[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

[daveo4EV]

these are the key posts from 2 years ago…it's been a problem brewing and Porsche knew about it.

• history of the cable - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-11#post-27819
• porsche's response 2 years ago to reduce amps - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-12#post-30183
• engeineering tables showing to expect a 90F or more heat rise using 10 gauge wire for 40 amps - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-6#post-26616
• porsche's official response that if it gets hot lower the amps - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-8#post-27225

they've know for at least two years the unit has issues.

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[AZ Taycan for John]

I agree, Porsche knows there is a problem and this was their fix. They don't want the expense and embarrassment of a recall. There are many much more serious examples of this in automotive history. Remember the Ford Pinto gas tanks, 1970's Fords slipping from park into reverse, the Toyotas with sudden acceleration and more recently the Takata air bag recalls. In comparison this seems trivial, but for a quality car company like Porsche they should do the right thing for the customers. They have the money. Their IPO raised almost 20 Billion Euros!

 

[Kingske]

Proposed settlement: Turn in EVSE, get free Electrify America charging for life, or until car is sold.

Even better proposal: Porsche buys back the PMCC EVSE for 50% of its own catalogue list price (reflecting depreciation after average use) so that duped Taycan users can choose whether to spend this compensation on another brand of EVSE, on EA charging, or on anything else...

 

[Tooney]

I'm curious. Could the "cause" of what is pictured here be the receptacle or the way the receptacle was wired/connected to its supply rather than being caused by a poorly performing EVSE?
Maybe after 3 or more years of use (per the post above), the receptacle and/or its supply connection overheated.

I'm not questioning known issues with Porsche EVSEs. But the receptacle and its wiring may be part or all of the problem with these installations.

 

[smohr33]

I'm curious. Could the "cause" of what is pictured here be the receptacle or the way the receptacle was wired/connected to its supply rather than being caused by a poorly performing EVSE?
Maybe after 3 or more years of use (per the post above), the receptacle and/or its supply connection overheated.

I'm not questioning known issues with Porsche EVSEs. But the receptacle and its wiring may be part or all of the problem with these installations.

We all know PMCC/PMC+ "shut down" and give a charging error when they overheat, we've probably all had it happen by now. While PMCC has been proven not suffiecent for the current it's are rated for, it does seem to safely shut down once a certain temperature is reached. Of course this could be an outlier, anything can happen, but I agree this is likely an installation issue.

 

[daveo4EV]

I'm curious. Could the "cause" of what is pictured here be the receptacle or the way the receptacle was wired/connected to its supply rather than being caused by a poorly performing EVSE?
Maybe after 3 or more years of use (per the post above), the receptacle and/or its supply connection overheated.

I'm not questioning known issues with Porsche EVSEs. But the receptacle and its wiring may be part or all of the problem with these installations.

_IF_ the PMCC was the cause I believe the thermal characteristics of the PMCC supply cable "thermally" stress the NEMA socket which may expose weaknesses in existing installs that function fine with other EVSE's

if the PMCC is not safe at full AMPs (which Porsche has definativly declared with this OTA update) then they should refund them, recall them, and provide restitution - but this afffects both EV's and Hybrid's and they have 10's of thousands of these in circulation…it would not be cheap (NOTE; this unit is shared across the VW/Audi/Porsche product lines)…so it's not just Porsche.

 

[daveo4EV]

We all know PMCC/PMC+ "shut down" and give a charging error when they overheat, we've probably all had it happen by now. While PMCC has been proven not suffiecent for the current it's are rated for, it does seem to safely shut down once a certain temperature is reached. Of course this could be an outlier, anything can happen, but I agree this is likely an installation issue.

the unit itself overheating is separate from it's supply cable thermals - it's quite possible for the supply cable to have thermal issues and the PMCC itself not experience any thermal distress - I do not know if there are thermal sensors in the supply cable portion of the PMC+/PMCC…

other EVSE brands have thermal fuses in the supply cable/plug-head to detect and trip when plug-socket thermal issues are detected to avoid problems like this.

 

[_Brian_]

I'm curious. Could the "cause" of what is pictured here be the receptacle or the way the receptacle was wired/connected to its supply rather than being caused by a poorly performing EVSE?
Maybe after 3 or more years of use (per the post above), the receptacle and/or its supply connection overheated.

I'm not questioning known issues with Porsche EVSEs. But the receptacle and its wiring may be part or all of the problem with these installations.

I've seen something like this on an old 110 v receptacle, though not nearly as severe. Conclusion was a loose fit between the make prongs and female clips in the receptacle caused a small amount of arcing/heat and damage over time. I am careful not to remove my EVSe 14-50 frequently because of this experience (Switched plugs once in 9 months) to ensure the plug is seated tight.

