[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

[WasserGKuehlt]

Pulling the update is inconsistent with shipping new units at half rate. I would expect a quiet stop sale on the units, and an equally silent part update. They will probably settle individual claims privately - either with an exchange for the revised part(s) or "gestures of good will".

(As I'm sure you know, the last group of digits of the part number is the iteration index; as an example of "keeping at it", the current P/N for the coolant expansion tank on the 996 is .06. It'd be interesting to track the P/N of their EVSEs in the coming months.)

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[daveo4EV]

Pulling the update is inconsistent with shipping new units at half rate. I would expect a quiet stop sale on the units, and an equally silent part update. They will probably settle individual claims privately - either with an exchange for the revised part(s) or "gestures of good will".

(As I'm sure you know, the last group of digits of the part number is the iteration index; as an example of "keeping at it", the current P/N for the coolant expansion tank on the 996 is .06. It'd be interesting to track the P/N of their EVSEs in the coming months.)

I agree with you in spirit - stop sale - but there a few issues

1. porsche does not provide alternative EVSE recommendations
2. stopping the sale of these EVSE means they can not deliver EV's with a home charging solution (see item #1)
3. they've pulled the update, but porsche claims the update was for safety reasons, so they either ship the units "nerfed" or they have a safety issue - which is it Porsche?
4. the unit's themselves are probably ok - the iteration will most likely occur on the power supply cable

if they stop the sale of the EVSE - how do they deliver vehicles? (Hybrid's included).

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

Depending on how much they want to spend, they can continue selling the PMC+ at half rate (and if you change it it's on you), and put a stop sale only on the PMCC (for the Taycan, as part of the order; if you buy the EVSE as a standalone product, then again you're on your own). If they're inclined to do/spend more, they could offer an equivalent product in lieu of, or give folks a voucher good for $500-or-so third-party EVSE. (Presumably they read your posts and are aware what's the going rate for a decent EVSE ;-))

 

[whitex]

2. stopping the sale of these EVSE means they can not deliver EV's with a home charging solution (see item #1)
[...]
if they stop the sale of the EVSE - how do they deliver vehicles? (Hybrid's included).

They don't need to deliver EVSE with every EV. Their parent company VW delivers ID.4's with a pettily 120V Level 1 charger only, and recommend Electrify America home chargers. iPhones ship without chargers.

3. they've pulled the update, but porsche claims the update was for safety reasons, so they either ship the units "nerfed" or they have a safety issue - which is it Porsche?

You are looking for logic in corporate messaging. A futile search in my experience. Not much different than looking for logic in political statements. Both are just branches of public relations,

 

[daveo4EV]

They don't need to deliver EVSE with every EV. Their parent company VW delivers ID.4's with a pettily 120V Level 1 charger only, and recommend Electrify America home chargers. iPhones ship without chargers.


You are looking for logic in corporate messaging. A futile search in my experience. Not much different than looking for logic in political statements. Both are just branches of public relations,

I agree - but if you current ask Porsche for a recomendation about an alternate "home EVSE" you'll simply hear crickets - and the documentation claims the battery warranty is void if you use a "non Porsche charger" - which is ridicuous but it's still there...

Porsche is ill-equipped to admit their EVSE sucks, and what they would tell customer to get instead if one did not come with the vehicle

perhaps they should recommend this…48 amp max capacity and can be personalized with different colored face plates…I'll look forward to the official tech bulletin that recommends it.

 

[whitex]

Porsche silence on this issue is deafening - they've pulled the update - birdies are telling me they know they have a problem…but I'm sure it's just a matter of time while Porsche comes to the realization they either need to "fix" all the PMC+/PMCC North American units (Audi also?) or buy them back

either way it's not going to be cheap…and it's a big mistake for something so essential - they've shipped these with all Taycan's and Prosche Hybrid's - lots of units.

