[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

whitex

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Do you guys think it may have to do with this?

Not at all. What you linked is a FUD story most likely spun from the European onboard charger issue (which was an actual problem, but nowhere near a “scandal” some people have overblown it into). This is about North American PMCC (EVSE).
 
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daveo4EV

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Do you guys think it may have to do with this?

no - I may be tiresome but at least I try and stick to the facts that everyone can verify for themselves and then agree or disagree with me

that assertion is unmitigated tripe and innuendo.
 

TaterTex

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so team - your $1120 North American 40 amp PMCC/Outdoor-grill/Toaster is now being updated via OTA update to a restricted 20 amps with _NO_ override possible to restore full 40 amp capacity that has to be reset after each power cycle on/off before you charge your vehicle.

Cayenne forum owners are claiming OTA update for PMCC now forces their max charge rate to 20 amps - with no settings override possible…[UPDATE - they are wrong - it now defaults to 20 amps and can be overridden, but the override has be performed after each power cycle of the PMCC]

https://rennlist.com/forums/cayenne-9y0-2019/1315124-cayenne-e-hybrid-charger.html#post18376686

can anyone confirm/deny their PMCC is now restricted to 20 amps maximum charge rate?

now confirmed - see post #26

OMG - if they are in fact doing this - wow - simply wow - how disappointing - time to break out the affordable higher quality alternatives - also I'd request your money back if you paid $1120 as any option for your PMCC.

_IF_ true - I have not verified this with my personal PMCC's…

wow simply wow - and disappointing is an understatement.
I just bought another Wallbox Pulsar Plus 40a to replace my PMCC at our main house. I’ve had one at our lakehouse for a year and a half and it has been great. Reliable and fast with lots of features.

Since I use the lakehouse charger only 2 or 3 times a month I could have just swapped the Wallbox and the PMCC so that I used the PMCC at the lakehouse. I could have lived with the inconvenience of adjusting the PMCC amps up on the PMCC a couple times a month, but I need it to be fast and safe at the lake also. So, the PMCC is worthless to me now.

This is on Porsche and I hope a class action lawsuit makes sense to somebody out there.
 
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daveo4EV

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If your PMCC is not updated, you can check the release notes at https://contact.porsche.com/usa/accessoriesandservices/porscheservice/software-update/ by entering your serial number.
thank you @AndiL

here are the 3014 release notes from the porsche site - no mention of the 20 amp default - hmmmmm - the release notes seem pretty benign if that was all this update did there would be no thread discussion…

they seem to be missing the following bullet point
  • North American PMCC units will now default to 20 amp charging rate (4.8 kW) for improved safety and thermal behavior - this default value can be temporarily adjusted using the PMCC's charging current settings via the "gear" menu
https://contact.porsche.com/usa/acc...re-update/downloads-mobile-charger-connect-1/

Version 3014
Version
3014
Status
New
Download date
-
File size
116.83 MB
Software update 3014 is intended to optimize and expand the software of your Porsche Mobile Charger Connect. The following modifications are made:
  • Improvements to the display within the user interface
  • Optimization of PLC communication between Porsche Mobile Charger Connect and Porsche Home Energy Manager
  • Optimization and robustness measures to the installed software
  • Optimization of the 2.4 GHz WiFi frequency
Software version 3014 is compatible with all previous versions and can be installed directly. The update does not affect the data protection and certification of your product or content from third-party providers.
 
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Tooney

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they seem to be missing the following bullet point
  • North American PMCC units will now default to 20 amp charging rate (4.8 kW) for improved safety and thermal behavior - this default value can be temporarily overridding using the PMCC's charging current settings via the "gear" menu
The change in default to 20 amp charging rate is likely included without mention in the
  • Optimization and robustness measures to the installed software
bullet point. It Improves "robustness". ;)
 
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daveo4EV

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The change in default to 20 amp charging rate is likely included without mention in the
  • Optimization and robustness measures to the installed software
bullet point. It Improves "robustness". ;)
I was thinking the same thing :rock:
 
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gnop1950

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the PMC+ is not updated at this time - this discussion only related to the PMCC unit to my knowledge - I welcome any corrections.
When I took my vehicle in for the ANA6 update they asked me to bring my charger, PMC+, in for an update. Now I haven't ever even plugged in the PMC+ since I have a PWCC installed in my garage (Zero issues with the PWCC btw). My service rep did say that I will get new manuals for the PMC+ once they are in stock.

The mobile chargers do seem a bit pricey. My PMC+ lives in one of the cabinets in my garage and only gets put into the car for longer trips. I suppose I should actually plug it in at some point and test it ;)
 

bah1590

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When I took my vehicle in for the ANA6 update they asked me to bring my charger, PMC+, in for an update. Now I haven't ever even plugged in the PMC+ since I have a PWCC installed in my garage (Zero issues with the PWCC btw). My service rep did say that I will get new manuals for the PMC+ once they are in stock.

The mobile chargers do seem a bit pricey. My PMC+ lives in one of the cabinets in my garage and only gets put into the car for longer trips. I suppose I should actually plug it in at some point and test it ;)
My SA said the same thing to me when I got the ANA6 update. So why are some saying it was an OTA and we have to bring ours in?
 
