Plaid beats Taycan Turbo by 11 seconds around ring... will Porsche respond?

manitou202

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The video showed the drive with the joke, and the time is officially witnessed by the 'Ring folks:
https://www.nuerburgring.de/news/tesla-faehrt-offiziellen-rekord-fuer-elektrofahrzeuge

I'm pretty sure they would have had an issue with modified brakes, etc.
Then they must have been swapping out brakes and wheels during the runs. Here are pictures of the car with the same number plates. This car clearly has cross-drilled brake rotors which aren't currently offered on the Plaid Model S.

https://www.motor1.com/photo/5996558/tesla-model-s-plaid-spied-at-the-nurburgring/

fc67ac6a501fbc1bc115d57110b13337.jpg


tesla-model-s-plaid-spied-at-the-nurburgring.jpg


tesla-model-s-plaid-spied-at-the-nurburgring.jpg
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fullmetalbaal

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Are you guys saying Elon cheated??? How dare you..
I think it's good to watch these things carefully: pretty much every manufacturer, perhaps save Porsche, has been caught being, eh, creative with the rules on the Ring. I remember similar issues with the Lamborghini Aventador runs.

But I do think that it's also important to wait until cheating is proven, vs. reported by click-baity press. Also, remember that, at least according to German press, the Taycan never did a fully official run... (src: https://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/neuheiten/tesla-model-s-plaid-mit-nuerburgring-rekord/). But then again, who knows if AMS has that right or not...

I really wish press were more liable when they either fabricate or endorse fabricated stories.
Clearly that "swampland" in China is the source of more than a few cars right now... how many articles swore up and down that it was impossible for Tesla to build something there, etc. etc?

Click-bait and sensationalism driven advertising revenue is really killing pretty much all decent journalism.

Here's something they could have talked about for example: I think in general, Ring times have become pointless. Especially when they are achieved with special editions that don't make sense in any other setting (looking at you, Jaguar). IMHO, Ring times are interesting in 3 areas: race cars, actual sports cars, and now, EVs.

I put EVs in that bucket because I think we risk optimizing entirely for range. And that's a vicious cycle that will keep adding weight. More battery->bigger brakes and more structure->more weight->more battery needed for the same range->...
There needs to be some incentive to develop options with smaller battery packs, without 2 charging ports, electric trunk thingamabob etc.
The Taycan is fun to drive, but it definitely behaves like a heavy car.

So, I look forward to a few years of Porsche and Tesla and anybody else who steps into the ring duking it out on race tracks. Instead of looking for faults in any one attempts, I'm going to focus on what the answer is going to be from competitors.

So until any manipulation is proven, for me this is a "Congratulations Tesla! Great job" + "Porsche, you're up! Show the world what a Taycan Turbo S 2022 Edition Nurburg Pack can do!".

(yes, horrible name, I'm in engineering and not marketing for a reason).
 

fullmetalbaal

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Then they must have been swapping out brakes and wheels during the runs. Here are pictures of the car with the same number plates. This car clearly has cross-drilled brake rotors which aren't currently offered on the Plaid Model S.

https://www.motor1.com/photo/5996558/tesla-model-s-plaid-spied-at-the-nurburgring/

fc67ac6a501fbc1bc115d57110b13337.jpg


tesla-model-s-plaid-spied-at-the-nurburgring.jpg


tesla-model-s-plaid-spied-at-the-nurburgring.jpg
Assuming this picture is real, and from the same car, and from the same days, it's not inconceivable that they switched brakes and other bits after the official runs to get a few hours of testing in on that "track pack" that they already announced.

IIRC manufacturers have to spend substantial money to rent the race track for a set of hours. Not unreasonable to expect Tesla to try to squeeze in some extra testing now that they have the full crew over there. Professional mechanics familiar with the car and full manufacturer support can probably switch that out in less than an hour.

Until there's proof that this was the official run, and that this isn't allowed by the rules, etc. I would file this as "interesting, I wonder what's going on here".
 

Vercingetorix

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I remember when Porsche used to use the Nurburgring for testing reliability. Pound around there for a day to see what breaks. This lap time stuff is going to get someone killed.
 

Needsdecaf

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I don't care about 1/4 or 0-60 times in general, but I would like a much lighter weight Taycan or Cayman/911 EV equivalent that can hold it's own around a road course. If Porsche gets into an EV numbers contest I guess Nurburgring times are probably the most relevant. However, they need to run a 30 minutes session without power reduction, and need to weigh under 4000lbs to save tires and brakes. The Mission R seems like to best possibility if they make an affordable version (Cayman /911 price range).

I used to take my 911 and Cayman to the occasional track day. I haven't taken my Turbo S because it doesn't seem to be worth destroying my brakes and tires for a couple of short runs. I look forward to the day where an electric Porsche can give a GT3 a beating.
Yeah, I’m really looking forward to the Macan EV.
 

Needsdecaf

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Based on the pictures floating around, I was pretty sure the brakes weren't stock on the Model S that ran the ring. It seems Jalapnik has the same impression.

https://jalopnik.com/something-about-teslas-model-s-plaid-nurburgring-run-do-1847654465

Yes you can easily modify a Plaid with aftermarket brakes, but adding carbon ceramics is likely a $10k-$20k addition. When you need this kind of modification then the Plaid is actually a $150k car, not a $130k. Add in sport seats so you don't slide out the window, and the lighter weight forged wheels and you're easily at $160k+. Who knows what tires were actually used. It start to seem less and less competitive price wise. Plus not even offering these options from the factory feels disingenuous.

