[North America] - Porsche Official Charging Related Porsche NTSB Article - analysis

[daveo4EV]

Porsche seems to be wising up - this is mostly across the board good excellent information and I agree with 99% of it - very interesting that Porsche is now recommending AGAINST using L1 charging with their charger for daily use or for more than 12 hours

this is a huge step forward in educating dealers and customers - and the recommendations are solid, conservative and good advice for _ANY_ EVSE install for any EV you are considering purchasing.

https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2022/MC-10222530-0001.pdf

pdf attached to this thread in case it goes missing from the nhtsa site.

Article Analysis and interesting bits in my opinion:

Page 1

• covers _ALL_ porsche EV's and Hybrids
• covers all NEMA based Porsche EVSE's (PMC, PMC+, PMCC)

Page 2

• documents use of Hubble 14-50 & 6-50 (3 wire) plug recommendation with part numbers - this is EXCELLENT advice and should be followed 100%
• use 6 gauge wire for 50 amp circuit - this is excellent advice and exceeds US building code (8 gauge) minimum requirements (this is interesting as well in the context of their 10 gauge wire powersupply cable)
• the "caution" on Page 2 is interesting in an attempt to shift blame to low quality NEMA plugs - they are not wrong, but perhaps if their underspec 10 gauge power supply cable could/would NOT achieve operating temperatures +90F to ambient conditions the cheaper/lesser quality NEMA plugs wouldn't be melting
• also interesting on Page 2 is Porsches recommendation of not using L1/120V charging for "daily" use or more than 12 hours - I do not think this is a problem w/Porsche EVSE's per-say - but rather most North American 120V/15 amp electrical circuits are not designed to run at "max" power for 72 hours straight (the time it would take to charge a Taycan from empty at 1.44 kW) - so I think their EVSE is fine and has no issues - but I would agree it's probalby not a good idea to pull "MAX" power for more than 12 hours on 99% of pre-existing 120V/15 amp/NEMA 5-15 power sockets
  • I think this advice can be ignored if you've installed a dedicated NEMA 5-15 plug for EV charging with wire that is "over-spec" (12 gauge or better) and a high high high quality NEMA plug-socket - I'm not sure of any source for a "high quality" high durability NEMA 5-15 outlet - I welcome recommendations from the community
  • I agree with this advice 100% for most pre-existing NEMA 5-15 plug sockets in most residential environments in North America
  • I'm wondering also if there are issues here with Taycan's battery/on-board charging hardware running for so long at low kW's - there have been rumblings that porsche's on board charging hardware doesn't "like" low amp 120V feeds (porsche has official recommendation to not charge below 8 amps)
  • not sure how porsche feels about a NEMA 5-20 circuit - 5-20 circuits will tend to have higher quality installed - but still will take days of running at full capacity to charge a Taycan…
  • 99.9% of existing 120V/15 amp residential circuits in North America are "shared" circuits (multiple outlets) - so honestly having one of those plugs pulling max power and having other applicance plugged in elsewhere on the same circuit is a BAD idea
    • think electrical heater, microwave, and coffee maker, hair dryer all sharing the same circuit breaker - it's just bad juju
    • now add in an EVSE pulling 80% of the rated circuit load - boom - if your breaker doesn't pop it's going to go very very very badly for this circuit
    • I like this advice from Porsche and I'm going to adopt it (great artists steal) - really honestly do not use L1 charging for more than 12 hours - not for the sake of your EVSE or your vehicle, but most 120V/15 amp/NEMA 5-15 electrical circuits installed in the past 100 years are simply not up to the task - this is EXCELLENT advice.
  • I thiink Porsche's advice here is really really spot on - most $3 residentical grade NEMA 5-15 sockets really really are not design for constant power draw at near max power for 12-70+ hours with no reduction in power draw for that entire period
  • I think Porsche is spot on here and I think we should all consider "backing" them here on this recommendation and repositioning of L1 charging as "emergency" use only - not a vehicle charging plan.
• warnings that really really "hot" is NOT a defect - again they are not wrong, but other 9.6 kW EVSE's do not run as hot as Porsche's EVSE so theirs while safe could easily be designed to not achieve the temps it achieves - no other mobile EVSE I've encountered runs "hot" like the Porsche one does.
• Porsche is doubling down on their assertion that their +90F-+110F expected temperature rise on their supply cable (as documented in public/engineering standards tables for 10 gauge wire with 40 amp usage) is not their problem that it will cause low quality NEMA plugs to melt (cheap plastics melt at 150F or greater operating temperature). Other EVSE's using higher quality NEMA power supply cables (8 & 6 gauge) only have a +20/+40F temp rise+ambient - thereby stressing the NEMA socket less…perhaps avoiding this awkward interaction with low quality NEMA plugs

