NYT Opinion why Performance Battery Plus is not necessary

[CarbonTax]

for those without a NYT paywall
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/27/opinion/electric-car-battery-range.html

excerpt:
Proving that E.V.s can road trip may have been an important psychological hurdle for the technology to tackle, but it remains more psychological than real: the average American motorist drives about 40 miles per day and 95 percent of our car trips are 30 miles or shorter.

Despite dramatic growth in median E.V. range, to 234 miles in 2021 from 90 miles in 2015, consumer demand for range is always one step ahead. Three hundred miles might have been a desirable figure for potential E.V. buyers in 2019, but come 2021 it was 341 miles, according to findings from Cox Automotive. We could cater endlessly to this desire for more range without ever satiating it: More is always more, but more is also never enough.

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[Schn3ll]

More riveting content from Carlos Slim’s mean girl blog.

The last people who should have an opinion on EV’s are Manhattanites without a vehicle.

 

[whan]

I kind of agree that it's somewhat of a psychological hurdle, but I do think the ask for more range is more than that. Reality is that the end goal is to make the EV ownership experience more convenient than traditional ICE cars, and we're not quite there yet. While yes, 90% of people's trips are quite short and can be done pretty much with any modern EV, there are 10% of use cases that require extra planning. And that's the key thing - there is still a significant amount of mental energy that's required to plan around EV limitations for those 10% of trips, and having to think about that is not convenient.

For example, we live in Marin, and my wife's parents live in Santa Clara. That's a 75 mile trip to visit them. This past weekend, we attended one of her relative's wedding another 30 miles south of SJ, and stayed at her parent's house overnight (which doesn't have a L2 charger). So overall, over the course of 2 days, we'd be travelling ~210 miles round trip, assuming no other detours.

While yes, on a given day we're not driving more than 150 miles, this is an example of why I chose to order the big battery in my (yet to be delivered) Taycan. The small battery most likely would make the trip, but then I'm sure I'd still worry a bit when the range gets low, especially if it's cold out. I'd have to plan in advance to set my charging to 100% vs. the standard 85% in order to get the full range. Yes, I could stop to charge as well at a L3, but I also don't want to have to make a 20-30 minute stop for what otherwise would be a 1.5hr trip home on the way back. Even though we are in CA, having to also worry about charger reliability is another factor

The above is just one example of trips that are infrequent, but not uncommon for many people in the US. In most cases we can plan for them and make it work with an EV, but people (especially non-enthusiasts) want an experience that is like with their gas cars - just being able to hop in their car, make it to where they need to go, do things there, and make it back, without having to take extra care or thought into logistics and pre-planning.

 

[kort]

in my many years of owning EVs, a leaf, 3 teslas, the taycan and an Ipace I believe that the sweet spot for range is 250-300 miles of range, less than that and you could run short, anything over that you pay for in price and weight of the battery pack. As long as DC fast charging is available at decent intervales for longer trips, which I do about 5-6 times a year I am ok with the range of my taycan and ipace.

 

[TDinDC]

The article is factually accurate. But the need for range is highly dependent upon the availability (and cost) of charging stations and how long it takes to charge. In the US, the east and west coasts and urban areas throughout the country have done a decent job for current demand. But increase demand or focus on areas where infrastructure is inadequate, which tends to correlate to areas where longer drives are more common, and the public will focus more on range, because range expands your options . . .

 

[gnop1950]

Well maybe I'm an anomaly but the one thing that was never a consideration, for me, for any of the ICE cars/trucks I've owned was how far I could go on a tank of gas. MPG, yes, but that was mostly a cost consideration.

Part of the reason I never cared about range was that gas stations were all over the place and filling up my vehicle took minutes. Now if I had a car/truck that did less than say 200 miles on a tank I probably would have noticed and not been pleased.

When I was looking to buy my first Porsche and decided on the Taycan range was something I cared about but only that it could do say 200 miles on a charge. I don't do many really long trips these days but I frequently do trips that are around 140 - 200 miles and I would have found having to stop to refuel on one of those trips irritating, as I would have in any of my ICE vehicles.

But back to the ubiquity of gas stations versus DC Fast chargers. I believe that once DC Fast chargers are as simple to use, as available, and nearly as fast as refueling with gas, most people will care much less about EV range so long as it remains 200-300 miles or greater. Even when I was younger I seldom liked to drive for more than 150-200 miles without stopping for a short break.

While I don't think the article is wrong about how far we normally drive I do think that most people would be put off by the extra planning it currently takes for long EV road trips. Especially those that can only afford one vehicle. Speaking of which, I believe the article is correct in that current EV prices put most EVs out of the reach of average new car buyers.

 

[Tooney]

The plan is not for optimizing battery supply. The plan is moving from today's inefficient "private vehicle ownership and leasing" use model to "mobility on demand", "fleets", and "optimized mobility system" use model.

