XLR82XS

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Sucks man - sorry to hear. Really sucks about no loaner. I'm blessed to have such a wonderful premier dealer. Agreed about Tesla service - they're the worst in the industry. Good luck!
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Mark

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You can add me with my 2021 Taycan Turbo to the list. I was driving on an Interstate highway and saw the "Engine Control Error" message and advised to find a place to park. The car began decelerating and would not respond to pressing the accelerator pedal. An exit was coming up so I managed to get onto that exit and roll through the stop sign at the bottom of the ramp so that I was half in and half off the shoulder. The car wouldn't move forward or do anything other than continue with the air conditioning (thankfully).

I contacted Porsche through the Breakdown call button on the PCM and they arranged for a towing service to come get the car and take me to the nearby dealership (20 minutes away). It took 3 hours for that to happen. I contacted the dealership in the meantime to see whether they could get me a loaner car or even a ride home. "No" on both.

After 90 minutes, the car turned itself off while we waited for that towing service and I turned it back on to be able to use the air conditioning. It came back on and the message cleared. I was tempted to try driving it to the dealership but I was in a relatively safe place and didn't know whether the car would become un-drivable again, this time perhaps with even a worse safety outcome.

One interesting outcome, though, was that I had the opportunity to test the Taycan battery drain if stopped but operating the air conditioning. Over a little more than 2 hours in the direct sunlight with the outside air temperature of 94-95 F and the "feels like" temperature of just over 100 F. I kept the air conditioning set to keep the car at 71 F. I operated the other controls (like radio and telephone) during that time. The battery charge level dropped a consistent 1% every 25 minutes. I think we can assume this is about the worst case normal situation. So, if you stopped when you were at, say, 70% battery charge, you could stay with everything operating for about 29 hours.

I'll also take a look at the NHTSA website to see about reporting a safety problem.

Besides being able to do nothing to help me in any way whatsoever, the Porsche dealership (Porsche of Hilton Head) says they can't even look at the car for a week so I am without a car with nobody caring in the least. The only worse customer service I've ever had with a car company was with Tesla.

Engine Control Error.jpeg
Please report this failure to NHTSA. Then, demand your dealer investigate/apply the potential fix below if they try to suggest they’ve never heard of this problem.

I called my service advisor to try and preemptively apply this patch. He initially agreed as he was well aware of the issue and then realized because there is not an official recall yet, there is no Porsche policy to apply this patch unless I’ve actually experienced the issue. I pointed out the obvious liability issues if something happens to me due to this issue which he understood. So, he’s trying to find a solution but rest assured I’m not going to give up until I get this patch installed on my car.


https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/motor-control-error-fix-2021.5336/
 

T-Fury

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Just trying to piece some information together here. Is the assumption that this can happen to any of us who have had the software update? Might be a good reason for some people to hold off on the update until this gets sorted. I’m assuming the 2021s are involved because they came off the production line with that software too. So far it seems like this is a software bug that has been introduced with the update but that the underlying hardware is okay. I’m curious if this has happened to anyone within a very short amount of time after starting the car or if the problem takes time to manifest. I saw some articles talking about a relationship to the 12V battery but it seems like a lot of cars are able to restart suggesting the 12V battery is still working in many cases. I suppose this is all just speculation at this point, but if Porsche has some insight into what’s causing it, which they might because of that patch existing, then some communication would be nice. I also recognize though that it’s difficult to put out information if you don’t exactly know what’s going on.

The whole concept of software updates and cars is interesting to me. When the Taycan originally came out I’m sure extensive testing was done on the car before production, but I wonder is it realistic to do the same degree of testing with each individual software update? It would be nice to have a guarantee it wouldn’t make things worse, but bugs seem to inevitable happen despite best efforts whether it‘s a phone, speaker, TV update, etc. I guess it’s time to start hiring the best software engineers along with the best automotive engineers for the electric future.
 

