[North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update?

snstevens

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For those of us silly enough to also buy a case for the PMCC (I’m a member of that club), a refund on the case as well as the PMCC would be nice. Otherwise we have a case with nothing to put into it.

Good luck!

Cheers,
John
Well, I have the PMCC Dock as well, and actually I like the look of it in my garage. However, you're right - if I were offered a refund to return the PMCC the Dock will be sitting there empty, so it would make sense to ask for a refund of that as well ($470).

Keep in mind that no one from Porsche NA has offered any refund at this time, so we're just spitballing at this point.

Let's see if I get a call on Friday and what direction that takes.
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snstevens

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Thank you for your involvement in trying to get this disappointing matter resolved. Both the cable update and refund options seem attractive to me, but I would advise against any compensation which is fully or partially based on extended EA charger use because:
> not every Taycan owner uses Electrify America (I, for one, have used them once over my two years of ownership),
> nobody knows how EA or its competitors/alternatives will evolve (or survive) over the next years, let alone decades, so lifetime use may be an esoteric concept.
I don't know where the Friday conversation will be going, and I plan to listen a lot and not jump into proposing a specific solution.

Hopefully the folks at Porsche NA are focused on making the unit work as a 9.6KW EVSE, and that will solve all of our problems.
 

madeyong

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Well, I have the PMCC Dock as well, and actually I like the look of it in my garage. However, you're right - if I were offered a refund to return the PMCC the Dock will be sitting there empty, so it would make sense to ask for a refund of that as well ($470).

Keep in mind that no one from Porsche NA has offered any refund at this time, so we're just spitballing at this point.

Let's see if I get a call on Friday and what direction that takes.
I love the look of the dock in my garage, which is why I’d prefer a commitment to fix the issue, replaces cables if need be, etc., rather than a refund.
 

kort

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it's a bit surprising that none of the owners involved in this thread is an attorney who could comment on the viability of a class action suit by those of us impacted by this
 

TDinDC

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it's a bit surprising that none of the owners involved in this thread is an attorney who could comment on the viability of a class action suit by those of us impacted by this
I would expect that those who may or may not have law degrees are the ones who are saying it's not worth the time or effort of litigation (unless you were the attorneys who were filing the case, and even then it's a gamble).
 


Tooney

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What would be the basis for a suit? Product overheats? Manufacturer has reset default charging rate? Requested money back after couple years and manufacturer refused? Product warranty violation? Something that belongs in small claims court? Home or car damaged by the product? Persons injured?
"I'm not happy with the product" does not seem like a basis for legal action, even for small claims.
 

madeyong

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What would be the basis for a suit? Product overheats? Manufacturer has reset default charging rate? Requested money back after couple years and manufacturer refused? Product warranty violation? Something that belongs in small claims court? Home or car damaged by the product? Persons injured?
"I'm not happy with the product" does not seem like a basis for legal action, even for small claims.
Agreed. I think the whole fiasco was handled horribly by Porsche from a customer service perspective but I see no basis for legal liability.

The fact of the matter is that the PMCC was and still is marketed as being capable of charging at 40 amps and 9.6kWh. It still can. Neither the software update nor the sticker prevents us from manually adjusting the charge rate back to 40 amps and initiating a direct charge at 9.6kWh. The fact that Porsche made it annoyingly frustrating to do so by defaulting back to 20 amps upon sleep mode (whether it be for safety reasons or because Porsche says that’s the better user experience with the PMCC on a macro scale because of over heating issues for some), doesn’t really give rise to a legal claim in my opinion. The current advertising for the PMCC is misleading yes. But it is not false.
 

Kingske

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For those of us silly enough to also buy a case for the PMCC (I’m a member of that club), a refund on the case as well as the PMCC would be nice. Otherwise we have a case with nothing to put into it.

Good luck!

Cheers,
John
At least, we now understand why there is so much dead space inside the box... Looks good, though.
 


raharris

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At least, we now understand why there is so much dead space inside the box... Looks good, though.
I’m pretty sure my Mustart charger will fit inside it; maybe I should get creative and find something to fill the blank opening on the front. Maybe 3D print a housing for the ring camera I have above it :)
 

Reg

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I spoke to a service person at Porsche about the charger issue.

1. The overheating is in the cable that plugs into the wall at the point where it connects to the charger.
2. When it overheats, it shuts down the unit.
3. Before this recall, he had customers complain that the unit shut down and their car didn't charge enough, and they also noticed that the cable was warm.
4. Previously the solution was to swap out the cable, which worked...until it didn't. He mentioned he had one customer come back 3 times and they kept swapping out the cable.
5. He thought that Porsche is working on a more permanent solution to address the cable, and that resetting the default was a temp solution. Obviously, he doesn't know if there will be a solution or what the future holds.
 

snstevens

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I don't know where the Friday conversation will be going, and I plan to listen a lot and not jump into proposing a specific solution.

