and then better protected going forward.

In general, we keep our cars unless there's a pressing reason to trade (like a larger family, new use case, etc.). The Pilot holds my personal record at almost 8 years! I can't believe I've driven it for this long without getting bored or annoyed, save for the surprise messes some kid leaves in the third row before I discover it and scream. I always choose what is to me the most interesting color, light or dark. It was the first production run so I had quite a challenge in finding the dark Forest Green Metallic that I was intent on. But holy moly, getting it to look green and not black is not for the faint hearted!! I have a feeling this Frozen Berry Metallic is going to do a decent job of hiding road dirt and minor imperfections. If you see the color in person you'd know what I mean... it's not as 'pink' in normal light.

 

[Needsdecaf]

I'm also reflecting on the real-time experience of my husband's newish car, which is a "Ceramic Gray" Kia Stinger GT2, a limited production ICE sport liftback which isn't a Porsche, but is quite a zippy head-turner and he loves it. I thought he was going to want some kind of basic paint protection or treatment, but he never went ahead with it. Now, nearly 3 years later as his daily, he's really noticing the rock chips and he takes way better care of it than I do my Pilot. So we're learning all this together, and while I'm trying to be proactive he is also learning the ways he can get his paint touched up and then better protected going forward.

In general, we keep our cars unless there's a pressing reason to trade (like a larger family, new use case, etc.). The Pilot holds my personal record at almost 8 years! I can't believe I've driven it for this long without getting bored or annoyed, save for the surprise messes some kid leaves in the third row before I discover it and scream. I always choose what is to me the most interesting color, light or dark. It was the first production run so I had quite a challenge in finding the dark Forest Green Metallic that I was intent on. But holy moly, getting it to look green and not black is not for the faint hearted!! I have a feeling this Frozen Berry Metallic is going to do a decent job of hiding road dirt and minor imperfections. If you see the color in person you'd know what I mean... it's not as 'pink' in normal light.

Agreed, I've seen frozen berry. It's got a lot of nuance to it. Alot of gold / bronze tone. Not shocking pink, and it should hide rock chips fairly decently.

Sounds like you're up for the learning experience, great! Your quote above on the PPF seems steep. Was $4k just for the PPF or was it for paint correction and coating as well? You shouldn't be paying more than $2k (probably less) for hood, fenders, front bumper and side view mirrors from any decent PPF shop. I've had it done by several shops here in Houston using XPel and that seems to be the going rate.

As far as ceramic goes, there are a few things to consider. First, it's one of the most highly marketed products out there in the detailing world today and, as such, has one of the highest markups. The REAL cost in doing a coating is doing the paint correction prior to the coating. Even a pro-level coating (only sold to detailing shops directly) isn't an expensive product, and putting it on the car is easier, MUCH easier, than waxing. Even a detailing newcomer like you could pick up a bottle of Ammo Reflex Pro from Ammo NYC and do a good job of installing it after watching a few videos. So you wan to be sure that you get a good paint correction since the coating will just enhance whatever swirls exist under it. I just paid about $1,800 on our new Cayenne but it was a pro level coating and involved a one-step paint correction on a dark blue car. And it needed correcting!

Also, ceramic is marketed as "lifetime" or having some 5-10 year warranty, which is BS. Think of ceramic coating as a "super wax". Whereas a carnauba based wax will give you gloss and shine for, oh, two rainstorms, a coating will last a long time. BUT, it will still pick up embedded contaminates over time. Those clog up the paint and stick to it, causing swirls if improperly washed. In reality, a coating should be re-done every few years. What it WILL do is keep dirt from sticking to the paint as easily, making washing the car easier and, most importantly, do the best job at keeping swirls and scratches at bay.

Honestly, if you're going to tunnel wash the car, I'd pop for a full PPF. But also honestly...just leave the car dirty and wash it by hand when you can. Get familiar with techniques that can help speed things up like a waterless or rinseless wash. Something you can do in the garage in the winter. Ammo Frothe looks like an amazing product I am psyched to try. Obsessed Garage carries a few waterless / rinesless wash products and the towels to properly do it as well. Both sites offer awesome videos to learn what you're doing and, most importantly, trying to prevent. Larry at Ammo probably has the better ones.

Good luck!

 

[xyeahtony]

That problem was using a car wash, not the PPF / Ceramic coat.
Whoever applied your ceramic coating should have given you a leaflet with how to care for it.
Even with handwashing you have to make sure your chosen brand isn't going to damage the ceramic, and it's still advisable to top it up every now and then with a bit of wax.etc (no polish, for obvious reasons).

That's my point. If i still have to hand wash then i might as well skip the PPF. Im not worried about minor rock chips because its not a museum piece and honestly nobodys gonna care at resale/trade in.

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