NYT:​

For a century, Americans have had the luxury of choosing from a single, relatively uniform class of ‌vehicles designed to serve all of their transportation needs whether they live in a small town or a big city. Electrification replaces that simplicity with a wide variety of different options, each with advantages and disadvantages in different realms. Government policy should match a limited battery supply to where it can have the maximum impact for consumers and the environment. That means incentives for a wide variety of smaller-battery vehicles to electrify our most common transportation needs and for home charging for all levels of housing density.​

​

For some American households that may mean owning a single plug-in hybrid. For others that may mean a 150-mile E.V. for weekday miles and a hybrid truck for weekend projects and outdoor activities. Still other households might be able to serve their mobility needs with a mix of e-bikes, public transit and an occasional rental car. ‌All‌ of these options ‌are better at delivering short- and medium-term fleet electrification in an era of battery scarcity than simply waiting for batteries to become cheap enough for every American to own a 300-plus- mile E.V.​

​

WEF:​

Raising Ambitions: A new roadmap for the automotive circular economy

 

[DerekS]

I have PB+ and I'm of the camp there's no such thing as too much range.

I've been doing a lot of road tripping and it has completely tanked my guess-o-meter. I'm down to like 170 miles at 85% charge (from 235.)

I am considering clearing out the "total" trip meter to see if it causes a guessometer reset, but I hate to lose that...it's literally every mile since the car rolled off the line.

 

[kmcdonal]

The other thing the article skims over is that when it is cold, your 300 miles of range can quickly become 200-250 miles. If you have a 200 mile battery, you could be looking at 150 miles of range or less.

 

[philbur]

With our Taycan I find we spend waaaaay less time refueling our car than our previous ICE - that is mainly because on the daily it is when we are not using it and at home, so no extra logistics to going to a gas station and waiting - that adds up! which most dont seem to put into their calculations. On roadtrips the main thing is a bit more planning and opportunity to charge up where there is something to do - this is different as well - instead of stading by your car like a bozo for 5-10 mins we get out and do something for 10-20 mins. Also - you just need to take on as much as you need for your trip + buffer, so the fill up full concept is also different.

overall - its different. We enjoy making the most of it and really hate the stinky\dirty gas stations!

 

[Marcad80]

As an EV’r for the last 7 years, range was not a big deal as long you have an EV and a gas car. We had a Model S 60 with 170 miles of range, and a gas Equinox for trips.

Once we sold our last gas car and went full EV, we still needed a long range traveler. Even though we only take 2 1000+ trips per year. Ability to nicely make these trips was a requirement of one of these cars, period. Had nothing to do with financial calculations of renting cars or saving money with painful tripping….

I could live in a 500 sqft house and save a lot of money, but I don’t….

 

[Torv]

Like most of you here, I too have the big battery in my Taycan and I'm glad I do, though I doubt I drive to LA from the Bay Area more than twice a year. With the new software update, I am getting a nominal increase in range, nothing to write home about, but it's something and it is handy on that I-5 drive.

But to the article’s point, the 300+ mile range goal is something to aspire to simply because if EV adoption is to succeed then better range is necessary as so many potential EV customers aren't homeowners with the ability to install home chargers, but apartment dwellers where home charging is either impractical or impossible due to the short-sightedness of apartment owners and landlords.

Hopefully with the signing of the recent legislation into law, more public chargers will proliferate and make the issue of range anxiety a thing of the past. But that of course hinges on having EV charging companies make the charging experience simple and reliable, something they've yet been able to demonstrate they can do.

 

[DoctorLife]

Range is very much a “now” thing. Whether anyone wants it or not, we will get dramatically more range in EV’s in future. Looking at Mercedes EQXX at over 700 miles range proves this will happen sooner rather than later. ICE cars developed better quality, reliability and efficiency over the last few decades, I don’t think EV’s will be any different. Waiting for that eventuality however, is not what any of us want to do…..cant wait for my Taycan Turbo, on order, whatever the range, just simply a brilliant car (had a 4S previously).

 

[rich_r]

I do agree with the gist of the article; it is human nature to always want "more" and the real solution is better charging infrastructure so that we dont' feel the need to all lug around heavy long-range capable battery packs for the 5% of trips where it might be useful. Extra weight is never a good thing - especailly when it comes to sports cars. If Porsche eventually comes out with a 500 mile Taycan, I hope they also offer 250 mile version using the same technology that will weigh ~500 pounds less.

 

[Jhenson29]

instead of stading by your car like a bozo for 5-10 mins

Most pumps I go to are around 8 or more gpm. There’s one by my house that’s actually around 12 gpm. It’s less than 90 seconds to refill my Macan. Less than 3 min from the time I pull off the road to the time I pull back on. I’ve never stood outside of my car at a pump for 5 min let alone 10.

Charging at home is generally better, for sure; but I’m not sure the 3 min I spend once or twice a week stopping somewhere that’s on my way anyway is a significant impact compared to both the time and planning for EV charging on road trips.

Depends on how often one travels. A lot for me (although admitittedly less so far this year, but that’s just how schedules worked out)

Home charging isn’t without issues either.

I’ve probably spent more time last year dealing with a failed EVSE than I spent refueling gas (the whole year).

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