NFx Rating: Myth or Truth?

tchavei

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Sooo

I went to my usual long known tyre shop to swap the rear tyres of my MB.

While I was waiting, I asked the owner if he had ordered the Hankook Ventus S iON EV tyres for me (as I'm planning to swap my 19'' to 21'' on my Taycan when it arrives). He said they were on backorder but asked me for which car they were. For some reason, we never spoke about the Taycan.

Anyway, the moment I told him it was for a T, he replied: oh shit, you can forget the Hankooks.

I asked why and he proceeded to explain to me that 'N' rated tires usually come 'trimmed' from factory. 1 or 2 degree of camber. "If you put the Hankooks, which are straight, the car is going to chew them up on the inside".

I was a little skeptical so the owner pulled out a continental N0 tyre (not NF0 though) and indeed, the tyre would sit skewed on the ground, like the Tower of Pisa. He says it's on purpose to accommodate the porsche camber. The tyres are also usually softer. He said that he was pretty sure the NF0 would also be 'trimmed'.

So now I'm kinda lost. My plan was to test the new Hankooks but after the scare he gave me, I'm not so sure anymore.

Does anyone know if NF0 rated tyres are also "weird"? Or is it just N0?

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tchavei

tchavei

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Guess nobody wanted to bite into this subject.

I'm most likely going for the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 5 NF0

Going to have enough hell with Porsche in case of a warranty issue by having aftermarket rims, don't need even more trouble by not having NF0 rated tyres.

I guess it is what it is.

Maybe in a few years the Hankook iON will get the Porsche seal of approval.

Cheers.
 

whitex

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Do those tires have an indicator which side is the outside, or is the tire store supposed to know this? For directional tire treads, there should be different part numbers for left and right if they are trimmed, no?
 
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tchavei

tchavei

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Do those tires have an indicator which side is the outside, or is the tire store supposed to know this? For directional tire treads, there should be different part numbers for left and right if they are trimmed, no?
I honestly have no idea. All I know is what he told me and I saw the N0 tyre upright on the ground leaning to one side (not much but maybe 2 degree). I should have taken a pic but didn't thought of it at the time. He said they were all factory trimmed. The Hankook are more expensive then the nf0's so doesn't feel like he was just making stuff up. It's in his interest to sell tyres.
 

whitex

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I honestly have no idea. All I know is what he told me and I saw the N0 tyre upright on the ground leaning to one side (not much but maybe 2 degree). I should have taken a pic but didn't thought of it at the time. He said they were all factory trimmed. The Hankook are more expensive then the nf0's so doesn't feel like he was just making stuff up. It's in his interest to sell tyres.
The one you saw, was it mounted on a wheel?
 


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tchavei

tchavei

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The one you saw, was it mounted on a wheel?
No it wasn't. I know what you're thinking but I don't know if it could be from storage. The tyres in the shop are all stored vertically in tyre racks with rollers inside. Not sure.

Do you think the "trimm" story is just hocus pocus?

I mean, he likes Bridgestone personally (they don't make the size for the Taycan even) and before the N0 convo he was showing me the wall strength resistances among different tyre brands. Really shocking as I compared no-name tyre walls and those from good brands like Bridgestone. I couldn't move the side wall by hand on the Bridgestone but could totally bend it on some toyo and some firelli (whatever that is).
 

whitex

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No it wasn't. I know what you're thinking but I don't know if it could be from storage. The tyres in the shop are all stored vertically in tyre racks with rollers inside. Not sure.

Do you think the "trimm" story is just hocus pocus?

I mean, he likes Bridgestone personally (they don't make the size for the Taycan even) and before the N0 convo he was showing me the wall strength resistances among different tyre brands. Really shocking as I compared no-name tyre walls and those from good brands like Bridgestone. I couldn't move the side wall by hand on the Bridgestone but could totally bend it on some toyo and some corelli (whatever that is).
Actually I'm thinkin how can sidewall trimming make an unmounted tire tilt. Was enough of it trimmed that it caused that side to be lighter so the tire leaned towards the untrimmed/heaver side? Then again, you could argue that the untrimmed side has more sidewall and therefore more rigidity, so maybe it leaned towards the trimmed side? Honestly, something doesn't add up here for me. I'm no tire expert, but an initial "sniff tests" is suggesting this may be an urban legend. Perhaps some unmounted tires have a tendency to lean, so someone made up a theory which "made sense" to some people, so they believed it. 🤷‍♂️

EDIT: Another thought, if you trim the sidewall, it will create a larger opening for the wheel, so it would affect the tire-to-wheel seal. This story is definitely not adding up.
 

whitex

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The only way this would make sense is if the tire was actually made with more sidewall on one side and literally tilted tread surface (i.e. outside tire diameter larger on the outside than inside tread surface), but then they would definitely have to make separate left vs. right tires. Given all the info so far, I'm leaning (pun intended) towards fake news/urban legend.
 
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tchavei

tchavei

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The only way this would make sense is if the tire was actually made with more sidewall on one side and literally tilted tread surface (i.e. outside tire diameter larger on the outside than inside tread surface), but then they would definitely have to make separate left vs. right tires. Given all the info so far, I'm leaning (PUN intended) towards fake news/urban legend.
Maybe but I did saw the thing leaning to one side. By trimming I understood it was the profile that was cut at an angle. Not the sidewall. The thread depth wasn't equal around the cross section
 

whitex

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Maybe but I did saw the thing leaning to one side. By trimming I understood it was the profile that was cut at an angle. Not the sidewall. The thread depth wasn't equal around the cross section
Hmm... how is that different than it wearing out naturally until the inside tread "trims itself"? That would make those trimmed tires "pre-worn" or "broken-in"?
 
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tchavei

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In any case, me going with NF0 has more with warranty stuff then anything. I mean, I can see my local dealer being an ass about it.

Otherwise I would probably risk it.
 
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tchavei

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Hmm... how is that different than it wearing out naturally until the inside tread "trims itself"?
Maybe nothing. That's what he said "it's gonna chew up your inner sides in no time"
 

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N-spec tire threads are almost as bad as oil threads, especially in forums like Rennlist, it’s brutal. It’s good to see a civilized discussion.

I’m not sure I buy the trimmed description as I’ve been running N-spec tires for decades and never noticed. However, I’ve had many a tire that listed to one side from all manufacturers when standing unmounted, regardless of manufacturers spec. It’s usually caused by sidewall construction or tread design (more large blocks or a “slick” style design means they’re more “rubber” and more weight on that side of the tread).

If a tire has a specific tread design for the inner and outer contact patch or a different inside vs. outside sidewall construction it will have “OUTSIDE” printed on the sidewall. That has nothing to do with directional tread. Tires that have directional tread will have an arrow on the sidewall indicating the direction of travel. A tire can’t have both unless they have different tires for left and right. That is extremely rare, I haven’t seen that since the 90’s.
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