[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

[daveo4EV]

I can understand why any of these options would be acceptable, but, from a practical standpoint, the third one is extraordinarily complicated. I could see a credit for EA equaling the full cost of the PMCC if they were unwilling to provide a cash refund. Perhaps only offering the first two is a better place to start, with the third as I proposed as a fallback.

Porsche already offers 3 years included EA charging with each purchase - and this is a online "purchase" that costs $0 for each year you extend the "charging" contract - Porsche only need continue to $0 cost this existing online contract for an additional 3 years - honestly this int he easiest thing we're asking them to do...

fixing the PMCC/PMC+ is much harder than extending an existing program for additional time…

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[TDinDC]

Porsche already offers 3 years included EA charging with each purchase - and this is a online "purchase" that costs $0 for each year you extend the "charging" contract - Porsche only need continue to $0 cost this existing online contract for an additional 3 years - honestly this int he easiest thing we're asking them to do...

fixing the PMCC/PMC+ is much harder than extending an existing program for additional time…

Right. I was saying that the "lifetime" aka unlimited was the difficulty. It was not the free charging that is difficult in and of itself. For some people, like me, three additional years likely would not even get me to the cost of the PMCC, while others would, over a lifetime, use multiples of the cost of the PMCC, which is why I thought free till you use that up made logical sense in a way that could be made palatable to Porsche as well.

 

[Bill33525]

that would be inline -with expectations - 9.6 @ the power outlet (like your flex charger) should yield the numbers you are seeing in vehicle

I wonder why the Audi charger is "running" cooler - any temp measurements after an hour or so of charging

something like the following comparing the two would be interesting.

you can just share the numbers if you feel like I t- I"m most interested in the "supply" cable temperatures and ambient temp at the time of measure

this is 100% optional but if you're willing I"m sure we'd all appreciate the data…

I will run some tests this afternoon and report back later today. I have the Porsche charger running now for a baseline. The pigtail and plug are not an issue at all so far. The highest temperature is the wire near the J772 plug, about 25 degrees higher than the plug after nearly an hour.

 

[jcroix]

During my upcoming call with Porsche NA I plan to propose a couple of options for correcting the situation. Here is what I had in mind, and I'm open to feedback --

• Repair and Return to Full 9.6KW Capability- Replacement of the cables with 8 gauge cables, replaceable by the owner.
  • Following cable update we could each safely charge at 40A again, but eventually we need a SW update to get rid of the automatic update to 20A feature.
  • The SW if a bit tricky since Porsche can't roll out a new SW update if many in NA are still using the 10 gauge cables. To make this work the replacement of the cables might have to happen at the Dealer, and some sort of setting changed in the PMCC itself to allow a future update to restore full 40A charging capability.
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC.
• EA Lifetime & Partial Refund - Upon return of the PMCC, Porsche NA to offer a partial refund (say $500-$550) and lifetime free EA charging for the current owner of the car.

I think all three of these are acceptable to me, and yet I'd like to get your thoughts.

For the record, I am also assuming that someone from Porsche NA monitors this thread (I know I would if I had a liability issue like this that might necessitate a recall on the horizon), so let's be thoughtful about this.

BTW, there is no assurance I get a callback on Friday, but I'm hopeful.

For those of us silly enough to also buy a case for the PMCC (I’m a member of that club), a refund on the case as well as the PMCC would be nice. Otherwise we have a case with nothing to put into it.

Good luck!

Cheers,
John

 

[daveo4EV]

For those of us silly enough to also buy a case for the PMCC (I’m a member of that club), a refund on the case as well as the PMCC would be nice. Otherwise we have a case with nothing to put into it.

Good luck!

Cheers,
John

agreed - refund of anything included at time of purchase (PMCC + optional Dock)

 

[daveo4EV]

I will run some tests this afternoon and report back later today. I have the Porsche charger running now for a baseline. The pigtail and plug are not an issue at all so far. The highest temperature is the wire near the J772 plug, about 25 degrees higher than the plug after nearly an hour.

25F higher than ambient is no big deal and in line with expected behavior of the best electronics for 9.6 kW of power…so this is good news

my temps are consistent with the photo I posted 2 years ago - the only issue is the power supply cable from Porsche - all other components are nominal thermals for what is going on during charging.

 

[Bill33525]

25F higher than ambient is no big deal and in line with expected behavior of the best electronics for 9.6 kW of power…so this is good news

my temps are consistent with the photo I posted 2 years ago - the only issue is the power supply cable from Porsche - all other components are nominal thermals for what is going on during charging.

Can you check to see if your pictail is the same as y photos? 40amp rating? Do you run that charger totally enclosed?

