Observed Behavior: North American 2020 Taycan has max 11 kW L2 charger (48 amps) not max 9.6 kW (40 amps)

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daveo4EV

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@nwills ClipperCreek has _NO_ features other than it’s ugly and it always works and it doesn’t overheat and is mostly bulllet proof metaphorically…

you simply plug the car in and use the vehicle‘s charge % limites and any scheduling support provided by the vehicle.

this is best practice in my opinion as when the charger has it’s own “smarts” and the car has it’s own “smart” sometimes there are too many smarts and they outsmart each other and you wake up in the morning having found out that the car didn’t charge last night because the car and the charger couldn’t get on the same page with one another

I’m going to nit-pick your use of the term “instructions and the clipper creek follows them” - the clipper creek has _NO_ smarts (most EVSE’s have NO smarts) - they are dumb on/off valves - the car can ask them to turn the power “on” and the car can ask them to turn the power off. Saying an EVSE follows the car’s instructions is like saying a water-line follows your lawn sprinklers scheduling computer - the water line is just plain dumb - water either is allowed to flow or not allowed to flow…in this metaphone the ClipperCreek (and most EVSE’s) are the water line, and the car is the irrigation control computer…

so yes - if you install a “dumb” EVSE teh car will control the charging session - and that is the most reliable thing in my opinoin - because when the it doesn’t “work” for some reason it greatly simplifies investigation and resolution of the problem:
  1. did the EVSE have power? - if the answer is yes - then the problem MUST be the vehicle and it’s scheduling settings.
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Schlossj

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@Schlossj listen to @Miwa - he is correct.

_ALL_ 60 amp chargers will be hardwired.

_IF_ you want to go with a Tesla charger for 60 amps you will need to purchase a Tesla Gen2 Wall Charger.

there are _NO_ 60 amp “mobile” EV chargers.

I can highly recomend the ClipperCreek HCS60 and you won’t have to deal with the TeslaTap for your daily charging ritual.

please feel free to ask more questions.
You nailed it. I’m finally clear. Sorry it took so long!
 

nwills

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@nwills ClipperCreek has _NO_ features other than it’s ugly and it always works and it doesn’t overheat and is mostly bulllet proof metaphorically…

you simply plug the car in and use the vehicle‘s charge % limites and any scheduling support provided by the vehicle.

this is best practice in my opinion as when the charger has it’s own “smarts” and the car has it’s own “smart” sometimes there are too many smarts and they outsmart each other and you wake up in the morning having found out that the car didn’t charge last night because the car and the charger couldn’t get on the same page with one another

I’m going to nit-pick your use of the term “instructions and the clipper creek follows them” - the clipper creek has _NO_ smarts (most EVSE’s have NO smarts) - they are dumb on/off valves - the car can ask them to turn the power “on” and the car can ask them to turn the power off. Saying an EVSE follows the car’s instructions is like saying a water-line follows your lawn sprinklers scheduling computer - the water line is just plain dumb - water either is allowed to flow or not allowed to flow…in this metaphone the ClipperCreek (and most EVSE’s) are the water line, and the car is the irrigation control computer…

so yes - if you install a “dumb” EVSE teh car will control the charging session - and that is the most reliable thing in my opinoin - because when the it doesn’t “work” for some reason it greatly simplifies investigation and resolution of the problem:
  1. did the EVSE have power? - if the answer is yes - then the problem MUST be the vehicle and it’s scheduling settings.
Interesting. Thanks. I will definitely explore this option. Quicker charge is a good thing!
 

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Can you set any charging parameters with the Clipper Creek or are the charging profiles within the vehicle and the Clipper creek follows them?

Porsche recommends not charging beyond 85% for day to day charging. Are you in “Direct Charge” mode every time you plug in and it charges to 100%?
No ability to set anything on the HCS-60. The charging is all controlled by the car and it's internal inverter. That is also true on the PMCC, although the PMCC does provide options to log sessions, upload charging data to your MyPorsche account and manage the amount of available current flowing to the car (we've all been advised in some way, shape or form to pull the amperage back to 32 amps on the PMCC if the power pigtail heat is worrisome for you).

