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Observed Behavior: North American 2020 Taycan has max 11 kW L2 charger (48 amps) not max 9.6 kW (40 amps)

daveo4EV

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ummmmm - another case of Porsche being conservative with their specs…my 2020 Taycan charging in my garage…Porsche's official specs indicate 9.6 kW maximum charge rate (40 amps)

https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/taycan/taycan-models/

Screen Shot 2020-07-13 at 9.37.36 AM.png

1st picture below shows that Taycan charging from the Porsche Mobile Connect charger plugged into a NEMA 14-50 plug - 8.68 kW as expected from a 9.6 kW 40/50 amp circuit - car charged last night as expected no problems…

IMG_1926.jpeg

woke up this morning and decide to play around - I'm a long time EV owner and Tesla owner and I have a multi-charger shared circuit Tesla L2 charging setup in my home (4 chargers "sharing" a 100 amp circuit - 80 amp maximum charge rate)…

So I got out my JDApter and plugged in the Taycan to charge - I know this works from various test drives - but I never paid attention to the actual charge rate…

ummmm based on this picture my Taycan has come with a 11 kW (48 amp) charger just like in Europe…note the 10.46 kW charge rate listed below when it's plugged into my 80 amp Tesla Wall charger

IMG_1927.jpeg

now Porsche documents the maximum charge rate for the North America Taycan at 9.6 kW - that's exactly expected for 40 amp charge rate (50 amp breaker) - but when I plug my Taycan into my Tesla L2 chargers I'm getting what would be expected for an 11 kW charge rate (or 48 amps [60 amp breaker])

I'm guessing Porsche is using the same AC/DC converter for European models and US Models - and they document the US max rate at 9.6 kW for the following reasons:
  1. Their Mobile Charger which is NEMA plug based maxes out at 40 amps (because there are no 60 amp NEMA plugs in North America - hardwired only)
  2. Most public chargers are 30 amps anyways
  3. The vast vast vast majority of J-1772 chargers on the market are 40 amps or less
  4. Any charge rate above 40 amps would require a "hardwired" charger and therefore is not "mobile"
  5. They may change supply parts at some point in the future and truly limit the car's onboard charger to 40 amps…since that matches the spec.
  6. Simplicity - charging is complex enough and confuses most people - why document a charge rate that's more than the charger Porsche provides can handle - simplify the message - buy our car, buy our charger, plug it into the wall and you'll get the maximum 40 amp L2 charge rate
    1. vs a message, of well if you buy our charger we only do 9.6 kW, but the car can do 11 kW, but to get that you'll have to buy a charger from someone else and it will have to hardwired, and can't be put in the car and carried around with you…yadddda yaddda yaddddaa - tooo complex!!!
However my observed charge rate from my Tesla Wall Chargers with my 2020 Taycan shows pretty clearly it's an 11 kW charger for L2 charging…

now if you want to have a charger that can charge your Taycan at 48 amps there are two chargers that I could recommend…
  1. Tesla Wall Connector (gen 1, gen 2, or gen 3) - they can be configured for a 60 amp breaker, 48 amp charge rate, or 11/12 kW maximum charge rate - again this will be hardwired connection - and will not be mobile - and it is the Tesla Wall Charger - NOT the Tesla UMC that you need.
  2. ClipperCreek HCS-60 - it requires a hardwired install & 60 amp breaker but will charge your Taycan at close to 10.46 kW vs. the 8.6 kW maximum from the Porsche Mobile Connect charger.
Now YCRMV (Your Charge Rate my Vary) - and Porsche might change parts they provide on the North American cars…and eventually only ship a true 40 amp onboard charger in the Taycan…but I think Porsche is fudging the numbers for simplicity and to be conservative, it's likely your North American Taycan has a 11 kW charger on board, which is the same spec for Euro. models…but up until now we just assumed that would require European 3 phase 16 amp power to reach that level - my charging data shows 11 kW charge rate on normal residential use 240 volt circuit.

hmmm - update the Porsche spec's page? :rock:

Screen Shot 2020-07-13 at 9.37.36 AM.png
 
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louv

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Nice! I doubt my 150 year old house would appreciate that much current coming through the mains. I’ll have to be happy with 7.5kW.

My MINI Cooper SE has a max AC charge rate of 3.3kW. It’s so cute.
 
