Porsche Mobile Charger Connect vs Mobile Charger Plus

[Klepper]

Yes, but the point is you don't need to deviate from the std PMC+

PMC+ can also be added to your network via a PLC connection (it has an ethernet interface built in) - so not having WiFi is not a strong argument against either.

What maximum supply does 50A support in US?

Completely agree. It's free, and it works great.

If you find you need something else in the future (wifi, or whatever), you can sell the PMC+ and buy something else that can do everything the "upgraded" PMCC could do and more. No need to waste the $1120 on the PMCC.

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[W1NGE]

You can find the project here in case it is of interest: https://github.com/andig/evcc

Correct, the PMC+ will not show the SoC. If seeing the SoC in the Porsche Connect App works for you, great, it mostly doesn't for me because of the horrible mobile connection. And often doesn't work at all in garages in cities here in Germany. So for customers with a bad mobile connection at the parking location, this is really helpful.

But imho this is not the most critical feature of the PMCC anyway. Plug & Charge for ease of use (if you lock the charger with a PIN that is) and the support for optimized (cost or time) are more important. The PMC+ can't provide any of those as the car can't send the required information to the charger.

So if you understand how timers and profiles work (which is for most too complicated), and have time based tariffs and/or a solar installation, the combination of PMCC and the Porsche HEMS provide the means to charge your car more cost effectively. All by using the UI in the car or the Porsche Connect app to setup the charging preferences.

Thanks - I've a PMCC and a black belt in programming it!

At some point the car will update Porsche servers with charging details and so when coverage permits you should get to view SOC albeit intermittently.

 

[ciaranob]

Yes, but the point is you don't need to deviate from the std PMC+

PMC+ can also be added to your network via a PLC connection (it has an ethernet interface built in) - so not having WiFi is not a strong argument against either.

What maximum supply does 50A support in US?

I wasn’t referencing any ‘need’ wrt the PMC+ - just the point re the 25ft cable you referenced which has nothing on the 3rd party option.
My personal need is to keep the PMC+ permanently in the car and have the utility of a WiFi connection to my home 3rd party charger - extremely satisfird with my choice.

 

[daveo4EV]

this thread is great information - most of the “features” of PMC+/PMCC are not available in North America due to the lack of the Porsche Home Energy Manager and 3 phase power is not a thing in Residential homes in North America.

the Charger may speak ISO protocols but it also speaks J-1772 - because it can charge EV’s that speak J-1772 - the Taycan may speak ISO protocol to the PMC+/PMCC but the Vehicle also supports J-1772 because you can charge a Taycan at North American J-1772 EV chargers

so it’s not one or the other - the vehicle has to support multiple charging protocols and it does - which protocol is being used at any given time is a fairly complex detail for which there is no information displayed on the charger or in the vehicle.

the more advanced features of the ISO protocol (SOC & Plug&charge being two of the most visible) are not available on MY’2020 Taycan or any Audi eTron shipped todate - so this sort of support is very very hit or miss at this time and therefore a difficult feature to plan on.

I have always said the PMC+/PMCC makes very little sense to me personally for the North American market vs. other pure J-1772 options - but in other markets the Porsche charger may be a better choice due to it’s enhanced functionality.

 

[daveo4EV]

What maximum supply does 50A support in US?

• 50 amp breaker in the US will support 9.6 kW (40 amp @ 240V) charging
  • US Building codes require you to de-rate the circuit’s breaker rating by 20% for “continuous use” devices like an EVSE (continuous use is defined as device can/will run @ full current for 2 hours or more)
    • so all North American EVSE’s have two specfications - their required breaker rating and the consequential charge rate which is 80% of the stated breaker requirement
    • North American EVSE vendors like to confused customers and some market their charge rate and other’s market the breaker rating - this means no two 40 amp EVSE’s are necessarily the same until you read the fine print (40 amps could be the charge rate meaning a 50 amp breaker, or the breaker size meaning a 32 amp charge rate)
      • adding to the confusion there is no 40 amp breaker plug-type for North America - so plug based 32 amp EVSE (requiring a 40 amp breaker) use a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug type - confusing the common consumer into not understanding the differences between 32/40 amp EVSE’s since they both use the same type of plug - insert {face-palm} here.
• the next size up is a 60 amp breaker which does 11 kW (48 amps @ 240V) but is has to be hardwired due to US building codes - can not be plug based.
• maximum J-1772 L2 charge rate in North America is 80 amps @ 240 volts - 19.2 kW - requiring a 100 amp breaker and gauge 4/3/2 wire (beefy beefy stuff)
  • most homes in North American have 100/125 amp service for the ENTIRE home’s usage - so adding a 100 amp dedicated circuit for an EVSE is not commonly affordable or easy.