Since the car "owns" the profiles and timers, the car is in control of the timing, mimimum and/or maximum extent of charging. You can use the "Profile" settings to achieve a MINIMUM CHARGE as quickly as possible (NOTE: your car will continue to charge beyong the MINIMUM until you end the charging session and disconnect your car from the EVSE). Or, you can define a PROFILE that instructs the car to charge to a MAXIMUM charge by a set time by days of the week. If you have BOTH a PROFILE selected AND a TIMER set, the PROFILE settings will take precedence.

You DO have the option to select "Direct Charging" and that will cause the car to charge as much as possible until you end the charging session. I had selected "Direct Charge" just for the heck of it when I took that picture.

It took me a while to work through the "logic" of PROFILES and TIMERS. I can't say that I agree with it, as it falls into the same "logic" of entering values and functions in an old HP12C Financial Calculator! (I much preferred my TI Programmer calculator!)

Toby
 

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It took me a while to work through the "logic" of PROFILES and TIMERS. I can't say that I agree with it, as it falls into the same "logic" of entering values and functions in an old HP12C Financial Calculator! (I much preferred my TI Programmer calculator!)
You were ok until this heresy! RPN or die! :D
 


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Hello all,

First - thanks everyone on this thread - it is super helpful. And particularly thank you @daveo4EV :)

So my question is - I have an order for an MY 2021 Taycan that is about to lock and I want to finalize my plan on my garage setup for it before it locks (Mainly I want to avoid getting the Porsche Docking Mount for the PMCC if I am not going to need it). Based on this thread I would like to get a ClipperCreek HCS-60.

Is there any documentation from Porsche that we can rely on that the HCS-60 is a supported charging solution for the Taycan? Either by Porsche stating it works with a set of charging solutions that follow accepted standards and ClipperCreek stating this solution follows a matching standard? Or by the HCS-60 being equivalent to something one might come across away from home that is a generally accepted charging solution?

Has anyone had a Porsche dealer tell them it is fine?

I expect there is no compatibility problem - but it would be nice if there was something I could rely on from Porsche that they could not later say it was not a supported solution.

Thanks,
-Bruce
 
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@BruceF

Porsche's official North American Website lists the Taycan as having a 9.6 kW (40 amp)charge rate. Therefore Porsche could at any time deliver a Taycan with those specifications and there would be nothing we could do to complain.

However in the rest of the world (ROW) the Taycan comes standard with and 11 kW (48 amp) on board charger and documents that fact.

It is very very very very unlikely porsche is placing different parts in the North American Taycan that the ROW Taycan's - just form a logistics/supply chain point of view there is no reason to do this.

All North American Taycan's conform the J-1772 EV charging standard/specification. That specification documents the physical plug type and the electrical specifications for using that plug. The J-1772 standard _IS_ universal and adopted by every major EV vendor (even Tesla). Therefore _ANY_ J-1772 compatible charger should be able to charge the Taycan.

During the Taycan's short life there are current _NO_ documented incompatibilities with any J-1772 based charger.

ClipperCreek manufactures some of the best and most reliable J-1772 chargers available for the North American market and they fully conform to the J-1772 standard - Porsche has committed to supporting this standard since it's what you do for the North American market - any incompatibility with ANY J-1772 charger should be taken as a vehicle defect to be addressed by the manufacturer.

Several members on this forum are charging their Taycan with the ClipperCreek HCS-60 charger.

the Worse possible outcome here is as follows:
  1. you order your Taycan
  2. you order a ClipperCreek HCS-60 charger
  3. Porsche secretly begins sources parts for the North America Taycan that limit it's maximum charge rate to 9.6 kW (the documented limit)
    1. they do this and deal with the logical/supplychain/parts inventory/manfucturing headaches in order to save $7.84 on the lower spec part increasing profitability for the fractional number of units they ship to NA vs. the rest of the world
  4. you receive you car and your charger
  5. you plug your Taycan in and it only charges at 9.6 kW instead of 11 kW
  6. but it all works and functions just fine - although not as fast as you were hoping
the above scenario is the worst possible outcome!!

the likely outcome is that it all works just fine and you get a very reliable charger and you charge your new EV slightly faster than documented.
 