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daveo4EV

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hmmm - I'm wondering if someone with access to the service parts list could confirm that the AC/DC rectifier for both the North American and European vehicles are the same part number - if they are Porsche has documented the European models at 11 kW and the North American models at 9.6 kW - but if they are the same part - we know they are identical - and that would explain why the maximum charge is actually 11 kW…

anyone?
 

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I’m just wondering why, after getting the right 14-50 NEMA plug and installing a 6 gauge wire with a 50 amp breaker, is the plugs’s cable so damn hot after even 45 minutes or so? I know the cable to the car gets warm but the 14-50 plug’s cable gets really hot, to the point where if I squeeze it pretty hard I almost, but not quite, have to let it go. Oddly though, after a coupla hours, that cable is not as hot as it was after the 45 minute mark. Still very warm but not hot to the squeeze. The 6 gauge wire is always warm but not hot, per se.
All this electricity stuff is just plain weird, but also has me a bit concerned if this is normal or not. I can’t imagine letting this charge overnight with wires generating this amount of heat.
 

KenU

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This is my set up, professionally installed by my 35 years-in-the-business electrician . Anything amiss here?

CC8A4530-F737-4CEB-BD1C-ADF60E11F21D.jpeg
 

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Looks like a very good installation in the picture. When you say the cable from the wall outlet to the charger gets very hot, how about the plug itself? Is there something not quite right with the plug?

Second question. The cable that is going to the car, do you unwind that completely Or are there still a few turns around the charging dock? Since there is AC going through that cable can that induce some effect on the lead? I only know when I use my extension lead with my pressure washer that I need to unwind it all or else it gets very hot.
 

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Thank you for your response, Peter. The first 2 sentences of my post say "the plug's cable". The cable you see in the photo that's part of/connected to the plug, going around on top - into the charger - that's the cable that gets extremely hot. Not the wall outlet wire. The plug itself does get very warm also but not as "hot" as the plug's cable.. And yes, the cable to the car is completely unwound when connected for charging.
 
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daveo4EV

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so given the proper EVSE/charger (any 48 amp J-1772) the Taycan seems to match the charge rate of a Tesla Model S/X, or Model 3 LR/Peformance

48 amps max charge rate is pretty common on Tesla's with notable exceptions being the cheaper models which can only do 32 amps (40 amp breaker)
 

ron_b

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@daveo4EV that is really interesting that it will go up to 48 amps on single phase power. it wouldn't surprise me that it's the same charging unit in the car but I was worried about whether the cables running from the plugs to the charger are rated for that current. The three phase 11 kilowatts is a course much lower amperage, 32 amps. as Porsche is already having me purchase their Porsche connect charger I think I'll live with the 20% slower charging speed, but I certainly understand the motivation to get a 60 amp charger and cabling.
That was a great test you did with your JDapter.
 

elberk

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hmmm - I'm wondering if someone with access to the service parts list could confirm that the AC/DC rectifier for both the North American and European vehicles are the same part number - if they are Porsche has documented the European models at 11 kW and the North American models at 9.6 kW - but if they are the same part - we know they are identical - and that would explain why the maximum charge is actually 11 kW…

anyone?
Ever thought that it might be because of type approval in the US? At least WLTP always measures and rates EV's efficiency including the charging equipment. So as there is no 60amps equipment from Porsche to supply to the WLTP tests that might be the simple explanation, why they rated it @9.6kW.

To develop and produce a US specific On Board Charger would not make sense taking into account the sales numbers of the market segment we are talking about. The OBC has to be flexible anyhow, as there are 120/208/240/400V 1ph/2ph/3ph and 50-60Hz outside US, too.
 

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Thank you for your response, Peter. The first 2 sentences of my post say "the plug's cable". The cable you see in the photo that's part of/connected to the plug, going around on top - into the charger - that's the cable that gets extremely hot. Not the wall outlet wire. The plug itself does get very warm also but not as "hot" as the plug's cable.. And yes, the cable to the car is completely unwound when connected for charging.
It may be worth to ask you electrician to check the cable and see if there is a problem in the cable. Maybe manufacturing fault or damaged somehow. I am really surprised that your cable gets very hot quickly and it then settles down and gets lower? I would have expected the other way around.

You may also talk to your Porsche dealer and see if they could lend you another cable with plug for you to test.

If everything is done and designed to the correct standards, which I believe it is, it is strange.