Pages 3-11

• Detailed "campaign" instructions as to where to place the warning sticker on the different PMCx units
  • it is interesting to note that in arbitration with Porsche regarding the PMCC "nerfing" discovery requests could find _NO_ official/consistent/authoritative definition of what the iconography of the warning sticker actually means - no one at porsche could provide any guidance as to what the Icon on the sticker are meant to covey…
• inventory of the "campaign" steps/items to do for each customer.

Sponsored

 

[tigerbalm]

If they put as much effort into the EVSE as they do with the revised exact positioning of the new stickers ...

 

[daveo4EV]

the most telling and awkward part of this article is their insistence of using 6 gauge wire to "feed" their woefully inadequate 10 gauge power supply cable...they are essentially admitting that 10 gauge wire is not up to the task (so Porsche, my 50 amp circuit needs 6 gauge wire? but your 50 amp power supply cable is good w/10 gauge wire? - that's like shoving 50 lbs of flour into a 30 lbs bag and wondering why there are problems)

I also believe 8 gauge wire is sufficient to pass inspection for 50 amp circuit in most of North American (and a fine choice) - but I'm all "in" w/Porsche on recommending 6 gauge 90C wire - it's "over spec" and an excellent and very conservative recommendation. Given EVSE's ability to run solid for 8-10 hours at 9.6 kW I can endorse and highly recommend Porsche's advise for 6 gauge wire - it will only make things "better" and the whole thing will run "cooler" - it's excellent excellent advice.

now if only they would follow their own advice and upgrade/replace the PMC/PMC+/PMCC NEMA 14-50/6-50 power supply cables with 6 gauge wire variants their EVSE maybe would no longer get hot enough to melt cheap NEMA outlets.

 

[daveo4EV]

It's interesting to note - Porsche's Sept. 2022 NTSB article no longer recommends using 120V charging - only for "emergency" use and for no more than 12 hours.

I believe this to be good advice, and I think it has more to do with the average quality of pre-existing 120V circuits in 99.9% of north american homes - and I can agree with it - most/all 120V/15 amp circuits really are not designed or provisioned to run at near max (80%) capacity for hours on end (it can take 14-16 hours to charge a Cayenne and over 72 hours to Charge a Taycan (or more than 100 hours to charge the upcoming Macan EV) - 99.9% of residential 120V circuits are just not rated for that duration of continuous load - and if you're doing this several times a week the accumulated thermal stress over months and years could be significant, and eventually cause some wire insulation to fail…wire heats up during charging (expands) - charging stops wire cools down (contracts) - so you have this thermal-breathing happening (wire getting bigger and then smaller) this expansion/contraction stress the plastic thermal insulation which is also expanding/contracting and from the heat is warm & mushy - doing htis over years and it will eventually crack and potentiallly fail allowing a short circuit…the way to avoid this is to lower the thermal load, and the way to lower the thermal load is thicker wire (14 gauge instead of 16 gauge or 12 gauge instead of 14 gauge) - you can pass "code" for a 120V/15 amp circuit with 20/18 gauge wire - that wire is going to get really really hot pulling 1.44 kW for 12 hours while charging your Cayenne…

I'm going to adopt porsche's advice here and no longer recommend anyone really honestly consider using a 120V/15 amp circuit for daily charging duty for their Hybrid or EV

I would "allow" it if you install a dedicated 120V circuit on upgraded wire (14/12/10 gauge) - no shared plugs - but by the time you're doing this just install a 240V circuit and that matches Porsche's recommendation from this NTSB article as well and is good/solid advice. 240V charging will both charge your EV/Hybrid faster and place less accumulated thermal load on the wire when it takes only 2 hours to charge your Cayenne instead of 14 hours…over weeks/months/years the accumulated thermal-hours of load will be significantly less for 240V vs. 120V.

