Plaid beats Taycan Turbo by 11 seconds around ring... will Porsche respond?

Mr.Smith

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I agree it's a legitimate group that wouldn't let something non-factory slide, but the pictures I posted are real. The first is from the actual certification article showing the Red Model S Plaid with the number plate BIT 0679, the second and third pictures are from completely unrelated photos from Motor 1 showing the same car running around the ring. I simply zoomed in the Motor 1 photos showing the cross-drilled rotors. Tesla ran the red car at some point with non-factory rotors. Like I said, maybe they were testing out different brake setups for some other reason or they are about to announce a "Track Pack" that includes upgraded brakes and then claim the "Track Pack" was actually the car that ran the time.
Does any of this look completely stock, including roll cage?

Porsche Taycan Plaid beats Taycan Turbo by 11 seconds around ring... will Porsche respond? 20210911_145919
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kreshi

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Does any of this look completely stock, including roll cage?

20210911_145919.jpg
The whole story people say that after the regular run they modified the car because they were done early and had time to kill.. right.. Elon with his impeccable record of truth telling..
 

manitou202

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Does any of this look completely stock, including roll cage?

20210911_145919.jpg
Like I said earlier, I think it's fair to have safety equipment installed as long as it doesn't impact performance. For example depending on how a roll cage is installed, it could add stiffness to the chassis thus improving performance. Fire suppression and shutoffs seem completely reasonable.

The digital gauge cluster and racing seat are questionable. Technically a poor factory gauge cluster (like Tesla) could make driving under track conditions harder. The standard Model S Plaid seats definitely don't help, they are more like a couch than a racing seat. But I'm willing to accept some of these modifications.

However, brakes are a different story. If the factory brakes can't survive a lap at 10/10ths then offer a performance brake option from the factory. No swapping aftermarket parts. Same goes with factory wheels and tires. You can't claim our car was 11 seconds faster than a Porsche Taycan Turbo and costs $50k less, but you needed to add $20k carbon ceramic brakes, $10k forged wheels, and $3k Cup2 tires. I'm interested to see if anything more comes out about the brakes and wheels.
 

Needsdecaf

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Not 40 years ago.
Im really not understanding your point. I’m trying to. You said “I remember when Porsche used to pound around the ring to test”. They still do. You said “this lap record chasing is going to get someone killed”. But it’s not all that unsafe, compared to any other high speed motor event.

so what does what they did 40 years ago have any significance?
 


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I think Porsche will respond by creating a higher performance model at the expense of range. You can "tune" EV's to maximize range or performance or compromise on something in the middle. 100 kWh batteries seem to be the maximum that manufacturers are currently prepared to go to as the weight of the car and space requirements go up.

From the current Edmonds video, the Plaid has a 100 kWh battery and a range of 345 miles. Edmonds top range rated car the 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range with a battery of 82 kWh also has a range of 345 miles.

Performance sucks electrons so choose your poison.

And the Taycan, now a 2 year old car still shows pretty well with a range of 323 miles on their tests. And you get all the other Porsche attributes.
 

manitou202

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I think Porsche will respond by creating a higher performance model at the expense of range. You can "tune" EV's to maximize range or performance or compromise on something in the middle. 100 kWh batteries seem to be the maximum that manufacturers are currently prepared to go to as the weight of the car and space requirements go up.

From the current Edmonds video, the Plaid has a 100 kWh battery and a range of 345 miles. Edmonds top range rated car the 2021 Tesla Model 3 Long Range with a battery of 82 kWh also has a range of 345 miles.

Performance sucks electrons so choose your poison.

And the Taycan, now a 2 year old car still shows pretty well with a range of 323 miles on their tests. And you get all the other Porsche attributes.
The Turbo S in range mode is really efficient. I don't think performance powertrains will necessarily impact the range too much. Aero and tires will be the biggest factor. They are going to need active aerodynamics to increase downforce on a track, yet make the car slippery when driving for range on the highway.
 

JimBob

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You are probably right. Tuning the car is an easier fix than changing the battery and motors.

Additional comment.
Tesla looks like it used a brute force method to up the performance. Bigger battery and new motors. Not tuning the car.
 
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hooneyrob

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The Tesla is also not limited to circa 160mph so being able to travel faster will make a huge difference over that length so obviously the Tesla is faster.
 

XLR82XS

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Frankly I couln’t care less. My Porsche has more tradition, class, heritage and pedigree in one wheelnut than the Tesla Plaid in the entire car. 11 seconds on the Nordschleife doesn’t change even 1% of this.
+2
 

XLR82XS

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fullmetalbaal

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You are probably right. Tuning the car is an easier fix than changing the battery and motors.

Additional comment.
Tesla looks like it used a brute force method to up the performance. Bigger battery and new motors. Not tuning the car.
The new car has better aerodynamics ("tuned"), a different suspension (unclear how much is completely new vs. tuned), different brakes and different wheels. It also has better battery cooling w/the same cells and chemistry (is that tuning?), and completely new motors.

For the race track time specifically, I wouldn't be surprised if the better cooling had more impact than the ridiculously high HP.

Not as relevant for the race track, but relevant day to day: they included a heat pump, the whole MCU stack is new, the whole interior is new.

I think the fact the car LOOKS almost unchanged makes people focus on the motor change.
If you look at the details, it looks like they changed almost every surface except for what the car looks like on the outside...

This is much more than just a stronger motor.
 

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The new car has better aerodynamics ("tuned"), a different suspension (unclear how much is completely new vs. tuned), different brakes and different wheels. It also has better battery cooling w/the same cells and chemistry (is that tuning?), and completely new motors.

For the race track time specifically, I wouldn't be surprised if the better cooling had more impact than the ridiculously high HP.

Not as relevant for the race track, but relevant day to day: they included a heat pump, the whole MCU stack is new, the whole interior is new.

I think the fact the car LOOKS almost unchanged makes people focus on the motor change.
If you look at the details, it looks like they changed almost every surface except for what the car looks like on the outside...

This is much more than just a stronger motor.
@daveo4EV's race prep shop went over an early Plaid and noted it was virtually a completely different car underneath.

Still, by the looks of the video, it understeers massively. Tires? Alignment? Taycan much more composed.
 

fullmetalbaal

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@daveo4EV's race prep shop went over an early Plaid and noted it was virtually a completely different car underneath.

Still, by the looks of the video, it understeers massively. Tires? Alignment? Taycan much more composed.
Yeah, watching the video, the car looks like a handful on the track. The Taycan may very well be the better car on the track - I'm just saying it's much more than just a new motor :)


This is the model that Tesla should follow for Plaid Plus or Plaid 2 or whatever, and Porsche for the J2 etc.:



Now that level of performance, I can get behind :)
 

Mr.Smith

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Yeah, watching the video, the car looks like a handful on the track. The Taycan may very well be the better car on the track - I'm just saying it's much more than just a new motor :)


This is the model that Tesla should follow for Plaid Plus or Plaid 2 or whatever, and Porsche for the J2 etc.:



Now that level of performance, I can get behind :)
Spoiler alert for the shortest Nordschleife video. I'm also remided what garbage driver I really am when I see these
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