I'm still waiting to find out what Porsche is going to tell me to do with my existing units

and what are they doing with new car deliveries - delivering units with 50% charging capacity - that's a great 1st weekend experience with your new $150k EV…{sigh}

If they have any smart people left in EVSE engineering who are actually allowed to make decisions, and can learn from their competition (Tesla), they will do one of the two things:

1. Add firmware throttling which will dynamically throttle based on measured and/or estimated temperatures, which will only be active if you select "Optimized Charging". With scheduled charging (which, as I understand it, quits when it sees a dynamin limit on a current), only half the rate will be available.
2. They will implement "Boost Mode" which will temporarily boost charging from 20A to 40A, with appropriate fine print how it's not available all the time, depending on ambient temperature, and up to some maximum time duration, etc. etc - Launch Mode equivalent for PMC+/PMCC.

Either of the two solutions is software only, so much cheaper to deploy (almost free for PMCC updated over the air) than a hardware swap. Both also allow them to claim that PMC+/PMCC are in fact 40A capable chargers, they just forgot to include the asterisk "not in all situations".

 

[whitex]

I agree - but if you current ask Porsche for a recomendation about an alternate "home EVSE" you'll simply hear crickets

Very easily fixed, Electrify America is already their partner.

the documentation claims the battery warranty is void if you use a "non Porsche charger" - which is ridicuous but it's still there...

I guess there goes our warranty
This does unfortunately speak to Porsche incompetence in this area

perhaps they should recommend this…

Hmm... A Tesla charger + Tesla Tap adapter? Why not the native J1772 Tesla charger?

 

[daveo4EV]

Very easily fixes, Electrify America is already their partner.


I guess there goes our warranty
This does unfortunately speak to Porsche incompetence in this area



Hmm... A Tesla charger + Tesla Tap adapter? Why not the native J1772 Tesla charger?

it is a native J-1772 charger - the TeslaTap is for my "other" Tesla chargers - the blue one in the pic _IS_ a J-1772 EVSE.

 

[whitex]

it is a native J-1772 charger - the TeslaTap is for my "other" Tesla chargers - the blue one in the pic _IS_ a J-1772 EVSE.

I absolutely believe you, however your recommendation post using this picture with a TeslaTap hanging on top of the charger is as clear as recent Porsche communications. Are they rubbing off on you?

 

[kort]

Very easily fixed, Electrify America is already their partner.


I guess there goes our warranty
This does unfortunately speak to Porsche incompetence in this area



Hmm... A Tesla charger + Tesla Tap adapter? Why not the native J1772 Tesla charger?

this is my current setup, a little slower @ 32 amps but it is a good low cost solution

 

[Scotty]

I absolutely believe you, however your recommendation post using this picture with a TeslaTap hanging on top of the charger is as clear as recent Porsche communications. Are they rubbing off on you?

Received this today from PCNA. Using a 3rd party EV charger voids the warranty:

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars North America regarding your 2020 Taycan warranty. I hope to provide some resources to assist you today. The warranty would be compromised due to using a third party charger. 2020 Taycan Warranty Page 5, second column and under and This Warranty Does Not Cover. Please click here to see the whole warranty Any damage to your vehicle’s hardware or software, or any loss or harm to any personal information/data uploaded to your vehicle resulting from unauthorized access to vehicle data or software from any source, including non-Porsche parts or accessories. If you have any further questions, please email us or call 1-800-PORSCHE. We are available Monday through Friday, 8AM to 10PM and Saturday, 8AM to 8PM ET. We appreciate the time you have taken to reach out and giving us an opportunity to respond to your concern. Thank you for being part of the Porsche family as we wish you many safe and happy miles behind the wheel of your 2020 Porsche Taycan! Kind regards, Melody P.

 

[TDinDC]

Received this today from PCNA. Using a 3rd party EV charger voids the warranty:

​

Thank you for contacting Porsche Cars North America regarding your 2020 Taycan warranty. I hope to provide some resources to assist you today. The warranty would be compromised due to using a third party charger. 2020 Taycan Warranty Page 5, second column and under and This Warranty Does Not Cover. Please click here to see the whole warranty ​ Any damage to your vehicle’s hardware or software, or any loss or harm to any personal information/data uploaded to your vehicle resulting from unauthorized access to vehicle data or software from any source, including non-Porsche parts or accessories. If you have any further questions, please email us or call 1-800-PORSCHE. We are available Monday through Friday, 8AM to 10PM and Saturday, 8AM to 8PM ET. We appreciate the time you have taken to reach out and giving us an opportunity to respond to your concern. Thank you for being part of the Porsche family as we wish you many safe and happy miles behind the wheel of your 2020 Porsche Taycan! Kind regards, Melody P.

