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W1NGE

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I read today the Hertz dumped 20,000 Tesla's (I'm ok with that) and cancelled an order for 62,000 (yes) Polestars over 5 years. They had already taken delivery of 13,000 but have agreed with Polestar that they won't sell them for a year to avoid a cataclysmic fall in value in 2nd hand market.

Why?

Massive depreciation $m impacting their bottom line. Public not renting in high numbers due to guess what, range anxiety.and lack of infrastructure.

Expect similar statements from other companies -SAP have ditched Tesla as a company car - this is a serious issue for the market and is brand agnostic.

The honeymoon is over I'm afraid (for now) making EVs a questionable short to mid term choice going forward.

I think I'll console myself and get me one of those bumper stickers for my Taycan announcing "It's ok, my other vehicle is a Sinclair C5!"
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Good thing for me my T is a lease. But, yes this current environment sucks for EVs. Would help if the media didn’t blow things out of proportion or mislead on EV stories.
 

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BEV may not be the only low emission game in town soon with Honda, GM, Hyundai and BMW committing to press on with hydrogen
 

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I can partly see why rental cars might struggle, especially in the US where, listening on here, the charging infrastructure really is rubbish. In a rental, you aren't going to be home charging mostly.

SAP I'm less understanding of. They could supply chargers at work, and people will be driving to/from work you would think.

There must be some underlying reason though.
 

WasserGKuehlt

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I read today the Hertz dumped 20,000 Tesla's (I'm ok with that) and cancelled an order for 62,000 (yes) Polestars over 5 years. They had already taken delivery of 13,000 but have agreed with Polestar that they won't sell them for a year to avoid a cataclysmic fall in value in 2nd hand market.

Why?

Massive depreciation $m impacting their bottom line. Public not renting in high numbers due to guess what, range anxiety.and lack of infrastructure.
(0. This isn't new(s); maybe the Polestar bit, which came out earlier this week.)
1. Hertz did not say depreciation - they said massive repair costs and long turnaround time. I suspect renters don't treat their cars gingerly?
2. Depreciation is a copout - Tesla has been playing the devaluing game to increase sales, which directly impacted Hertz, and not so directly other manufacturers. They are now trying to play the "EV market is tanking" game to walk out of commitments made to, among others, Polestar. In turn, Polestar said they will restructure the agreement, relieving Hertz of their obligation to purchase a larger number of cars, and instead securing the right of first refusal. Polestar did it right, Tesla seems to only prioritize new sales.
3. It's always a pendulum - the rush to EVs was an overreaction to pandemic-era supply/production, and EVs "tanking" now (+ Ford and GM cutting outlook, production and workforce) is an overreaction to the over-supply. It'll take a few swings for the market to stabilize - and yes, i fully expect there will be another rush to EVs in the next year (and a half).
 


Jhenson29

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I can partly see why rental cars might struggle, especially in the US where, listening on here, the charging infrastructure really is rubbish.
My understanding is that it’s slightly worse than rubbish, but we’re working on it with plans to hit rubbish level in 3-5 years.
 
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W1NGE

W1NGE

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(0. This isn't new(s); maybe the Polestar bit, which came out earlier this week.)
1. Hertz did not say depreciation - they said massive repair costs and long turnaround time. I suspect renters don't treat their cars gingerly?
2. Depreciation is a copout - Tesla has been playing the devaluing game to increase sales, which directly impacted Hertz, and not so directly other manufacturers. They are now trying to play the "EV market is tanking" game to walk out of commitments made to, among others, Polestar. In turn, Polestar said they will restructure the agreement, relieving Hertz of their obligation to purchase a larger number of cars, and instead securing the right of first refusal. Polestar did it right, Tesla seems to only prioritize new sales.
3. It's always a pendulum - the rush to EVs was an overreaction to pandemic-era supply/production, and EVs "tanking" now (+ Ford and GM cutting outlook, production and workforce) is an overreaction to the over-supply. It'll take a few swings for the market to stabilize - and yes, i fully expect there will be another rush to EVs in the next year (and a half).
Umm https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmon...electric-vehicle-hertz-cars-buy-polestar.html
 