to date to my knowledge Porsche has yet to ship/sell/make-available in North America a Porsche EVSE that supports more than the NEMA 14-50/6-50 plugs - 240v @ 50/40 amps - I believe the complexity here is the fact that it would have to hard-wired and most homes could not support it in practice - it’s a complex process and normally expensive to bring a 100 amp circuit online

Porsche documents the charging limit for the North American Taycan at 9.6 kW - but I’ve yet to encounter a Taycan that enforces that limit. My personal taycan and a sampling of other 2020/2021 Taycan from friends and acquaintances all charge quite happily at 48 amp when presented a J-1772 11 kW charger (48 amp charge rate w/60 amp breaker) - this makes sense since I do not believe there is even a 9.6 kW On-Board-Charger in the VW/Audi/Porsche supply chain - it would appear porsche is installing the same hardware world wide and does not have a specific 9.6 kW OBC for the North American market (friends eTron also documented with a 9.6 kW charging limit also charges at 11 kW (48 amp) when a bigger charger is presented to it) - Porsche could choose to enforce this limit in software but I would be disappointed if they chose that option since the OBC clearly works fine at 11 kW.

for the North American Market the $1120 PMCC is a tough pill to swallow and given it’s tendancy to overheat and melt it‘s NEMA 14-50 plug it’s not a great choice - it’s also big/heavy and does not have a wide range of NEMA supply cables - basically it’s only features are the Porsche Logo and the Price - there are better higher quality at more reasonable prices for North America.

 

[ciaranob]

• 50 amp breaker in the US will support 9.6 kW (40 amp @ 240V) charging
  • US Building codes require you to de-rate the circuit’s breaker rating by 20% for “continuous use” devices like an EVSE (continuous use is defined as device can/will run @ full current for 2 hours or more)
    • so all North American EVSE’s have two specfications - their required breaker rating and the consequential charge rate which is 80% of the stated breaker requirement
    • North American EVSE vendors like to confused customers and some market their charge rate and other’s market the breaker rating - this means no two 40 amp EVSE’s are necessarily the same until you read the fine print (40 amps could be the charge rate meaning a 50 amp breaker, or the breaker size meaning a 32 amp charge rate)
      • adding to the confusion there is no 40 amp breaker plug-type for North America - so plug based 32 amp EVSE (requiring a 40 amp breaker) use a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug type - confusing the common consumer into not understanding the differences between 32/40 amp EVSE’s since they both use the same type of plug - insert {face-palm} here.
• the next size up is a 60 amp breaker which does 11 kW (48 amps @ 240V) but is has to be hardwired due to US building codes - can not be plug based.
• maximum J-1772 L2 charge rate in North America is 80 amps @ 240 volts - 19.2 kW - requiring a 100 amp breaker and gauge 4/3/2 wire (beefy beefy stuff)
  • most homes in North American have 100/125 amp service for the ENTIRE home’s usage - so adding a 100 amp dedicated circuit for an EVSE is not commonly affordable or easy.

to date to my knowledge Porsche has yet to ship/sell/make-available in North America a Porsche EVSE that supports more than the NEMA 14-50/6-50 plugs - 240v @ 50/40 amps - I believe the complexity here is the fact that it would have to hard-wired and most homes could not support it in practice - it’s a complex process and normally expensive to bring a 100 amp circuit online