 

[whitex]

It's interesting to note - Porsche's Sept. 2022 NTSB article no longer recommends using 120V charging - only for "emergency" use and for no more than 12 hours.

I believe this to be good advice, and I think it has more to do with the average quality of pre-existing 120V circuits in 99.9% of north american homes - and I can agree with it - most/all 120V/15 amp circuits really are not designed or provisioned to run at near max (80%) capacity for hours on end (it can take 14-16 hours to charge a Cayenne and over 72 hours to Charge a Taycan (or more than 100 hours to charge the upcoming Macan EV) - 99.9% of residential 120V circuits are just not rated for that duration of continuous load - and if you're doing this several times a week the accumulated thermal stress over months and years could be significant, and eventually cause some wire insulation to fail…wire heats up during charging (expands) - charging stops wire cools down (contracts) - so you have this thermal-breathing happening (wire getting bigger and then smaller) this expansion/contraction stress the plastic thermal insulation which is also expanding/contracting and from the heat is warm & mushy - doing htis over years and it will eventually crack and potentiallly fail allowing a short circuit…the way to avoid this is to lower the thermal load, and the way to lower the thermal load is thicker wire (14 gauge instead of 16 gauge or 12 gauge instead of 14 gauge) - you can pass "code" for a 120V/15 amp circuit with 20/18 gauge wire - that wire is going to get really really hot pulling 1.44 kW for 12 hours while charging your Cayenne…

I'm going to adopt porsche's advice here and no longer recommend anyone really honestly consider using a 120V/15 amp circuit for daily charging duty for their Hybrid or EV

I would "allow" it if you install a dedicated 120V circuit on upgraded wire (14/12/10 gauge) - no shared plugs - but by the time you're doing this just install a 240V circuit and that matches Porsche's recommendation from this NTSB article as well and is good/solid advice. 240V charging will both charge your EV/Hybrid faster and place less accumulated thermal load on the wire when it takes only 2 hours to charge your Cayenne instead of 14 hours…over weeks/months/years the accumulated thermal-hours of load will be significantly less for 240V vs. 120V.

According to a PCNA employee I spoke with recently, charging at Level 1 will "kill your Taycan’s 12V battery". He claimed it was because the 12V battery will drain to 0 because 12V battery is used by the electronics during charging but is only charged when driving. I thought that problem was solved long ago, no? So I’m thinking there are multiple possibilities:

1. This advice is outdated, but still hanging around PCNA as an "urban myth"
2. They stopped topping off 12V battery while charging (whether on purpose or feature regression they didn’t catch in latest software which they cannot fix over the air)
3. Their “barely safe” engineering extends beyond just EVSE but also into the car electronics. Perhaps some car electronics also use bare minimum specs and that causes the MTBF of the design to be low, so keeping the electronics on is accumulating runtime too fast.
4. They don’t run the car’s electronics from shore power while charging, but rather from the battery which they top off when it gets too low. Charging for many hours then causes the 12V to accumulate charge-discharge cycles faster than anticipated, leading to an early demise of the 12V battery. So maybe the PNCA guy was right that it kills the 12V battery, just not the way he thought.
5. Maybe their EVSE's power electronics MTBF while charging is also barely meeting whatever specs, and keeping Porsche EVSE's charging is wearing them out faster than anticipated.

Their AWG10 EVSE wires are way sufficient for Level 1 charging, so I don't think they will be melting any sockets at Level 1. Other EV manufacturers don't recommend against Level 1 charging, heck, VW ID.4 only comes with Level 1 charger. While bad wiring could be an issue, that is always an issue with installing any electrical device you plug in your home. If Level 1 chargers actually presented a real danger, they would probably get banned in North America.

The fact that NEMA 5-15 sockets are oversubscribed (shared) is also not a big safety issue, since if you are charging at 12A for hours, you would need another appliance pulling close to 3A but not more for 4+hrs to potentially cause an issue. I have a server closet in my home office pulling 8-11A 24/7 for almost 2 decades now from a $2 plug, no issues with overheating (checked with FLIR as I tend to be overcautious).

