[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

[Vercingetorix]

wanna guess when I was charging my EV? and what AMP setting the PMCC was set to?

here is the data -and PG&E will provide a CVS file with the raw numbers so you can really dig into the data - there are enough digital bread crumbs that if it got testy regarding liablity one could analyse the direcxt and indirect data and come to some pretty sound and convincing deductive conclusions - that with the physical evidence (even cheap NEMA 14-50 plug sockets don't melt that easily) - once can make the case what caused the event…

How does any of this show the difference between an EVSE set at 40 amps or an EVSE set to 20 amps+ 20 amp dryer running at the same time?

 

[Terra]

It should charge just fine, unless Ford somehow messed up the design like Porsche, or they intentionally locked out other cars (IIRC Tesla did that early on with chargers outside of North America, and even today I'm told this is an option on the Wall Charger Gen3 settings).

Question: Is the charger you picked up 2-way, i.e. allows for your F150 to power you home in case of power failure? I heard this was supposed to be a feature of the Lightening.

Ya apparently will be good to go and yes the charger will allow 2-way but still need to install a module between it and the main panel apparently.

 

[daveo4EV]

How does any of this show the difference between an EVSE set at 40 amps or an EVSE set to 20 amps+ 20 amp dryer running at the same time?

dryer is unlikely to be running between midnight and 4 am - and if there was an issue you'll have time of the "event" and any physical evidence - I'm pretty confident you could make the case as to what the AMP setting was and with time and physical evidence and usage patterns of the other appliances - you could come with a very plausible series of events and settings.

 

[Vercingetorix]

dryer is unlikely to be running between midnight and 4 am - and if there was an issue you'll have time of the "event" and any physical evidence - I'm pretty confident you could make the case as to what the AMP setting was and with time and physical evidence and usage patterns of the other appliances - you could come with a very plausible series of events and settings.

Forget dryer. How about air conditioning? Or hot tub? Anyone of which can switch on at any time. It’s a tough prove in my book.

 

[smohr33]

Porsche’s silence on this issue thus far is expected, but not acceptable IMO.

@daveo4EV, I know you reached out to your service department. I hate to “nominate” you, but you seem to be the resident EVSE expert here, and since you already have a compelling letter typed out, perhaps you would consider emailing it to PCNA CEO Kjell Gruner? His email is [email protected].

If not I’m happy to contact him about the issue.

 

[daveo4EV]

I sent the letter I posted to my service manager - he responded and said he's get back to me when any word from PCNA

I encourage anyone to contact Porsche however they see fit regarding this issue (respectful and polite please) - more people will be better than a nominee - more people = more data = more response in my opinion.

requesting/returning your PMCC is a probably a pretty definative piece of feedback to Porsche that you're not happy - I'm not suggesting you'll be successful - but I'm suggesting this is meaningful feedback to Porsche regarding this issue.

Also it may prove that I'm over-reacting (as has been suggested) if there is not enough for a meaningful outcry - I do not have data to assess if this will bother a significant portion of the Taycan community.

 

[daveo4EV]

at this point honestly I'm not that surprised that it's come to this - the North American product has issues, and the emergence of these issues were apparently as far back as August of 2020 - public postings on this forum date back that far and were communicated to Porsche via the service/dealer network and a response was generated - so Porsche has know about this for at least 2 years.

there is really nothing Porsche can do…the current product is what it is and may be irredeemable short of new-design+replacement for the North American market - and they have probably taken the best steps they can given the circumstances…

I am however disappointed about the lack of any road map forward - or evan an acknowledgement that this is not an acceptable new normal - I see 3 possible "solutions" for Porsche - and honestly I do not care which solution they choose, but lack of a response is not really awesome

1. we are PCNA - we will be resolving the the PMCC/PMC+ issues with future "modifications/fixes" stay tuned - we plan to announce these plans in Calendar Q1/2023
2. we are PCNA - there will be a new 9.6 kW/40 amp EVSE available from Porsche Q2/Q3/2023 - stay tuned
3. we are PCNA - we are working to identify a partner for our North American EVSE hardware solutions - stay tuned - we plan to have an annoucement as soon as possible.

leaving us with a default 4.8 kW EVSE and unclear reasons as to what issues they are addressing with this change is not an ideal response in my opinion.

I'm less concerned there is a problem - their OTA update proves they know there is a problem - what seems to be lacking is any sort of thoughts or communcation on the path forward from here.

 

[daveo4EV]

tongue and cheek - this in my opinion would've been a far better roll out

Sept. 2022

from desk of EVSE people at Porsche…

dudes and dudettes - well gee we have concluded the PMCC/PMC+ has some issues - we'd rather not list those issues at this time (lawyers go figure) - but yeah - we nerf'd your EVSE via OTA - sorry suprise!!! - we know this is not good but trust us if you knew what we knew you would've nerf'd it also - man on man you would've nerf'd it like yesterday…but we got your back - this whole default 4.8 kW charge rate thing, yeah it's not the worst thing in the world, but we get it, not ideal as a long term solution for all our owners…and not what you signed up for or had your electrician install in your garage…

but trust us - we got plans - big fancy plans, plans that get us both out of this situation - but we need some more time to finalize these plans so we're sure we have all the bases covered

so in the mean time - proably best not to override the default, but if it's worked for you in the past - use your own best judgement - but we will be annouceing something really soon that will make this good for both of us - so cut us some slack, chill, charge a bit slower for now - and we'll get back to you when we can with some awesome updates about how to restore 9.6 kW charging in for your Taycan in a safe and sane manner…

we are working the problem - give us some time to get this all right for you…peace out - EVSE engineers working overtime on this issue so we can get this behind us All and the EV Macan to market - cause if you think this sucks for Taycan owners, it would've been a disaster for our largest volume product…so yeah - we had to do this.

sincerely really really smart EVSE engineers from Porsche working for you - really really hard.