If I can weigh in here, I think everyone may be reading too much into this. All this says is that if you use a non-Porsche product, and that non-Porsche product is the cause of damage to your Porsche, Porsche will not pay for that damage.

This does NOT say that if you use a non-Porsche product, then your warranty on your Porsche is void for damage that was not caused by your use of a non-Porsche product.

Every company on the planet takes exactly the same position.

Bottom line: Use whatever charger you want. If you use a non-Porsche charger and that charger damages your Porsche, go after the company to blame (i.e., the maker of the charger) for reimbursement, not Porsche.

I hope this is helpful.

 

[TXAG]

If I can weigh in here, I think everyone may be reading too much into this. All this says is that if you use a non-Porsche product, and that non-Porsche product is the cause of damage to your Porsche, Porsche will not pay for that damage.

This does NOT say that if you use a non-Porsche product, then your warranty on your Porsche is void for damage that was not caused by your use of a non-Porsche product.

Every company on the planet takes exactly the same position.

Bottom line: Use whatever charger you want. If you use a non-Porsche charger and that charger damages your Porsche, go after the company to blame (i.e., the maker of the charger) for reimbursement, not Porsche.

I hope this is helpful.

Agreed. There's also the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975 in the USA.

 

[whitex]

If I can weigh in here, I think everyone may be reading too much into this. All this says is that if you use a non-Porsche product, and that non-Porsche product is the cause of damage to your Porsche, Porsche will not pay for that damage.

This does NOT say that if you use a non-Porsche product, then your warranty on your Porsche is void for damage that was not caused by your use of a non-Porsche product.

Every company on the planet takes exactly the same position.

Bottom line: Use whatever charger you want. If you use a non-Porsche charger and that charger damages your Porsche, go after the company to blame (i.e., the maker of the charger) for reimbursement, not Porsche.

I hope this is helpful.

You have a very good point. The big question however is where is the burden of proof if there is damage. Does the manufacturer have to prove your non-standard charger caused the damage, or do you have to prove that it did not cause damage. In the US there is some extra protection provided by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, but that is not worldwide. If your battery dies, you go for service, and they tell you that logs show you charged from a non-Porsche EVSE, so you you have to pay for a new battery out of pocket, where do you go from there?

The other question would be why explicitly state this in the manual? Do they state that plugging in bad USB devices can void the warranty of that device damages the car's electronics? Do ICE Porsche manuals state using unapproved gas stations will void your warranty if that gas station causes damage to your engine due to bad gasoline for example?

 

[TDinDC]

You have a very good point. The big question however is where is the burden of proof if there is damage. Does the manufacturer have to prove your non-standard charger caused the damage, or do you have to prove that it did not cause damage. In the US there is some extra protection provided by the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act, but that is not worldwide. If your battery dies, you go for service, and they tell you that logs show you charged from a non-Porsche EVSE, so you you have to pay for a new battery out of pocket, where do you go from there?

The other question would be why explicitly state this in the manual? Do they state that plugging in bad USB devices can void the warranty of that device damages the car's electronics? Do ICE Porsche manuals state using unapproved gas stations will void your warranty if that gas station causes damage to your engine due to bad gasoline for example?

All true, but I do think their position is unrelated to any errors regarding their own charging devices. In fact, if they were really worried about their devices, they would encourage people to use other devices (the car, after all, needs to be charged somehow). I strongly suspect that it is in the manual and brought up now merely because a major point of potential failure for all types of electrical devices is the charger and charging related aspects of the device.

They need to find a fix. They haven't decided what to do yet. In the meantime, they are simply reminding everyone about something that was already true.

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