Hopefully the folks at Porsche NA are focused on making the unit work as a 9.6KW EVSE, and that will solve all of our problems.
It's 3:50 pm PT and no call from Porsche NA yet. I'll update this thread if they call me ...
 

wemct

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Thanks to this forum, when I got my Taycan back from the dealership after latest round of recalls and updates, I noticed the silly sticker that was placed on my PMCC. As soon as I got home, I disabled the wifi and the automatic updates on the PMCC. Fortunately the dealership installed the sticker, and manually changed the charging amps to 20, but did not update the PMCC software, so I was able to set it to 40A and don't need to reset it.

I was in the group of owners with @daveo4EV who went through the effort to measure the various temps of the unit, cables, etc. two years ago. Although the temps were within tolerances and the plug and cable were hand hold-able they were hot. I did not experience any of the shut downs or damage to the sockets, etc. Fast forward, I moved to a new house and had an 80A circuit, wiring and a new 14-50 receptacle installed by an electrician. It was an industrial receptacle, but not a Hubbell. The temps at the new installation were lower than the original house (which did not have an industrial grade 14-50 receptacle).

A few months ago, I decided to purchase a Hubbell 14-50 receptacle. I installed it myself and took the time to torque the fittings to the manufacturer's specs (very important step missed by most people including electricians), etc. The change to the Hubbell receptacle was very noticeable. The temps of the plug and cable are warm (not hot). The actual receptacle is cool.

I know that wiring, ambient temp and many factors will effect the problem that was originally raised by @daveo4EV (thank you for raising it and keeping everyone informed for the past 2 years). I wanted to share my experience on how much of a difference spending money to use the right receptacle had for me (this is relevant for all EVSEs not just the PMCC).
 

QueenBean

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Thanks to this forum, when I got my Taycan back from the dealership after latest round of recalls and updates, I noticed the silly sticker that was placed on my PMCC. As soon as I got home, I disabled the wifi and the automatic updates on the PMCC. Fortunately the dealership installed the sticker, and manually changed the charging amps to 20, but did not update the PMCC software, so I was able to set it to 40A and don't need to reset it.

I was in the group of owners with @daveo4EV who went through the effort to measure the various temps of the unit, cables, etc. two years ago. Although the temps were within tolerances and the plug and cable were hand hold-able they were hot. I did not experience any of the shut downs or damage to the sockets, etc. Fast forward, I moved to a new house and had an 80A circuit, wiring and a new 14-50 receptacle installed by an electrician. It was an industrial receptacle, but not a Hubbell. The temps at the new installation were lower than the original house (which did not have an industrial grade 14-50 receptacle).

A few months ago, I decided to purchase a Hubbell 14-50 receptacle. I installed it myself and took the time to torque the fittings to the manufacturer's specs (very important step missed by most people including electricians), etc. The change to the Hubbell receptacle was very noticeable. The temps of the plug and cable are warm (not hot). The actual receptacle is cool.

I know that wiring, ambient temp and many factors will effect the problem that was originally raised by @daveo4EV (thank you for raising it and keeping everyone informed for the past 2 years). I wanted to share my experience on how much of a difference spending money to use the right receptacle had for me (this is relevant for all EVSEs not just the PMCC).
Pretty sure NEC states you should not use a NEMA 14-50 receptacle on any circuit greater than 50a; probably what the "50" in NEMA 14-50 means. 60a and above should be hardwired directly and generally require a means of disconnect (switch or breaker) within sight/reach of the appliance (EVSE). The receptacle itself is probably not rated for amperage higher than 50a.

I think the idea is that if the circuit average is greater than 50a, the appliance should not be getting plugged/unplugged at all.
 

Klepper

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Pretty sure NEC states you should not use a NEMA 14-50 receptacle on any circuit greater than 50a; probably what the "50" in NEMA 14-50 means. 60a and above should be hardwired directly and generally require a means of disconnect (switch or breaker) within sight/reach of the appliance (EVSE). The receptacle itself is probably not rated for amperage higher than 50a.

I think the idea is that if the circuit average is greater than 50a, the appliance should not be getting plugged/unplugged at all.
Interestingly enough, they do make a NEMA 60A plug/receptical:

Porsche Taycan [North America] - this is getting embarrassing - Porsche nerfing/neutering the PMCC via OTA update? F19DF31B-9673-4FA7-9051-620AF6E1075F
 
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daveo4EV

daveo4EV

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Interestingly enough, they do make a NEMA 60A plug/receptical:

F19DF31B-9673-4FA7-9051-620AF6E1075F.jpeg
my research indicated these are used for pluggable 3-phase power devcies - not home/residential - I've not found a 60/48 amp EVSE that has one of these male-plugs on it…

of course it's just power - so you could totally wire one of these up - but 6 gauge wire (required for 60 amp circuit) is really really "stiff" and hard to work with - so I would hardly call it "mobile"…

the plug above is a NEMA 15-60 and there are also 14-60 NEMA plugs…but the mobility of a non-3-phase 60/48 amp EVSE is questionable in my opinion.

the PMCC/PMC+ is somewhat mobile and can handle 22 kW in Europe -but I think it's because of 3 phase wiring vs. the US 240V standard.
 
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