Porsche documents the charging limit for the North American Taycan at 9.6 kW - but I’ve yet to encounter a Taycan that enforces that limit. My personal taycan and a sampling of other 2020/2021 Taycan from friends and acquaintances all charge quite happily at 48 amp when presented a J-1772 11 kW charger (48 amp charge rate w/60 amp breaker) - this makes sense since I do not believe there is even a 9.6 kW On-Board-Charger in the VW/Audi/Porsche supply chain - it would appear porsche is installing the same hardware world wide and does not have a specific 9.6 kW OBC for the North American market (friends eTron also documented with a 9.6 kW charging limit also charges at 11 kW (48 amp) when a bigger charger is presented to it) - Porsche could choose to enforce this limit in software but I would be disappointed if they chose that option since the OBC clearly works fine at 11 kW.

for the North American Market the $1120 PMCC is a tough pill to swallow and given it’s tendancy to overheat and melt it‘s NEMA 14-50 plug it’s not a great choice - it’s also big/heavy and does not have a wide range of NEMA supply cables - basically it’s only features are the Porsche Logo and the Price - there are better higher quality at more reasonable prices for North America.

Yep I mentioned the HomeFlex can accommodate 48/50 A charging for those interested but of course needs a 60A breaker and hardwired installation only. Given that typically the difference (to my understanding) between 40A (50A breaker) charging and 50A (60A breaker) charging is about an addl. 7 miles added per hour (from ca. 30 to 37 mi added per hour), it made little sense to spend on a costly 60A breaker/line install for me - more than happy with 40A home charging with a simple plug in charger.

 

[Sampocketpc]

• 50 amp breaker in the US will support 9.6 kW (40 amp @ 240V) charging
  • US Building codes require you to de-rate the circuit’s breaker rating by 20% for “continuous use” devices like an EVSE (continuous use is defined as device can/will run @ full current for 2 hours or more)
    • so all North American EVSE’s have two specfications - their required breaker rating and the consequential charge rate which is 80% of the stated breaker requirement
    • North American EVSE vendors like to confused customers and some market their charge rate and other’s market the breaker rating - this means no two 40 amp EVSE’s are necessarily the same until you read the fine print (40 amps could be the charge rate meaning a 50 amp breaker, or the breaker size meaning a 32 amp charge rate)
      • adding to the confusion there is no 40 amp breaker plug-type for North America - so plug based 32 amp EVSE (requiring a 40 amp breaker) use a NEMA 14-50/6-50 plug type - confusing the common consumer into not understanding the differences between 32/40 amp EVSE’s since they both use the same type of plug - insert {face-palm} here.
• the next size up is a 60 amp breaker which does 11 kW (48 amps @ 240V) but is has to be hardwired due to US building codes - can not be plug based.
• maximum J-1772 L2 charge rate in North America is 80 amps @ 240 volts - 19.2 kW - requiring a 100 amp breaker and gauge 4/3/2 wire (beefy beefy stuff)
  • most homes in North American have 100/125 amp service for the ENTIRE home’s usage - so adding a 100 amp dedicated circuit for an EVSE is not commonly affordable or easy.

to date to my knowledge Porsche has yet to ship/sell/make-available in North America a Porsche EVSE that supports more than the NEMA 14-50/6-50 plugs - 240v @ 50/40 amps - I believe the complexity here is the fact that it would have to hard-wired and most homes could not support it in practice - it’s a complex process and normally expensive to bring a 100 amp circuit online

Porsche documents the charging limit for the North American Taycan at 9.6 kW - but I’ve yet to encounter a Taycan that enforces that limit. My personal taycan and a sampling of other 2020/2021 Taycan from friends and acquaintances all charge quite happily at 48 amp when presented a J-1772 11 kW charger (48 amp charge rate w/60 amp breaker) - this makes sense since I do not believe there is even a 9.6 kW On-Board-Charger in the VW/Audi/Porsche supply chain - it would appear porsche is installing the same hardware world wide and does not have a specific 9.6 kW OBC for the North American market (friends eTron also documented with a 9.6 kW charging limit also charges at 11 kW (48 amp) when a bigger charger is presented to it) - Porsche could choose to enforce this limit in software but I would be disappointed if they chose that option since the OBC clearly works fine at 11 kW.

for the North American Market the $1120 PMCC is a tough pill to swallow and given it’s tendancy to overheat and melt it‘s NEMA 14-50 plug it’s not a great choice - it’s also big/heavy and does not have a wide range of NEMA supply cables - basically it’s only features are the Porsche Logo and the Price - there are better higher quality at more reasonable prices for North America.