 

[Kingske]

During my upcoming call with Porsche NA I plan to propose a couple of options for correcting the situation. Here is what I had in mind, and I'm open to feedback --

• Repair and Return to Full 9.6KW Capability- Replacement of the cables with 8 gauge cables, replaceable by the owner.
  • Following cable update we could each safely charge at 40A again, but eventually we need a SW update to get rid of the automatic update to 20A feature.
  • The SW if a bit tricky since Porsche can't roll out a new SW update if many in NA are still using the 10 gauge cables. To make this work the replacement of the cables might have to happen at the Dealer, and some sort of setting changed in the PMCC itself to allow a future update to restore full 40A charging capability.
• Full Refund - Porsche to offer a full refund upon return of the PMCC.
• EA Lifetime & Partial Refund - Upon return of the PMCC, Porsche NA to offer a partial refund (say $500-$550) and lifetime free EA charging for the current owner of the car.

I think all three of these are acceptable to me, and yet I'd like to get your thoughts.

For the record, I am also assuming that someone from Porsche NA monitors this thread (I know I would if I had a liability issue like this that might necessitate a recall on the horizon), so let's be thoughtful about this.

BTW, there is no assurance I get a callback on Friday, but I'm hopeful.

Thank you for your involvement in trying to get this disappointing matter resolved. Both the cable update and refund options seem attractive to me, but I would advise against any compensation which is fully or partially based on extended EA charger use because:
> not every Taycan owner uses Electrify America (I, for one, have used them once over my two years of ownership),
> nobody knows how EA or its competitors/alternatives will evolve (or survive) over the next years, let alone decades, so lifetime use may be an esoteric concept.

 

[daveo4EV]

Can you check to see if your pictail is the same as y photos? 40amp rating? Do you run that charger totally enclosed?

mine are same/very-similar -one PMCC I run in the Porsch enclosed dock - and the other I run "open air" - the one in open air has slightly lower temps than the enclosed one - but still more than expected rise with alternative EVSE's - pics of my supply cables can be found in this thread…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/

 

[daveo4EV]

Thank you for your involvement in trying to get this disappointing matter resolved. Both the cable update and refund options seem attractive to me, but I would advise against any compensation which is fully or partially based on extended EA charger use because:
> not every Taycan owner uses Electrify America (I, for one, have used them once over my two years of ownership),
> nobody know how EA or its competitors/alternatives will evolve over the next years, let alone decades, so lifetime use may be an esoteric concept.

I agree - but Porshce aleady offers this to all Taycan owners - so extending it is an easy and cheap good will gesture - I wouldn't want to leave it off the table by simply not requesting it.

basically it's simply a request to extend the duration of any already existing included charging service/program/offering - should be trivial and easy to accomplish along with repair/replace/refund - the three R's

 

[Kingske]

mine are same/very-similar -one PMCC I run in the Porsch enclosed dock - and the other I run "open air" - the one in open air has slightly lower temps than the enclosed one - but still more than expected rise with alternative EVSE's - pics of my supply cables can be found in this thread…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/

Clearly the pigtail itself which runs hottest (by far).

 

[TDinDC]

I agree - but Porshce aleady offers this to all Taycan owners - so extending it is an easy and cheap good will gesture - I wouldn't want to leave it off the table by simply not requesting it.

basically it's simply a request to extend the duration of any already existing included charging service/program/offering - should be trivial and easy to accomplish along with repair/replace/refund - the three R's

I would only want that as an alternative to refund. I will never use EA enough to recover my costs.

 

[Klepper]

agreed - refund of anything included at time of purchase (PMCC + optional Dock)

The refund option would be difficult for the owners with the PMC+, since this was the included charger, not an optional "extra" with a specific price associated with it.

 

[madeyong]

The refund option would be difficult for the owners with the PMC+, since this was the included charger, not an optional "extra" with a specific price associated with it.

Refunds will also be difficult for people like me that purchased the car pre-owned. I bought a low mileage 2020 TTS in a September of 2021. My car came with the original owner’s PMCC, which was listed on the original window sticker and surely impacted the sale price to me, but I did not buy the PMCC new. To make matters worse I then overpaid on eBay for the big charging dock because that did not come with the car and I wanted it.

 

[Bill33525]

I will run some tests this afternoon and report back later today. I have the Porsche charger running now for a baseline. The pigtail and plug are not an issue at all so far. The highest temperature is the wire near the J772 plug, about 25 degrees higher than the plug after nearly an hour.

Here are my observations running both the Porsche and Audi chargers on the Taycan. The car showed 86 degrees abient temperature, i'm in central Florida.

Porsche charger: Plug 113F, Pigtail at the charger input 113F, Wire @J1772 connector 125F.
Audi e-tron charger: Plug 107, Pigtail @ charger 100F, Wire @J1772 connector 108F.

BTW: Before the '21 e-tron I had the '19 e-tron which had a hot plug, measured 150F on the blades of the plug. There were a lot of posts last summer on the Audi forum about plugs running hot and sometimes melting.

Hope all this helps.

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