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but it would be nice if there was something I could rely on from Porsche that they could not later say it was not a supported solution.
ANY certified J-1772 charger _IS_ by definition a supported solution - the only wiggle room up for negotiation here is the actual charge rate - the Taycan _WILL_ charge from the ClipperCreek if it doesn't it would be very very difficult for Porsche to say we don't work with one of the most respected and established EV charging vendors in North America.
 


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It should also be noted that the MY'2021 Taycan have a North American option for an on oboard 19.2 kW charger - which is the maximum charge rate covered by the J-1772 specification for North America.

ClipperCreek makes 100/80 amp chargers that meet this standard.

Installation of this J-1772 charger in your garage would require:
  1. a new shiny 100 amp circuit/sub-panel
  2. a 100 am breaker
  3. appropriate wire gauge for 100 amp building code
  4. a 100 amp EVSE (clipperCreek)
  5. the maximum charge rate for this setup is 80 amps
    1. 80 amp * 240 volts = 19,200 watts (19.2 kW)
this is a sweet setup.

It's also worth mentioning this setup can charge "slower" cars just fine (Bolt, Model 3) - so your purchasing a charger that will charge _ANY_ EV at it's maximum rate…

Also the 19.2 kW Taycan does NOT require 19.2 kW - if you plug it into a HCS-60 - it will happily charge at 11 kW since that's all the charger offers.

it again is very very very likely the North American Charging hardware in the MY'2021 Taycan _IS_ identical to the 22 kW European/ROW charger, but since there is _NO_ documented standard for 22 kW in North America it's limited to 19.2 kW.

there is not existing J-1772 charger that can do more than 19.2 kW - since there is no documented specification for that - there is no hardware manufactures to support it.

19.2 kW is the fasted L2 charger for the North American Market:

the vehicles I know of that can charge at this rate are:
  1. certain Tesla Model S's with the optional onboard dual charger setup - 80 amps
  2. certain Tesla Model X's with the optional onboard dual charger setup (very rare) - 80 amps
  3. certain Tesla Model X's with the optional 72 amps onboard charger
  4. certain Tesla Model S's with the optional 72 amps onboard charger
  5. MY'2021 Taycan's with the optional 22/19.2 kW charger
Most EV's shipping these day are 16/32/40 amps.

Model 3/S/X ship with 48 amp chargers
Taycan ships with a 48 amp chargers
 

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Thanks @daveo4EV - per your earlier post even that worst case there is fine with me. Though like you I expect it will work fine at 11KW.

The "worst case" I would be worried about is Porsche claiming since I did not use a supported charging solution they would not cover a problem with the car in the future - claiming it charging AC at 48 AMP somehow broke something (or even worse if it caught fire in my garage... but we won't go there...).

I tried to track this down in the documentation and found the following from the MY 2020 owners manual (also conveniently posted by someone in this forum - thank you to them).

"Only use vehicle charging cables that have been
tested and approved for charging the high-voltage
battery in an electric vehicle (the charging
plug standardised in accordance with IEC
62196-2, SAE J1772 or GB/T 20234-2 and the
charging process in accordance with IEC
61851-1, SAE J1772 or GB/T 18487 (modes 2
and 3)), and comply with national standards and
legislation.
Vehicle charging cables without protection
(standardised in accordance with IEC 61851-1,
SAE J1772 or GB/T 18487 (mode 1)) are not
supported."

So it would seem that the risk would be somehow the ClipperCreek charging cables fall into the last sentence and are "charging cables without protection...". So it sounds like I would just need to confirm that does not apply to the ClipperCreek if I wanted to chase this down and be 100% certain.