Melts??? I just installed it today- should I be concerned? Any pictures?

Also what is the standard “free” one that comes with it if you didn’t upgrade to the 25ft option.

 

[daveo4EV]

mine has never personally melted - I know people on the forum have returned PMCC units with melted 14-50 plug heads - pictures have been posted - porsche replaced the item with no comment.

Porsche’s only comment to date regarding the temperature issues witih PMCC is that if it’s too hot for your personal comfort to not use it as a 40 amp charger and use the PMCC’s settings to dial the charge rate down to a lower number - people who have done this have reported success in lowering the supply cable temperature - but Porsche markets/sells the PMC+/PMCC as a 40 amp charger - but in some cases recommends you not use it as a 40 amp charger cause they cheaped out on the wire gauge in on a $12 segment of wire for a $1120 EV charger (one of, if not, the most expensive EVSE’s available in the north american market)

running the PMCC in the $600 Porsche Dock enclosure seems to further aggravate the thermal cooling problems - so many people charge their Taycan’s with the dock door propped open to encourge more air flow to cool the PMCC while charging - some have gone as far as to install fans inside the dock enclosure to improve air flow and therefore have better cooling.

all in all I believe this is far from a premium experience from a premium product company who charges an excessive premium price for this particular EV accessory. It is not competitive in price, functionality, features, expectations, mobility, or performance - and for 2020 it was a mandatory option.

it’s worth noting an entire 2nd PMCC (for say a 2nd home) when purchase separate from a vehicle w/25ft cord is over $3200 as a separate purchase - $3,200 for this product is simply mind boggling given the issues we all know and love. To say it is uncompetitive is the understatement of the entire product cycle.

Pure and simple go elsewhere for this accessory particuarly if you’re obtaining a 2nd one for a 2nd home or any place you frequently visit.

excellent 40 amp EV chargers w/25 ft cords that won’t over heat can be had for $500 or less - so the price and quality and performance of the PMCC strikes me as a completely substandard package.

the 2021/2022 Taycan includes a PMC+ charger with a 7 ft or 15ft (don’t remember right now) charging cord - the part that goes from the PMC+ unit to the vehicle - the other cord is called by Porsche a “supply cable” and it’s the part that plugs into the wall socket - the PMC+/PMCC both come with a 120V NEMA 5-15 (household plug) supply cord, and a 50 amp or 30 amp supply cable as specified with your Taycan order (14-50, 6-50, 14-30, 6-30 are the $0 choices at time of ordering the vehicle) - most people opt for the NEMA 14-50 supply cable.

Upgrading the the PMCC is an $1120 option and along with that option you have the choice of a $0 25 charging cord - I believe if you do not choose the $0 25 ft cord option with the PMCC it comes with a 9 ft or 15 ft cable (again details but you get the idea).

for an $1120 budget you can by a 3rd party charger that will be just as effective and will come with a 25 ft cord - and you then also get to keep the included PMC+ charger that comes with the Taycan and it won’t overheat when using it at 40 amps.

it’s ashame the 25 ft cord option currently requires the PMCC option making the 25 ft cord “cost” $1120…

The overheating NEMA 14-50/6-50 supply cable is electrically “safe” and comes with 10 gauge wire - under a full 40 amp charging load for several hours it can get quite warm to the touch (some on the forum say too hot to touch) but the high quality insulation and wire mean that while it’s uncomfortably hot it’s not electrically “unsafe” - it is however a poor choice by porsche and a disappointment on a $1120/$3200 premium EV charger - it would probably be no more than $5 in parts cost to provide an 8 gauge wire supply cable that would behave much better thermally and not get quite so hot under normal use.

many many many owners use the PMC+/PMCC with few if any problems - but for a select few the PMC+/PMCC have been a disappointment and when the issues are investigated it is clear to me there is vast room for improvement in this particular aspect of Porsche’s product line in the EV charging accessories department.