A good onboard charger would monitor the voltage drop during the session and adjust down the charging current if charging current is causing too much voltage drop, indicating that there is a high resistance somewhere in the path, perhaps plug not inserted all the way, loose connection somewhere, worn out plug, other load on the line with wires too small, or even the J1772 bad/burned plug (I have seen reports of such burned out pins at public chargers) - you could do that at the EVSE level too but it will not detect J1772 plug issues, plus from what I read here Taycan balks at EVSE reducing available current when charging on timers instead of optimized charging enabled.

Last but not least, good mobile EVSE's have temperature sensors in the plug too, so they can detect and react to plugs overheating. Is it that Porsche cannot learn from other EV manufacturers, or is it their hubris that makes them think they know better?

 

[daveo4EV]

According to a PCNA employee I spoke with recently, charging at Level 1 will "kill your Taycan’s 12V battery". He claimed it was because the 12V battery will drain to 0 because 12V battery is used by the electronics during charging but is only charged when driving. I thought that problem was solved long ago, no? So I’m thinking there are multiple possibilities:

1. This advise is outdated, but still hanging around PCNA as an "urban myth"
2. They stopped topping off 12V battery while charging (whether on purpose or feature regression they didn’t catch in latest software which they cannot fix over the air)
3. Their “barely safe” engineering extends beyond just EVSE but also into the car electronics. Perhaps some car electronics also use bare minimum specs and that causes the MTBF of the design to be low, so keeping the electronics on is accumulating runtime too fast.
4. They don’t run the car’s electronics from shore power while charging, but rather from the battery which they top off when it gets too low. Charging for many hours then causes the 12V to accumulate charge-discharge cycles faster than anticipated, leading to an early demise of the 12V battery. So maybe the PNCA guys was right that it kills the 12V battery, just not the way he thought.
5. Maybe their EVSE's power electronics MTBF while charging is also barely meeting whatever specs, and keeping Porsche EVSE's charging is wearing them out faster than anticipated.

Their AWG10 EVSE wires are way sufficient for Level 1 charging, so I don't think they will be melting any sockets at Level 1. Other EV manufacturers don't recommend against Level 1 charging, heck, VW ID.4 only comes with Level 1 charger. While bad wiring could be an issue, that is always an issue with installing any electrical device you plug in your home. If Level 1 chargers actually presented a real danger, they would probably get banned in North America.

The fact that NEMA 5-15 sockets are oversubscribed (shared) is also not a big safety issue, since if you are charging at 12A for hours, you would need another appliance pulling close to 3A but not more for 4+hrs to potentially cause an issue. I have a server closet in my home office pulling 8-11A 24/7 for almost 2 decades now from a $2 plug, no issues with overheating (checked with FLIR as I tend to be overcautious).

A good onboard charger would monitor the voltage drop during the session and adjust down the charging current if charging current is causing too much voltage drop, indicating that there is a high resistance somewhere in the path, perhaps plug not inserted all the way, loose connection somewhere, worn out plug, other load on the line with wires too small, or even the J1772 bad/burned plug (I have seen reports of such burned out pins at public chargers) - you could do that at the EVSE level too but it will not detect J1772 plug issues, plus from what I read here Taycan balks at EVSE reducing available current when charging on timers instead of optimized charging enabled.

Last but not least, good mobile EVSE's have temperature sensors in the plug too, so they can detect and react to plugs overheating. Is it that Porsche cannot learn from other EV manufacturers, or is it their hubris that makes them think they know better?