 

[Tooney]

if the PMCC is not safe at full AMPs (which Porsche has definativly declared with this OTA update) then they should refund them, recall them, and provide restitution - but this afffects both EV's and Hybrid's and they have 10's of thousands of these in circulation…it would not be cheap (NOTE; this unit is shared across the VW/Audi/Porsche product lines)…so it's not just Porsche.

I doubt Porsche has "declared" the PMCC is "not safe at full Amps". But even if that is true, I'd guess from a legal liability perspective that is not much different than selling a Taycan that can go 160 mph and affixing a sticker on the instrument panel warning the driver not to drive more than 130 mph on the all-season tires the vehicle is supplied with.

Fortunately, a year ago, after reading numerous old posts here about PMCC overheating, I did not buy one. I agree that people who did buy it should get restitution.

 

[daveo4EV]

I've seen something like this on an old 110 v receptacle, though not nearly as severe. Conclusion was a loose fit between the make prongs and female clips in the receptacle caused a small amount of arcing/heat and damage over time. I am careful not to remove my EVSe 14-50 frequently because of this experience (Switched plugs once in 9 months) to ensure the plug is seated tight.

and the plug-head itself getting to surface temps in excess of 144F or more isn't going to help the situation if the enclosing plastic gets warm/soft/malleable/flexible allowing for play in the integrity of the plug<->socket connection, maybe inducing arc'ing or increasing the probably of arc'ing due to the thermals invovled.

 

[Bill33525]

" NOTE; this unit is shared across the VW/Audi/Porsche product lines)…so it's not just Porsche. "

The unit supplied with my '21 e-tron has much heavier gauge wire and runs considerably cooler than the Porsche unit supplied with my '22 Taycan.

 

[daveo4EV]

" NOTE; this unit is shared across the VW/Audi/Porsche product lines)…so it's not just Porsche. "

The unit supplied with my '21 e-tron has much heavier gauge wire and runs considerably cooler than the Porsche unit supplied with my '22 Taycan.

REALLY- this is NEWS - do you have a photo of "said" unit - and which cable is "updated" - part #? is this the power supply to PMCC/PMC+ segment, or the cable segment from the PMCC/PMC+ to the vehicle.

photos of both ends of the cable (w/part number) and the cable itself would be appreciated

if you inspect the cable the wire-gauge should be embossed on the cable itself - it would be news if the wire-gauge indicated on the cable itself was not 10 AWG…

my 2021 Cayenne's PMCC still has the same physical cable as my 2020 Taycan PMCC - and 10 AWG wire…

please share details if you can - this would be news and progress in my opinion.

if there is a new power supply cable and part number - maybe we can get @snstevens to ask his CEO buddy to get us all upgrades to the newer/cooler (thermally) power supply cable.

more details please if you can.

a photo like the one in this post would be ideal if possible…

side by side photos of the two cables also might be interesting if the Audi part # is "thicker" and it would show up in the photo.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-13#post-191890

 

[Klepper]

I'm curious. Could the "cause" of what is pictured here be the receptacle or the way the receptacle was wired/connected to its supply rather than being caused by a poorly performing EVSE?
Maybe after 3 or more years of use (per the post above), the receptacle and/or its supply connection overheated.

I'm not questioning known issues with Porsche EVSEs. But the receptacle and its wiring may be part or all of the problem with these installations.

You can tell by the size/shape of the burnt 14-50 receptacle that it is not the industrial version that should be used for EV's. It's the regular Commercial type. See pic below.

 

[Bill33525]

REALLY- this is NEWS - do you have a photo of "said" unit - and which cable is "updated" - part #? is this the power supply to PMCC/PMC+ segment, or the cable segment from the PMCC/PMC+ to the vehicle.

photos of both ends of the cable (w/part number) and the cable itself would be appreciated

if you inspect the cable the wire-gauge should be embossed on the cable itself - it would be news if the wire-gauge indicated on the cable itself was not 10 AWG…

my 2021 Cayenne's PMCC still has the same physical cable as my 2020 Taycan PMCC - and 10 AWG wire…

please share details if you can - this would be news and progress in my opinion.

if there is a new power supply cable and part number - maybe we can get @snstevens to ask his CEO buddy to get us all upgrades to the newer/cooler (thermally) power supply cable.

more details please if you can.

a photo like the one in this post would be ideal if possible…

side by side photos of the two cables also might be interesting if the Audi part # is "thicker" and it would show up in the photo.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-13#post-191890

The pigtails are the same between ‘21 etron and ‘22 Taycan

 

[Bill33525]

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