Hope you find a solution!
 

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It may be worth to ask you electrician to check the cable and see if there is a problem in the cable. Maybe manufacturing fault or damaged somehow. I am really surprised that your cable gets very hot quickly and it then settles down and gets lower? I would have expected the other way around.

You may also talk to your Porsche dealer and see if they could lend you another cable with plug for you to test.

If everything is done and designed to the correct standards, which I believe it is, it is strange.

Hope you find a solution!
@KenU and I are experiencing the same situation with the similar charger and charging dock installation. But last night while charging I checked Connect app to see SOC after about 2 1/2 hours and it said charging error. I had not seen that before so went out to garage and sure enough there was no power to Mobile Charger Connect. Checked the circuit breaker and it was tripped. Breaker was also very warm to the touch so it did its job but don't know what would have caused it to trip. I had electrician come back out previously to double-check install and he said everything looked good, so now I have to wonder if the Mobile Charger Connect is a problem or the cable itself. Anyone have any insights or suggestions?
 

wmras

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@KenU and I are experiencing the same situation with the similar charger and charging dock installation. But last night while charging I checked Connect app to see SOC after about 2 1/2 hours and it said charging error. I had not seen that before so went out to garage and sure enough there was no power to Mobile Charger Connect. Checked the circuit breaker and it was tripped. Breaker was also very warm to the touch so it did its job but don't know what would have caused it to trip. I had electrician come back out previously to double-check install and he said everything looked good, so now I have to wonder if the Mobile Charger Connect is a problem or the cable itself. Anyone have any insights or suggestions?
In the US, most breakers rated at 30 amps and higher are magnetic, so heat from a wire or connection would not be a great influence on the trip point and warm is not an issue - too hot to hold may be an issue. Most likely the current or a surge was too high (magnetic breakers trip faster than thermal breakers).

If your cable is too "hot to hold" check both the current rating versus the actual current draw (<= 80% of rating). Also check your receptacle (socket) - if it does not grip tightly the extra resistance will cause it to be hot. We are installing a Hubbell industrial grade receptacle - five times the cost of a residential grade Leviton receptacle but worth it.
 
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daveo4EV

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I was reading through the Porsche Mobile Charge Connect Manual - and it has setup instructions for various regions that have no plug (hardwired only) - in the regions that have hardwired setup only they have instructions for wiring both single phase and three phase setups - interestingly enough these setups are 11 kW charge rate with software override in the PMCC setup screens…

so I'm also guessing that your PMCC is potentially an 11 kW EVSE if you could get the connector that is the bare hardwire connector in North America.
 
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daveo4EV

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@daveo4EV that is really interesting that it will go up to 48 amps on single phase power. it wouldn't surprise me that it's the same charging unit in the car but I was worried about whether the cables running from the plugs to the charger are rated for that current. The three phase 11 kilowatts is a course much lower amperage, 32 amps. as Porsche is already having me purchase their Porsche connect charger I think I'll live with the 20% slower charging speed, but I certainly understand the motivation to get a 60 amp charger and cabling.
That was a great test you did with your JDapter.
I took your feedback seriously and I was rethinking my 48 amp charging "success" - but after seeing that the 11 kW charging is possible in the PMCC manual for hardwired setups in other global regions for single phase setups I'm going to be reasonably un-concerned about the wire capacity between the charging port and the AC/DC rectifier inside the vehicle - I'm betting this is standardized across the vehicles and same world wide and sufficient to support 48 amp 240 volt single phase AC charging.

the manual in question is Porsche Part number:

9Y0.012.701-EU - Porsche Mobile Charger Connect - Dr. Ing. hc F. Porsche AGfiles.porsche.com › multimedia › none › default › Pors...

pages 20 & 21 discuss "hardwired" configurations - and it appears Porsche provides a "bare-wire" EVSE supply cable in some regions

they discuss the installation is only valid for South Korea, Singapore, Uruguay

Page 23 lists the Power as 7.2 kW, 11 kW, 22 kW for each of these regions

I'd love to get ahold of one one of these "Electrical Fixed Connection" supply cables for the PMCC and try it out on 240v/signal phase US power (L1 & L2 + ground) and see if the charger:
  1. functions
  2. allows the maximum amps to be configured in this configuration beyond 40 amps
but based on this I'm unconcerned about the wires in the car from the charging port.
 
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