New Electrify America (EA) Chargers failing in cold weather

[Jhenson29]

I think the common analogy of the car “pulling” energy and the station being a passive or dumb part is not accurate.

I agree. They form a circuit.

The car communicates with the charger to request a certain voltage.

I see. So it sounds like the car does provide signaling for DC fast chargers to modulate output voltage. So, then, the output voltage is incorrect.

Sponsored

 

[JimBob]

This is an interesting point as to how fast DC charging works. Here is a brief description of the communication standard for fast DC charging (Mode 4). The actual details as to how it works appear to be behind a paywall or at least I couldn't find a freebie version.

From All About Circuits.

EV Charging Mode 4
This is the only charging mode that incorporates an off-board charger with a DC output. The DC current is delivered directly to the battery and the on-board charger is bypassed. This mode can provide 600 V DC with a maximum current of 400 A. The high power level involved in this mode mandates a higher level of communication and stricter safety features.

Mode 4 only allows a case C connection, where the charging cable is permanently connected to the charging station.

 

[Jhenson29]

This is an interesting point as to how fast DC charging works.

Yeah, I guess I always assumed the voltage regulation took place in the car, but it sounds like that’s not the case for DCFC.

Separately, I’ve always found the definition of chargers to be poor, but maybe one could better define a charger as the device that does the final voltage regulation.

 

[JimBob]

I would have said the load determines the demand. But there is software controlling this which makes sense as there are different batteries and chargers and each one needs to deal with every other one. Kind of sounds like EA/BTC got something wrong. Kyle's a smart guy and likes this kind of stuff so hope he gets an explanation.

 

[Archimedes]

Not even that. I started the charge at 19% and around 40miles of range, so in 35min I added around 85miles. This pic was taken at 1:16pm, it would have taken another hour to go from 53% to 85%. The app showed all chargers were working fine. Luckily, I live 7 miles from this station and wasn't reliant on it. I just wanted to see how this public charging process worked .

If you are charging at 89.2 kWh, and you charge for 35 minutes, you’ve added 52 kw to the battery, right? Even at a shit range you’d get north of 2 miles per kw. How do you get 85 miles? At 93 kWh the other day, I added 50 miles in about 10 minutes.

 

[kmcdonal]

The frustration is that the technology IS here and has been for years, but Electrify America is so poorly run that they muck up several key components of the chargers.

What you are saying is reasonable, but the unreasonable part of me refuses to spend $100k on a vehicle and not travel with it.

Well said. I bought my car to drive it.

I have had many charging sessions in sub zero temps using EvGo and Chargepoint. It isn't going to be a super fast charging speed at those temps, but the technology can work reliably.

 

[Archimedes]

The frustration is that the technology IS here and has been for years, but Electrify America is so poorly run that they muck up several key components of the chargers.

What you are saying is reasonable, but the unreasonable part of me refuses to spend $100k on a vehicle and not travel with it.

But it’s not about the ‘technology’, it’s about the deployment. There’s a lot more to this than simply technology. The deployment of infrastructure is NOT there yet, period. It’s not even debatable; it’s a fact. Banging your head against the wall and complaining isn’t going to change that.

Anyone who bought a Taycan under the assumption that they would have access to a reliable public charging network simply didn’t do their homework.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Well, that doesn’t really sound right.

I don’t know who Kyle is or what his electrical background is, but I think something is getting lost in the messaging from Rivian engineers

Again, the EVSE doesn’t “push” energy that way.

He’s an extremely experienced EV user who formerly held the EV Cannonball record in a Taycan while having direct support from EA. I’d say he knows what he’s talking about.

 

[Jhenson29]

He’s an extremely experienced EV user who formerly held the EV Cannonball record in a Taycan while having direct support from EA. I’d say he knows what he’s talking about.

Being familiar with EVs and have basic electrical knowledge aren’t necessarily the same thing. And in the video, he’s appears to just be relaying info he received from Rivian.

That said, it has already been established after that I was the one who was wrong.

 

[DRR]

I've given up charging at my local EA station and charge from home 100% now... I've been to a few acceptable stations but most are complete trash... So much for 3 free years of charging

Same for me. The EA stations are not only unreliable but now becoming crowded with so many different EVs. Plus I've never got more than 100kw even on a 350 EA charger. EA needs to get their act together fast.

 

[DRR]

While continuing to have no problems with EA chargers, I still don’t understand why anyone would buy an EV if they have to rely on public charging infrastructure except in the most rare circumstances. The infrastructure isn’t there yet and that’s not a secret. I don’t get all the whining about something that is and was patently obvious to anyone who hasn’t been living under a rock. Public EV charging infrastructure is unreliable, period. Accept it or don’t own an EV at the moment. Or buy a dental dam, I mean Tesla.

Oh and in that video, it’s negative six degrees. Shit doesn’t work as well in those temps. Shocking I know.

If Tesla has figured it out, is is unreasonable to assume that EA can't do the same?

 

[TaycanCook]

If Tesla has figured it out, is is unreasonable to assume that EA can't do the same?

It is completely reasonable to assume ea CAN'T. So far, they seem to have demonstrated focusing on the wrong things (stickers) and for where they seem to address reliability (core issues), they have fallen short and have gotten worse reliability. Number of EVs are going up, they have to figure out how to scale or it risks becoming myspace.

 

[Archimedes]

If Tesla has figured it out, is is unreasonable to assume that EA can't do the same?

Tesla began developing their supercharger technology almost fifteen years ago and started deploying it over a decade ago. EA as a company was only founded six years ago. Why would you expect their charging network to be remotely comparable at this point in time? EA is probably 7-8 years behind Tesla on the growth curve.

Oh and it’s a good thing Tesla has this all figured out…https://www.yahoo.com/finance/news/tesla-owner-says-had-cancel-165555214.html

 

[bsclywilly]

FWIW, BTC, the company that built the latest EA chargers and topic of this thread, has been in the DC fast charging business for nearly 10 years. The issue in the original post is that in cold temperatures, the new BTC units were inoperable while the ABB, signet, delta, and several other chargers on EA, EVgo and Chargepoint networks that Kyle visited in the middle of the night did still work. What is worse is that EA still had them showing as operational in their system which could be misleading and potentially a safety concern for those travelling in such cold conditions. In addition, the power output problems with the BTC units further show that this supplier that EA most recently partnered with was not a good one. Probably a sign of worse things to come if they can’t get their shit together.

 

[Archimedes]

News flash. Public EV charging infrastructure is currently unreliable. Film at 11. In other news, night is still dark.

Sponsored