Hubris - I mean that sincerely - I believe they still 100% believe the problem is not their crappy supply cable, but those stupid american's using $12 NEMA 14-50 power outlets (they are not entirely wrong - but their cable thermally stresses the hell out of a NEMA socket - one could argue they could be less stressful to their host sockets) - our 162F power supply cable is not the problem (which by the way with 6 gauge wire would cost less to make than the cost of the Hubble power socket they are recommending)

their cable may be "technically correct" given insulation and wire gauge - but a different wire gauge would run cooler and be less stressful to the host socket. The cheap NEMA socket isn't melting itself - it's absorbing heat from the Porsche supply cable - and over the course of days/weeks/months it gradually fails given the thermal stress it's been subjected to from the Porsche supply cable's normal operating temperatures. A different power supply cable design would have lower normal operating temperatures - and thereby transfer less heat to the crappy $12 NEMA socket…while Porsche's cable may not be "at fault" it's at least contributory negligence - their cable design demands a higher quality NEMA socket that has more robust thermal characteristics. Their design unnecessarily thermally overwhelms lesser sockets.

 

[daveo4EV]

According to a PCNA employee I spoke with recently, charging at Level 1 will "kill your Taycan’s 12V battery". He claimed it was because the 12V battery will drain to 0 because 12V battery is used by the electronics during charging but is only charged when driving. I thought that problem was solved long ago, no? So I’m thinking there are multiple possibilities:

1. This advice is outdated, but still hanging around PCNA as an "urban myth"
2. They stopped topping off 12V battery while charging (whether on purpose or feature regression they didn’t catch in latest software which they cannot fix over the air)
3. Their “barely safe” engineering extends beyond just EVSE but also into the car electronics. Perhaps some car electronics also use bare minimum specs and that causes the MTBF of the design to be low, so keeping the electronics on is accumulating runtime too fast.
4. They don’t run the car’s electronics from shore power while charging, but rather from the battery which they top off when it gets too low. Charging for many hours then causes the 12V to accumulate charge-discharge cycles faster than anticipated, leading to an early demise of the 12V battery. So maybe the PNCA guys was right that it kills the 12V battery, just not the way he thought.
5. Maybe their EVSE's power electronics MTBF while charging is also barely meeting whatever specs, and keeping Porsche EVSE's charging is wearing them out faster than anticipated.

Their AWG10 EVSE wires are way sufficient for Level 1 charging, so I don't think they will be melting any sockets at Level 1. Other EV manufacturers don't recommend against Level 1 charging, heck, VW ID.4 only comes with Level 1 charger. While bad wiring could be an issue, that is always an issue with installing any electrical device you plug in your home. If Level 1 chargers actually presented a real danger, they would probably get banned in North America.

The fact that NEMA 5-15 sockets are oversubscribed (shared) is also not a big safety issue, since if you are charging at 12A for hours, you would need another appliance pulling close to 3A but not more for 4+hrs to potentially cause an issue. I have a server closet in my home office pulling 8-11A 24/7 for almost 2 decades now from a $2 plug, no issues with overheating (checked with FLIR as I tend to be overcautious).

A good onboard charger would monitor the voltage drop during the session and adjust down the charging current if charging current is causing too much voltage drop, indicating that there is a high resistance somewhere in the path, perhaps plug not inserted all the way, loose connection somewhere, worn out plug, other load on the line with wires too small, or even the J1772 bad/burned plug (I have seen reports of such burned out pins at public chargers) - you could do that at the EVSE level too but it will not detect J1772 plug issues, plus from what I read here Taycan balks at EVSE reducing available current when charging on timers instead of optimized charging enabled.

Last but not least, good mobile EVSE's have temperature sensors in the plug too, so they can detect and react to plugs overheating. Is it that Porsche cannot learn from other EV manufacturers, or is it their hubris that makes them think they know better?

thank you for this - I appreciate the time and thoughtful ness of this post for an honest discussion on the topic.

While I agree with most of the Porsche NTSB bulletin in question - I do believe it demonstrates a weakness in Porsche's EVSE North American approach and they are playing catch up…not leading the way.

No other EVSE I've owned since 2011 gets to 164F in ambient 64F environment during normal/routine 9.6 kw charging sessions - they can say all they want that their charger getting hot is not a product defect - and they are right it's behaving as designed - but there are competitive products for as little as $200 that run much cooler performing the same duty. Their design may not be defective, but it's thermal performance envelope is unnecessary, especially for a premium product at an exorbitant price point.

the 12 hour limit on 120V charging while I agree with it in principal - I'm not sure I'm right in my speculation as to why they are doing it and appreicate @whitex's thoughts and comments on the subject - again I think this is them spinning a weakness as an "teachable moment"…

Porsche's North American AC EVSE charging game is weak and expensive - I hope they do better with the EV Macan.