 

[daveo4EV]

this thread is pretty good with some actual data

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/

 

[daveo4EV]

this particular post is also specfically I feel quite good - I’m author however so I’m probably biased…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-5#post-26416

 

[daveo4EV]

and here is the post with Porsche’s official response to the 14-50/6-50 supply cables getting too warm (but not unsafe) during 40 amp charging sessions…

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/nema-14-50-supply-cable-heat-data.1940/page-8#post-27225

Taycan Owner: Dr. it hurts when I charge at 40 amps with the PMC+/PMCC
Porsche Dr.: don’t charge at 40 amps.

 

[whitex]

this information is only supported in newer Taycan’s…and my model-year 2020 Taycan does _NOT_ display battery SOC or VIN or offer “control” over the charging session - this is also true across the VW fleet to date no VW or Audi EV that has plugged into my PMCC has displayed any of this information on my PMCC

now I see where porsche is going with this, and I applaud the “vision“ - more data is better than no-data - but providing this information to a J-1772 EVSE requires every other EV vendor to “upgrade/enhance/adopt” these extra bits of information - so no Chevy/GM EV will ever do this, Polestart, Rivian, LucidAir, Tesla, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Honda etc….

so to date - even other Porsche products don’t support this J-1772 extension and even if they did it’s purely informational

Is it purely informational, or is it part of the plug-and-charge protocol EA is deploying (ISO 15518-2), where car can identify itself to the charging station and report various information including State Of Charge? If the latter, I can see it becoming available on more cars soon.

 

[whitex]

the included EVSE’s from most vehicle manufactures are ok but not great - eventually it will be like included USB smart phone chargers - I need another USB charging adapter like a need a PMCC - eventually most people will have a perfectly functional EVSE from previous purchases and they won’t need “another“ EVSE for their next EV purchase…

I suspect the included EVSE's will simply be sold with the vehicle, like spare-tire-change-jacks and other such accessories. That is what happened when I sold my older EV cars (though once I did sell the new Tesla mobile charger with an older Tesla because I liked the older one better).

 

[whitex]

PMC+ has an ethernet interface only and requires a PLC connection to attach to your router.

I think PLC is getting disabled in the US, because it apparently causes 12V discharge issues and apparently its primary usage is for the Porsche Home Energy Management System which is not available in the US.
https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2021/MC-10186493-0001.pdf

 

[AndiL]

J-1772 and IEC61851 (which are the same with a different name) are the current de-factor charging standards for AC charging with Type-2 connectors. Both do NOT support providing SoC or any other similar feature!

ISO15118-2 is the charging standard used for DC charging with CCS connectors, and that one allows providing SoC and more to the charging station.

Now ISO15118-2 also has additions to support AC charging, but the charger and the EV have to support that both. The PMCC (not the PMC+) and the Taycan do support this is one of the first on the market. The e-tron (and the e-tron GT) also, as well as the electric Smart. VW is going to introduce this to all MEB based EVs as well and their own (maybe only in Europe?) Elli chargers. There are a very limited number of other brands chargers that provide support for ISO15118-2 in their Wallbox (e.g. Juice Technology Me charger). ISO15118-2 is also required for Plug and Charge support both on AC and DC chargers, both need a certificate installed in the car but differ a bit in the implementation and process. For AC a certificate needs to be installed by the EV manufacturer, on DC it is installed at the charging station via supported charging mobility service providers.

Now ISO15118-2 does NOT support providing SoC to the AC connected wallbox as part of the standard, but vendors can add additional vendor specific functionalities to the protocol. Porsche and Audi did this to support providing the SoC to the charging and some additional features like asymetric charging support and more. For these vendor specific features to work, the EV needs to have a certificate installed (from the EV manufacturer) and the charger needs to know and understand the vendor specific additions. Only the 11kW/9.6kW MY2021 Taycan does have such a certificate installed, most likely the MY2022 edition as well. Porsche announce Plug & Charge support for the 22kW/19.2kW MY2022, but this is probably only for DC charging.

Only in the upcoming ISO15118-20 standard (which is not backwards compatible) will be providing SoC (and more) as part of the standard itself.

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