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WasserGKuehlt

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Right. Here's a better link, for when the Tesla sale first came out: Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars | Reuters

" Hertz will instead opt for gas-powered vehicles, it said on Thursday, citing higher expenses related to collision and damage for EVs [...]", " While consumers enjoy the driving experience and fuel savings (per mile) of an EV, Jonas said there are other "hidden costs to EV ownership"." and also " "Expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter," Hertz said in a regulatory filing on Thursday. "

Then Polestar's CEO just hinted at a looming problem in the EV market: Tanking used values (msn.com) (original link is behind paywall). You'll notice that, by now, Hertz changed their tune to
"At the time, the deals were a signal that electric cars were on their way to the mainstream, but 2023 proved to be a more difficult year for the EV segment as demand softened and EV resale values collapsed.

Hertz cited these challenges when it began selling off a large portion of its electric vehicle fleet earlier this year."

So, Hertz went on the record (in a corporate filing) to say EVs are costlier for them. This, then, became the usual spin on how "consumers don't like EVs" - which is utter bullshit. Some may, but it's not universal.
 


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Hurtz was a tenant in a building I ran when it purchased these Teslas. It never planned for the infra (surprise!) required to cycle these cars through at full charge to renters. It offered to install "free" Tesla chargers in our parking garage near its rental office with many limitations in jamming fast chargers into a 50 year old, urban, under-powered, multi-level site. We never got far enough along to know if they were Level 2's, but Hurtz wanted exclusive use. Though Tesla's system is a dream compared to EA, people on vacation or even biz travelers don't want to chase juice boxes.

Polestar Portland had 10 lease returns for sale two weeks ago for an average of $35K, some had less than 10K mikes on them, all are sold now.
 
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W1NGE

W1NGE

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Right. Here's a better link, for when the Tesla sale first came out: Rental giant Hertz dumps EVs, including Teslas, for gas cars | Reuters

" Hertz will instead opt for gas-powered vehicles, it said on Thursday, citing higher expenses related to collision and damage for EVs [...]", " While consumers enjoy the driving experience and fuel savings (per mile) of an EV, Jonas said there are other "hidden costs to EV ownership"." and also " "Expenses related to collision and damage, primarily associated with EVs, remained high in the quarter," Hertz said in a regulatory filing on Thursday. "

Then Polestar's CEO just hinted at a looming problem in the EV market: Tanking used values (msn.com) (original link is behind paywall). You'll notice that, by now, Hertz changed their tune to
"At the time, the deals were a signal that electric cars were on their way to the mainstream, but 2023 proved to be a more difficult year for the EV segment as demand softened and EV resale values collapsed.

Hertz cited these challenges when it began selling off a large portion of its electric vehicle fleet earlier this year."

So, Hertz went on the record (in a corporate filing) to say EVs are costlier for them. This, then, became the usual spin on how "consumers don't like EVs" - which is utter bullshit. Some may, but it's not universal.
I get all that and I don't think any news source is 100% credible.

No smoke without fire plus the negative press tends to have subliminal consequences on the buying public.

Fact remains (unfortunately) EVs are currently in a precarious position for all sorts of reasons.
 

Murph7355

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Well if you believe anything published in Daily mail, so be it. They have been ani EV forever
This is very true... But in the UK, their readership demographic is exactly the one EV buyers would be more likely to come from (older, do less miles, have their own homes, likely with parking opportunities, etc).

People are strange.

Nevertheless, charging infrastructure here is getting much better very quickly. When prices settle, everything will normalise.
 
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FlyingPoint

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As of 2/8/24, there is over a negative 20 spread in the average wholesale price to the average retail selling price. There is more pain to come as these two indicators must be closer to equal for the market to stabilize.
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