 

[whitex]

What would nice to know is what temperature was reached by your supply cables (as far away from the EVSE as possible since it will be pushing heat to those cables too). Better yet, have a comparison of all these temperatures when using Tesla WC vs. Porsche's PMCC or PMWC, drawing the same current in the same ambient temp.

 

[daveo4EV]

What would nice to know is what temperature was reached by your supply cables (as far away from the EVSE as possible since it will be pushing heat to those cables too). Better yet, have a comparison of all these temperatures when using Tesla WC vs. Porsche's PMCC or PMWC, drawing the same current in the same ambient temp.

my Tesla wall chargers supply cables never break above 90F-95F - I've measured them @ 48 amps…6 gauge wire - the Porsche stuff is just so so so bad.

 

[snstevens]

my Tesla wall chargers supply cables never break above 90F-95F - I've measured them @ 48 amps…6 gauge wire - the Porsche stuff is just so so so bad.

Dave -

There are two cables on the PMCC - one that connects to the NEMA 14-50 connector and the other to the J1772 connector in the car. What is your thought about Porsche sending each customer a 6 or 8 AWG replacement for the cable that connects the NEMA 14-50 plug to the PMCC?

According to your temperature tests, that seems to be the only cable that is reaching temps >90ºF, so perhaps this would resolve 90% of the issues that cause shutdown during charging and/or destruction of the NEMA plug.

To me this seems like a low-cost resolution, if it would work.

Thoughts?

 

[daveo4EV]

Dave -

There are two cables on the PMCC - one that connects to the NEMA 14-50 connector and the other to the J1772 connector in the car. What is your thought about Porsche sending each customer a 6 or 8 AWG replacement for the cable that connects the NEMA 14-50 plug to the PMCC?

According to your temperature tests, that seems to be the only cable that is reaching temps >90ºF, so perhaps this would resolve 90% of the issues that cause shutdown during charging and/or destruction of the NEMA plug.

To me this seems like a low-cost resolution, if it would work.

Thoughts?

I agree 100% - the only problem is the power supply cable - the NEMA 14-50 and 6-50 cables are woefully inadequate

the power supply cables need to be replaced/upgraded - and this should've been done months ago - this solution should work across the product line (VW, Audi, Porsche).

 

[Avantgarde]

According to a PCNA employee I spoke with recently, charging at Level 1 will "kill your Taycan’s 12V battery". He claimed it was because the 12V battery will drain to 0 because 12V battery is used by the electronics during charging but is only charged when driving. I thought that problem was solved long ago, no? So I’m thinking there are multiple possibilities:

1. This advice is outdated, but still hanging around PCNA as an "urban myth"
2. They stopped topping off 12V battery while charging (whether on purpose or feature regression they didn’t catch in latest software which they cannot fix over the air)
3. Their “barely safe” engineering extends beyond just EVSE but also into the car electronics. Perhaps some car electronics also use bare minimum specs and that causes the MTBF of the design to be low, so keeping the electronics on is accumulating runtime too fast.
4. They don’t run the car’s electronics from shore power while charging, but rather from the battery which they top off when it gets too low. Charging for many hours then causes the 12V to accumulate charge-discharge cycles faster than anticipated, leading to an early demise of the 12V battery. So maybe the PNCA guy was right that it kills the 12V battery, just not the way he thought.
5. Maybe their EVSE's power electronics MTBF while charging is also barely meeting whatever specs, and keeping Porsche EVSE's charging is wearing them out faster than anticipated.

Their AWG10 EVSE wires are way sufficient for Level 1 charging, so I don't think they will be melting any sockets at Level 1. Other EV manufacturers don't recommend against Level 1 charging, heck, VW ID.4 only comes with Level 1 charger. While bad wiring could be an issue, that is always an issue with installing any electrical device you plug in your home. If Level 1 chargers actually presented a real danger, they would probably get banned in North America.