Mark

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Just trying to piece some information together here. Is the assumption that this can happen to any of us who have had the software update? Might be a good reason for some people to hold off on the update until this gets sorted. I’m assuming the 2021s are involved because they came off the production line with that software too. So far it seems like this is a software bug that has been introduced with the update but that the underlying hardware is okay. I’m curious if this has happened to anyone within a very short amount of time after starting the car or if the problem takes time to manifest. I saw some articles talking about a relationship to the 12V battery but it seems like a lot of cars are able to restart suggesting the 12V battery is still working in many cases. I suppose this is all just speculation at this point, but if Porsche has some insight into what’s causing it, which they might because of that patch existing, then some communication would be nice. I also recognize though that it’s difficult to put out information if you don’t exactly know what’s going on.

The whole concept of software updates and cars is interesting to me. When the Taycan originally came out I’m sure extensive testing was done on the car before production, but I wonder is it realistic to do the same degree of testing with each individual software update? It would be nice to have a guarantee it wouldn’t make things worse, but bugs seem to inevitable happen despite best efforts whether it‘s a phone, speaker, TV update, etc. I guess it’s time to start hiring the best software engineers along with the best automotive engineers for the electric future.
Yes, I think the suspicion is that the big WMA5/6 update introduced this bug based on the recency of all the NHTSA power fail cases. My only concern with this new “fix” is what you’re saying: perhaps they’ve introduced yet another bug with this recent fix. Maybe that’s why Porsche is waiting to issue a recall.
 

chrisk

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I guess it’s time to start hiring the best software engineers along with the best automotive engineers for the electric future.
Software errors happen all the time in all devices. I bet if you check your phone's logs you will find many exceptions. What matters is how the software handles these errors. As an experienced sw engineer who has worked in several big sw companies, I am afraid that the Taycan's software is very behind in error handling.

Some examples:
- My ParkAssist becomes unavailable from time to time. If I put the car in Neutral and then back in reverse the error is fixed. A self-recovering software should identify the failure and should restart the ParkAssist module on its own.
- This new bug is alleged to be a synchronization issue between the two motors. If that is the case, the software should disable one axle and continue with the other instead of just dying in the middle of the highway.
- For the 12v battery drainage, the software should detect where the drainage comes from and isolate or restart that component instead of disconnecting the 12v battery and bricking the car.

Basically all these sw glitches that are fixed by restarting the car (i.e. without the need to replace parts), should recover on their own.

They also need to provide true OTA updates because visiting the dealer to get a fix for the fix is frustrating and it costs Porsche labor hours.

As you said, they need to hire the best (and experienced) sw engineers who have the skills to write fault-tolerant and self-recovering software.
 

cgfrndpor

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Just trying to piece some information together here. Is the assumption that this can happen to any of us who have had the software update? Might be a good reason for some people to hold off on the update until this gets sorted. I’m assuming the 2021s are involved because they came off the production line with that software too. So far it seems like this is a software bug that has been introduced with the update but that the underlying hardware is okay. I’m curious if this has happened to anyone within a very short amount of time after starting the car or if the problem takes time to manifest. I saw some articles talking about a relationship to the 12V battery but it seems like a lot of cars are able to restart suggesting the 12V battery is still working in many cases. I suppose this is all just speculation at this point, but if Porsche has some insight into what’s causing it, which they might because of that patch existing, then some communication would be nice. I also recognize though that it’s difficult to put out information if you don’t exactly know what’s going on.

The whole concept of software updates and cars is interesting to me. When the Taycan originally came out I’m sure extensive testing was done on the car before production, but I wonder is it realistic to do the same degree of testing with each individual software update? It would be nice to have a guarantee it wouldn’t make things worse, but bugs seem to inevitable happen despite best efforts whether it‘s a phone, speaker, TV update, etc. I guess it’s time to start hiring the best software engineers along with the best automotive engineers for the electric future.
interesting points.
I had driven the car about 100 mi before it happened to me. My car is a 2021; it did have a software update before delivery because it was manufactured just before an update was released.
 

bj33813

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My 2 cents: At a minimum, when you run into a dealer who is no help at all, and won't provide a loaner in such cases, do a google review and give the dealer 1 star, and forward the review to porsche NA. Might jog them into actually helping their customers. They deserve to go out of business imo.
 

chrisk

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After 3 days living with the DME and PE software patch I noticed the following:

- that little extra throttle response feeling after WMA5 is gone. The car feels a little sluggish like before WMA5.