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daveo4EV

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My SA said the same thing to me when I got the ANA6 update. So why are some saying it was an OTA and we have to bring ours in?
bringing it in is to inspect the unit's looking for signs of electrical/thremal stress - there are known issues with cables melting and signs of stress in the J-1772 cable vehicle charging plug - and written instructions from porsche for what to look for to see if the PMCC unit has been having stress while charging

they also have to deliver the new warning "sticker" and user manual addendum's

the recall proceedure also instructs the techs to manually reduce the charging amps to 20 amps using the PMCC settings (and in the case of the PMC+ turn on the 50% button) - after that they know if the unit is set back to 40 amp (or the 50% button is turned off) it was done by the customer - because Porsche inspected the unit and put it into it's recommended configuration as of such and such a date…

it is unclear to me if the tech's have a way to "update" the software on the PMCC outside of the OTA update mechanism…

but now that the OTA mechanism is available - it would not be surprising to me if the recall procedures include the tech's now forcing the software update as part of their working/handling/inspecting the units

it's also (and primarily) a legal tactic - in that Porsche can "sort" customers who have or have not had the updated "applied" - and reduce potential future liability due do this product's excellent behavior…

people who participate in the recall and then subsequently "adjust" their PMC+/PMCC back to the higher settings take on a greater responsibility for any future outcomes because Porsche can say - well honor - the customer adjusted the unit in question to it's higher settings because on Sept 28th, 2022 we hafe records showing we applied the 20 amp default settings - and after that point the only way the unit could've failed or been found with a 40 amp settign is if the customer manually overrode our default safety recommendations...and they ignored the user manual and we can demonstrate to the court that there is no way the unit could've accidently been adjusted to the higher less safe setting.

this ENTIRE process is about legal liability mitigation - not product quality improvements or customer experience improvements - they have decided to double the charging time of every EV/Hybrid to lower their liability - rather than design/deliver/replace an EVSE that can handle the published charging rates.
 
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whitex

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to achieve Porsche specified charge duration of 9.5 hour (see below) - you will need to temporarily adjust your PMCC each time you use it - or purchase an alternate 9.6 kW EVSE from a vendor other than Porsche.

Screen Shot 2022-09-25 at 4.10.24 PM.png
Still not as bad as Tesla which advertised 691hp for P85D's, only to later admit that it was battery limited to 463hp from the factory. In other words, in order to achieve the advertised spec you would have had to replace the $40K battery in the car with one you'd have to design yourself because Tesla did not at that time sell a powerful enough battery.
 

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a 40 amp settign is if the customer manually overrode our default safety recommendations...
That argument would last about 1 minute in court, if it isn't thrown out of court before then.

if a product is operating within defined spec (as in this case, charging at 40a) you can't escape liability by saying you recommended something else.

As far as "manually overriding" the recommendation, they describe that (a) you can do that and (b) here is how, and the change that they allow to that setting is within their specs. This is not some secret back door hack that enables the charger to operate at 60a or something else out of spec.
 
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whitex

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That argument would last about 1 minute in court, if it isn't thrown out of court before then.

if a product is operating within defined spec (as in this case, charging at 40a) you can't escape liability by saying you recommended something else.

As far as "manually overriding" the recommendation, they describe that (a) you can do that and (b) here is how, and the change that they allow to that setting is within their specs. This is not some secret back door hack that enables the charger to operate at 60a or something else out of spec.
Well, they could make an argument that changing the setting outside of default, the customer acknowledges they know what they are doing, especially if they hide it under customer_service. For example, if you change the charger to 40A and you are plugged into a Canadian legal NEMA 14-50 with only a 40A cabling+breaker, if a fire results, they could claim you are responsible. This actually happened with Tesla mobile chargers, there was a fire, hence today's version is only 32A (which also allowed them to cost optimize, but at first they just sold 40A chargers limited to 32A, and unlimited 40A as "hardwired"). 32A will trip a 30A breaker, and is safe to use on 40A and 50A breakers (all legal to be behind a NEMA-14-50), so potential safety issues mitigated.

Another thought; as part of the PMCC update which defaults to 20A, they might also have lowered the temperature thresholds when the charger shuts itself down. So, anyone charging at 40A when it is hot outside might wake up with their cars not charged. Safety issues and liability mitigated, but technically still a 40A EVSE but only usable as such in the colder weather. You cannot sue for that since no EVSE out there will keep on charging no matter how hot it gets, and Porsche never advertised operating ambient temperature for 40A charger, did they? So all you can do it accuse their product of having a poor operating temperature spec, but since it was never advertised, no actual case in court.

Last but not least, I am surprised they didn't implement a much better solution, simply throttle the charge rate dynamically as EVSE and/or the cable temps rise, rather than just trip and kill the charging session. Then they could set the thresholds lower if they want to, but most customers would not notice, especially when charging at night when it's cooler. They might not have a cable temperature sensor, but they could implement a virtual sensor, perhaps based on temperature senors they have (in EVSE and in the car), their profile (shape of the curve), maybe even pull current weather for the car's location as a factor. That would have been my engineering mitigation suggestion at least, given the poor design customers are stuck with. For new EVSE I would of course suggest a better design replacement.
 
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Unknowingly until seeing this thread yesterday I updated the charger on the weekend.. 🤦🏻‍♂️ I did however just pick up a F150 Lightning and the 80amp pro charger is en-route but I am not able to find any info on charging the Taycan with it. I’m assuming it’s possible.. I have a call in with dealership to confirm but wanted to see if anyone else had this?
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