The fact that NEMA 5-15 sockets are oversubscribed (shared) is also not a big safety issue, since if you are charging at 12A for hours, you would need another appliance pulling close to 3A but not more for 4+hrs to potentially cause an issue. I have a server closet in my home office pulling 8-11A 24/7 for almost 2 decades now from a $2 plug, no issues with overheating (checked with FLIR as I tend to be overcautious).

A good onboard charger would monitor the voltage drop during the session and adjust down the charging current if charging current is causing too much voltage drop, indicating that there is a high resistance somewhere in the path, perhaps plug not inserted all the way, loose connection somewhere, worn out plug, other load on the line with wires too small, or even the J1772 bad/burned plug (I have seen reports of such burned out pins at public chargers) - you could do that at the EVSE level too but it will not detect J1772 plug issues, plus from what I read here Taycan balks at EVSE reducing available current when charging on timers instead of optimized charging enabled.

Last but not least, good mobile EVSE's have temperature sensors in the plug too, so they can detect and react to plugs overheating. Is it that Porsche cannot learn from other EV manufacturers, or is it their hubris that makes them think they know better?

This really sucks for me. I just lost $3000, maybe more. I have been absolutely fine with L1 charging, topping off ~18 hrs once a week and some EA DC charging. I drive my taycan 2-3 times a week tops, and when i take it out, drive maximum 30-40 miles at a time. Some occasional but planned 100-120 mile weekend trips once in a while. Have a reliable EA station 5 minutes from my house. There is reasonable possibility we'd move to another house in the next 5 years.

I am pissed that they nailed the car but f'ed up the most simple part of the equation. Overheating, 50% BS and now no L1 charging?

 

[slothinker]

Hubris - I mean that sincerely - I believe they still 100% believe the problem is not their crappy supply cable, but those stupid american's using $12 NEMA 14-50 power outlets (they are not entirely wrong - but their cable thermally stresses the hell out of a NEMA socket - one could argue they could be less stressful to their host sockets) - our 162F power supply cable is not the problem (which by the way with 6 gauge wire would cost less to make than the cost of the Hubble power socket they are recommending)

their cable may be "technically correct" given insulation and wire gauge - but a different wire gauge would run cooler and be less stressful to the host socket. The cheap NEMA socket isn't melting itself - it's absorbing heat from the Porsche supply cable - and over the course of days/weeks/months it gradually fails given the thermal stress it's been subjected to from the Porsche supply cable's normal operating temperatures. A different power supply cable design would have lower normal operating temperatures - and thereby transfer less heat to the crappy $12 NEMA socket…while Porsche's cable may not be "at fault" it's at least contributory negligence - their cable design demands a higher quality NEMA socket that has more robust thermal characteristics. Their design unnecessarily thermally overwhelms lesser sockets.

I've also tested my unit running at 40 amps. Even on hot days I'm not seeing anything like these reported (very high) temperatures. That said, since these reports surfaced I began mostly charging the Taycan at night, esp. in the summer.

 

[whitex]

• I think this advice can be ignored if you've installed a dedicated NEMA 5-15 plug for EV charging with wire that is "over-spec" (12 gauge or better) and a high high high quality NEMA plug-socket - I'm not sure of any source for a "high quality" high durability NEMA 5-15 outlet - I welcome recommendations from the community

Since you asked, if someone couldn't or didn't want to run a NEMA 14-50 or 14-30, and was telling me they plan to install a dedicated NEMA 5-15 which is sized for 15A/continuous usage of 12A, I would suggest they replace it with a 240V 15V socket instead, then charge same current, twice the power.

That said, if running a wire anyways, I'd say spec it for 20A/16A continuous, the run it at 240V as well.

You will of course need an EVSE which can be turned down to 12A or 16A.

 

[ssim]

@daveo4EV David -- I called PCNA today, and they said that 'WMP2' doesn't show-up for my 2022 CT4...does that mean my PMCC (the $1,120 EVSE) isn't software limited to 50%? I bought the Tesla J1772 home (hardwired) EVSE, but I want to go after PCNA and open a claim...to see if I can squeeze anything out of them. I took delivery 8/2022 lol. Was my PMCC already limited to 50% once I took delivery, hence no need for the WMP2 campaign?

I'd appreciate your guidance! Thank you for being an awesome resource on here

Sponsored