And per your later post - yes - it would be a sweet setup and I am considering that.

I have a Tesla Model 3 and had our home electrical service upgraded when we go it so I believe I actually have a spare 100 amps....

-Bruce
 
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@BruceF how are you charging your Model 3? and what Amps - Model 3 LR editions support 48 amp charging - and a TeslaTap/JDApter would charger the Taycan just fine using your existing Model 3 EV charger.
 

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@daveo4EV we are charging with the Tesla wall charger. I am not sure what Gen Telsa charger is - we purchased it fall of 2018. It chargers our Tesla M3P and supports 48 Amp charging.

Unfortunately - the Tesla charger is outside and so I need one inside the garage where the Taycan will be parked. When we got the Tesla the garage space was needed for non-EV vehicles so it's charger ended up outside.

That said - thanks for the suggestion - I will probably get the TeslaTap adapter just to have it. Particularly if I delay getting the Taycan's garage charger installed.

I just checked on our setup and while we have plenty of Amps coming to our house to do the 19.2 kw solution you mentioned - when I had the Tesla installed we again unfortunately only ran a 125 AMP panel to the garage area for EVs. I think I saw somewhere on the forums where you could share the current and somehow balance what is available - so if two EVs were drawing more than available it would balance them. Do you know if I could do that with the 19.2 kw solution and if so what I need to get to balance the load? (and if it is a good idea or a bad idea that is too complex to consistently work...)
 
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yes you can "share" load with the following chargers:
  1. Tesla Wall Chargers Gen2 - you can share up to 4 chargers (1 master, 3 slaves) sharing up to a 100 amp breaker (80 amp charge rate)
  2. Any "share2" enabled ClipperCreek chargers - I know they have share2 for 60/80 amp chargers - not sure if they support "share2" for their 100 amp charger - have to consult clipper creek for more detail
I'm running 4 Tesla Gen2 Wall chargers sharing a 100 amp circuit - and it works great - my Model X gets a full 72 amps if it's the only one charging, and if two EV's are charging both get 40 amps…

when "sharing" a breaker you have to "connect" the two Tesla Wall chargers via 2-wire connectors - instructions are in the Tesla Wall Charger manual.
  1. wire two Tesla Gen 2 chargers up to the "same" 240 volt 100 amp circuit/breaker
  2. connect the two Tesla Gen2 wall chargers via 16/18 gauge two wire pairs (no more than 50 ft apart)
  3. Set one charger (the master) to the "breaker" size - 100 amps (or what ever breaker size you have) - rotary dip-switch
  4. Set the 2nd charger (the slave) to "slave" setting on the rotary dip-switch
  5. now the two chargers are "connected" and sharing the load
Tesla Gen3 wall chargers also can "share" load, but they re limited to 48 amps each - not clear if they can share a 100 amp circuit, but limit to 48 amp charge rate - I have NO personal experience with the gen3 Tesla Wall Chargers, but manual says you can load share up to 16 of them.

Clipper Creek share 2 chargers allow 2 separate ClipperCreek chargers to share a single circuit. I've not used them, but have friends with them installed and it works great.
 
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I checked - my Tesla charger is Gen 2 (part 1050067-01-E).

Sounds like if I could still get a Gen 2 the easiest thing would be to do that and set them up to share. But from what I can see Gen 2 is no longer sold :(

You mention the Clipper Creek 80 Amp has a "share" function - is that 80 Amp with 64 Amp usable? (i.e. this one https://store.clippercreek.com/HCS-80-64-amp-charging-station)

My current Tesla charger is connected to a 60 Amp breaker. I assume if I were to have a shared 80 Amp or 100 Amp breaker that they would need to replace that - and may need to run new copper from the breaker to the Tesla charger?

Hashing this out - the 22kw option on the MY 21 Taycan is sounding more interesting. Out of curiosity - would you have selected the 22kw option for $1680 if it was available when you got your Taycan?
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