 

[WasserGKuehlt]

This doesn't make sense from a technical perspective either. Porsche EVSE may be charging non-Porsche vehicles (it is a standard charger, not a Porsche specific standard, not can the EVSE even reject a non-latest-version-Porsche car), it may be charging Porsche vehicles with any released version of the software. Testing only with latest Porsche firmware doesn't make a lot of sense.

That said, if what you say is true, did the EVSE OTA come with a matching car OTA update? If not, that means they didn't wait to do a combined release process, they did release EVSE only update.

That's not what the original poster said; they said the release process is the same for either car or equipment, and that makes sense. It's not just about the test matrix/qualification, it's everything else - escrow, signing, publishing etc. Nobody said the car got an update, or that the equipment is _not_ meant to work with other cars.

 

[whitex]

Not sure what point you are trying to make. Similarly, if you wire your PMCC to a 10a circuit breaker that your electrician signs off on and you set the charger to 16a and your home catches fire, that is also your fault.

My point is that products do exist where user can, technically, modify its settings in a way which may cause the product to be dangerous. If you want a simpler example, if you set your cruise control to 100km/h in a school zone, you are still responsible for the car speeding, even though the manufacturer let you set the setting.

PS> In the specific example you gave above the circuit breaker will trip, preventing a fire.

 

[whitex]

That's not what the original poster said; they said the release process is the same for either car or equipment, and that makes sense. It's not just about the test matrix/qualification, it's everything else - escrow, signing, publishing etc. Nobody said the car got an update, or that the equipment is _not_ meant to work with other cars.

Here is what the original poster said, note the highlighted section saying not that it is a joined process where EVSE and car firmwares are tested and released together, not just having same steps but with different scope.

 

[AndiL]

Let's see if we can get more clarity on this sitation:

1. In the post https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-amperage-for-normal-usage-of-the-pmcc.12384/ it was discussed that the default amperage will be lowered with a new campaign
2. A campaign usually means that it is done in the shop/dealership
3. Only owners in the North America where asked to bring in their PMCC (not sure about the PMC+?)

Question: Was anyone told WHAT they actually did?

Assumption: The powerboard software was upgraded, this can not be done OTA and the OTA update was only made available on Friday September 23rd and the work in the shop was already done before that. Also no other country (e.g. in Europe) had such a campaign and anything related to reducing the default amperage setting. So I guess that the default was set in that campaign with the software update of the powerboard. If that is so, why didn't anyone at the dealership told you so? And also told you on how to set it back?

Assumption 2: If the default setting was changed with the powerboard, then any change via the Touch Display or web interface should be persisted. As that is done with a different part of the software on the device and persisting is not working due to a software bug, then it should exist on any device anywhere having the software OTA update done. I just check with my European version and the change was persisted and properly set after disconnect/reconnect. But maybe there is also a difference in the software on that part.

Therefor I think the lowering the amperage default to 20A was NOT part of the 3014 software update but was lowered BEFORE this update already. Did anyone charge their vehicle between the campaign in the shop and the OTA software update from last Friday?

If that is the case, I wonder if the shops should have known better and tell you how to change the default back if needed.

 

[Kingske]

Let's see if we can get more clarity on this sitation:

1. In the post https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...-amperage-for-normal-usage-of-the-pmcc.12384/ it was discussed that the default amperage will be lowered with a new campaign
2. A campaign usually means that it is done in the shop/dealership
3. Only owners in the North America where asked to bring in their PMCC (not sure about the PMC+?)

Question: Was anyone told WHAT they actually did?

Assumption: The powerboard software was upgraded, this can not be done OTA and the OTA update was only made available on Friday September 23rd and the work in the shop was already done before that. Also no other country (e.g. in Europe) had such a campaign and anything related to reducing the default amperage setting. So I guess that the default was set in that campaign with the software update of the powerboard. If that is so, why didn't anyone at the dealership told you so? And also told you on how to set it back?

Assumption 2: If the default setting was changed with the powerboard, then any change via the Touch Display or web interface should be persisted. As that is done with a different part of the software on the device and persisting is not working due to a software bug, then it should exist on any device anywhere having the software OTA update done. I just check with my European version and the change was persisted and properly set after disconnect/reconnect. But maybe there is also a difference in the software on that part.

Therefor I think the lowering the amperage default to 20A was NOT part of the 3014 software update but was lowered BEFORE this update already. Did anyone charge their vehicle between the campaign in the shop and the OTA software update from last Friday?

If that is the case, I wonder if the shops should have known better and tell you how to change the default back if needed.

Yes, I did have my (US) PMCC modified to 20A default at the dealer about two weeks ago and the 3014 OTA update only hit me a couple of days ago. It does not seem like 3014 itself was triggering the lowered default but it did prevent me from resetting that default by logging into the PMCC as 'customer service'.

 

[AndiL]

@Kingske By "it did prevent me from resetting that default", do you mean you couldn't change the default or that it did not save it permanently so you wouldn't have to do it after a restart again? Did you see this effect before that OTA update as well?

 

[Windpower]

3. Only owners in the North America where asked to bring in their PMCC (not sure about the PMC+?)

I was asked to bring in my PMC+, and the service department put a sticker on it. I don't normally use the PMC+ (I keep it in the frunk in case I need it while traveling) so I don't know if they 'programmed' it to lower the default amperage.

When I first got the Taycan, I tried charging both my Tesla Y and the Taycan. The PMC+ worked fine with the Taycan but, with the Tesla, it would trigger a fault unless I lowered the current to 50%. I had previously been using a Juicebox 40 so I switched back to the Juicebox so I could charge both cars at full rate and relegated the PMC+ to storage in the frunk.

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