- while driving around 70mph I switched from Sport to Range mode and the accelerator pedal was not responding for about 5 seconds after the mode switch. I tried 3 times, all 3 times the car had no automotive power for about 5 sec after switching to range mode. No errors and no rapid deaccelaration, the car was just cruising. Acceleration power came back after 5 sec. EDIT: It happens at speeds above 60mph and I can reproduce even after restarting the car. The duration varies between 2 and 5 sec. If I switch to Normal or range power comes back immediately.
 
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Vim Schrotnock

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After 3 days living with the DME and PE software patch I noticed the following:

- that little extra throttle response feeling after WMA5 is gone. The car feels a little sluggish like before WMA5.

- while driving around 70mph I switched from Sport to Range mode and the accelerator pedal was not responding for about 5 seconds after the mode switch. I tried 3 times, all 3 times the car had no automotive power for about 5 sec after switching to range mode. No errors and no rapid deaccelaration, the car was just cruising. Acceleration power came back after 5 sec. EDIT: It happens at speeds above 60mph and I can reproduce even after restarting the car. The duration varies between 2 and 5 sec. If I switch to Normal or range power comes back immediately.
Check that your Range mode isn't limiting your speed to 60 mph. That would explain the loss of power above 60. I had this experience several times on a trip and it was disconcerting. I switched into 'Range' mode and 'lost power' immediately because I was doing 70 and it had a limit of 60mph on the speed. Pretty weird, but I think the Range mode calculation was based on getting to some destination that required me to be very conservative with speed, or some reason I'm not aware of. I would definitely double check that this isn't the case for you.
 
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Check that your Range mode isn't limiting your speed to 60 mph. That would explain the loss of power above 60. I had this experience several times on a trip and it was disconcerting. I switched into 'Range' mode and 'lost power' immediately because I was doing 70 and it had a limit of 60mph on the speed. Pretty weird, but I think the Range mode calculation was based on getting to some destination that required me to be very conservative with speed, or some reason I'm not aware of. I would definitely double check that this isn't the case for you.
I dialed mine up to the max (85 mph if I remember well) for the same reason.
 

epirali

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I dialed mine up to the max (85 mph if I remember well) for the same reason.
same here and I NEVER happen to hit that limit, because I NEVER speed…ahem…ahem….

FYI if you put the accelerator to the floor it will override the limit, or so I’m told.
 
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Kingske

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same here and I NEVER happen to hit that limit, because I NEVER speed…ahem…ahem….

FYI if you put the accelerator to the floor it will override the limit, or so I’m told.
... told by a friend of a friend, I suppose?
 

submatrix

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- This new bug is alleged to be a synchronization issue between the two motors. If that is the case, the software should disable one axle and continue with the other instead of just dying in the middle of the highway.
I'm very curious if this is indeed the case, because it would imply that the RWD model is not affected by the bug (which would ease my mind, as a RWD owner).
 

NC_Taycan

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I thought it was a communication synchronization issue between the DME and the rear motor (DME is Digital Motor Electronics). One thread mentioned an error when communications between the two are out of sync, the DME gets an impossible axle position reading from the motor sensor. Point is, you may not be safe assuming an RWD Taycan is immune...
 

Jhenson29

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One thread mentioned an error when communications between the two are out of sync, the DME gets an impossible axle position reading from the motor sensor.
That’s interesting. PM motors require an absolute rotor position reference to run.

They aren’t like induction motors where you can just just rotate the magnetic field and generate torque from slip.

If the drive had a bad rotor position reference, it would not be able to control the motor properly. Depending on how far off the reference is, it can either develop low torque for the amount of current or even no torque at full current.
 
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