Safety modifications are legit because of the danger of running at these speeds. So roll cage, harness, shut off, fire suppression, no problem. But performance modifications are another story.
The result was certified by the Nurburgring. That wouldn’t have happened with the mods Jalopnik claimed. Moreover, Misha Charoudin from Apex would have likely called it out too.
 

Needsdecaf

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I remember when Porsche used to use the Nurburgring for testing reliability. Pound around there for a day to see what breaks. This lap time stuff is going to get someone killed.
Huh? All the manufacturers still do this. And when records are set, the track is cleared and all the marshals are there. Far more likely to have a serious issue during TF where some wanker blows coolant or oil all over the track, or some idiot won’t get out of the way of a faster car.
all these cars have full race seats, cages and harnesses. These guys aren’t monkeying around.
 

Vercingetorix

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Huh? All the manufacturers still do this. And when records are set, the track is cleared and all the marshals are there. Far more likely to have a serious issue during TF where some wanker blows coolant or oil all over the track, or some idiot won’t get out of the way of a faster car.
all these cars have full race seats, cages and harnesses. These guys aren’t monkeying around.
Not 40 years ago.
 

manitou202

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Assuming this picture is real, and from the same car, and from the same days, it's not inconceivable that they switched brakes and other bits after the official runs to get a few hours of testing in on that "track pack" that they already announced.

IIRC manufacturers have to spend substantial money to rent the race track for a set of hours. Not unreasonable to expect Tesla to try to squeeze in some extra testing now that they have the full crew over there. Professional mechanics familiar with the car and full manufacturer support can probably switch that out in less than an hour.

Until there's proof that this was the official run, and that this isn't allowed by the rules, etc. I would file this as "interesting, I wonder what's going on here".
I agree it's a legitimate group that wouldn't let something non-factory slide, but the pictures I posted are real. The first is from the actual certification article showing the Red Model S Plaid with the number plate BIT 0679, the second and third pictures are from completely unrelated photos from Motor 1 showing the same car running around the ring. I simply zoomed in the Motor 1 photos showing the cross-drilled rotors. Tesla ran the red car at some point with non-factory rotors. Like I said, maybe they were testing out different brake setups for some other reason or they are about to announce a "Track Pack" that includes upgraded brakes and then claim the "Track Pack" was actually the car that ran the time.
 

fullmetalbaal

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I agree it's a legitimate group that wouldn't let something non-factory slide, but the pictures I posted are real. The first is from the actual certification article showing the Red Model S Plaid with the number plate BIT 0679, the second and third pictures are from completely unrelated photos from Motor 1 showing the same car running around the ring. I simply zoomed in the Motor 1 photos showing the cross-drilled rotors. Tesla ran the red car at some point with non-factory rotors. Like I said, maybe they were testing out different brake setups for some other reason or they are about to announce a "Track Pack" that includes upgraded brakes and then claim the "Track Pack" was actually the car that ran the time.
I was not suggesting that you or any other forum participant was firing up Photoshop and manipulating images. I was saying that I don't trust Motor1, jalopnik etc. to do their due diligence when they pick up photos somewhere.

I think right now the most likely scenario is: they completed their time trials early, and took the extra time to test out the new track pack. Musk and also the Nurburgring official page were both pretty clear that the car completing the time trial was stock directly from Fremont.

The brake photo is also not the only one. There's also sites (with photos) claiming the car had a normal steering wheel instead ("it's not stock! OMG!"). Yet the official video clearly shows the yoke. ().
 

Yves_0016

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Frankly I couln’t care less. My Porsche has more tradition, class, heritage and pedigree in one wheelnut than the Tesla Plaid in the entire car. 11 seconds on the Nordschleife doesn’t change even 1% of this.
 

Dee

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Frankly I couln’t care less. My Porsche has more tradition, class, heritage and pedigree in one wheelnut than the Tesla Plaid in the entire car. 11 seconds on the Nordschleife doesn’t change even 1% of this.
Indeed.
And those 11s are only 2,4% faster than the Taycan Turbo....
What is all the fuzz about anyway?
Soon the Rimac Nevera will do a run and that's just the end of this non-discussion anyway...
 

Jhenson29

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Soon the Rimac Nevera will do a run and that's just the end of this non-discussion anyway...
But until then…we must all drive our cars in shame!!!😭🤣

What really cracks me up is a decent number of us don’t have a turbo or turbo s. I have a lowly 4S. 🐢🤷‍♂️

I’m even further removed from caring that some car I don’t own went around a track I don’t drive on faster than another car I don’t own…🙄

And…none of that is considering what I would do if I went around the track, which would probably be 12 min or something dumb assuming I don’t crash halfway through, regardless of car.

And this isn’t a sore loser comment. I’d have the same thought if the Taycan Turbo was 11 sec faster than the Plaid…
 

manitou202

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Frankly I couln’t care less. My Porsche has more tradition, class, heritage and pedigree in one wheelnut than the Tesla Plaid in the entire car. 11 seconds on the Nordschleife doesn’t change even 1% of this.
The only reason I care about the Taycan running the ring, is this is part of the Porsche tradition. It's not that I expect Porsche to be the fastest, but it's a cool benchmark to use for cars of this caliber. It doesn't mean one model is better than the other, but it gives everyone a sense of the manufacturers capability in engineering.

The Taycan Turbo ran a respectable time, and the Model S Plaid took it one notch further. If anything it will be fun to watch EV's progress on the ring. It won't be long before they hold the overall production car records.
 
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