Porsche Take Note: Mercedes has realized fast charging is part of ownership experience

[daveo4EV]

chalk up another "insight" Tesla had early on - leaving the "experience" to an unmotivated "partner" is not the path to success - I'm looking at you VW & EA…

Mercedes is pursuing their own charging network because…

That's the theory, anyway. In practice, patchy availability data, broken chargers, sluggish speeds, and issues with authentication and payment have left the public charging experience deeply underwhelming. That's particularly severe, Schäfer agrees, when you're selling a six-figure EV.

"Yes, we have a great roaming network globally, with one million roaming partners, so it's pretty okay, what we're offering, but it's not really what we think the Mercedes customer should experience," the CTO concedes. "So, we want to give the Mercedes customer the best experience, the best electric car."

https://apple.news/A1RaL6unkSJCe4CtPDMsQNA

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[Fall7St8nd]

It is fascinating to me how seemingly poor the interoperability is between VW Group EV's and Electrify America (EA) charging. The Taycan fortunately now has Plug & Charge (although the "handshake" time still could be improved), which is an expected feature in an EV ownership experience; yet, there are other VW Group EV's that don't even have this feature with EA. Then there's the general concern with EA charging availability...

You're absolutely right that Tesla figured out the need for this end-to-end (car & charging infrastructure) investment early on. In the case of VW and EA... it's incredible that VW owns EA, yet it doesn't seem as if they're collaborating, innovating or putting healthy pressure on each other to improve. Who really knows all of the dynamics behind the scenes, but VW/EA have a real opportunity to improve the end-to-end experience. As a future Taycan owner, I'm looking forward to their (hopeful) improvements.

 

[Archimedes]

Four stops at EA chargers today. Plug and charge worked every time. Charge rates were 134, 115, 95, and 81/40, the last one throttling down due to infrastructure demands, ie the power available to the station had to be spread across all cars there.

Mercs network will supposedly be open to everyone and it will be largely at dealer locations, similar to Porsche. Not sure why it’s so unique. They’re not building a Tesla type of network. Also, IIRC, they’re partnering with Charge Point aren’t they? If so, are they any better than EA?

 

[andrewket]

A charging network based solely, or primarily on dealer locations, will be inadequate.

I’m I think the EA model can work, but they need better management and investment.

 

[Scandinavian]

Mercs network will supposedly be open to everyone and it will be largely at dealer locations, similar to Porsche. Not sure why it’s so unique. They’re not building a Tesla type of network. Also, IIRC, they’re partnering with Charge Point aren’t they? If so, are they any better than EA?

Here is a link to a previous post.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/t...ging-network-starting-in-north-america.14298/

Seems they plan their own maintenance and allocate them along major routes. Not necessarily at Merc dealers! They talk about using ChargePoint HW though, so hopefully that will be better than what EA are using. Any experience of ChargePoint HW???

Sounds like they are addressing this in a serious way, and not just pushing it over the fence.
Well done Mercedes !!!!

 

[simcity]

I do "get it" as I think the SuC network (anywhere in the world) is (or was in its heyday) probably the best part of the Tesla driving/ownership experience. This "one manufacturer built and operated network" concept was perfection in the dawn of EVs - in some ways it was an absolutely necessary ingredient for the success of Tesla, an otherwise untested, unknown upstart clawing to get into the automotive market.

However now that we have all the mainstream auto manufacturers in the EV game proper - I do NOT agree that the 'siloed' proprietary charging network is the most desirable or successful way forward.

Creating lots of (even perfect/excellent performing) single manufacturer-only networks is problematic. Imagine if you could only reliably get petrol/gas from a single brand of garage/gas station.

Insane right?!

What's needed is 100% (tried and tested) interoperability. Pull up and plug in and charge. This concept we have now of special apps, cards, RFID fobs, etc, etc. is total garbage.

We have international auto industry bodies like the American SAE, the German VDA and the Japanese JAMA and JASO - that are still myopically operating in the old' oil burning world' - standardising oil grades, petrol and diesel octane and cetane ratings etc. and crap like that. For fudge sake countries like the UK will stop selling new petrol and diesel cars in a few short years!!!

It's about time those same bodies, woke up, (or were replaced entirely if they're no longer fit for purpose) and stepped up to the leadership plate and help bring about not only standardisation (which we sort of have) but STANDARDS-based (and tested) proper hassle free interoperability and reliability. The two main missing thing with public EV charging worldwide. Should by right up there with safety/NCAP crash ratings - but this time of both cars AND charging networks.

 

[kort]

However now that we have all the mainstream auto manufacturers in the EV game proper - I do NOT agree that the 'siloed' proprietary charging network is the most desirable or successful way forward.

other than tesla's network there aren't any siloed or proprietary networks that I am aware of.
they are all standardized.
In europe other EVs can access the tesla network.

 

[Scandinavian]

Creating lots of (even perfect/excellent performing) single manufacturer-only networks is problematic. Imagine if you could only reliably get petrol/gas from a single brand of garage/gas station.

But the Mercedes Network will be open to all manufacturers according to the press release. Then Mercedes is the one to blame for bad charging experience. Not like it happens now with Porsche. Porsche are on the board of Ionity but still at arms length.

 

[simcity]

But the Mercedes Network will be open to all manufacturers according to the press release. Then Mercedes is the one to blame for bad charging experience. Not like it happens now with Porsche. Porsche are on the board of Ionity but still at arms length.

Yep that's the point I was making in the latter part of my post - true EV charging interoperability and reliability needs across the board standard and testing. The same thing we have the past hundred years for oil, fuel, tyres, etc etc.

 

[dflohr]

Porsche did make a similar announcement earlier in 2022 initially for Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Not sure it went or is going anywhere.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/18/porsche-builds-ev-charging-network/

 

[Scandinavian]

Porsche did make a similar announcement earlier in 2022 initially for Germany, Austria and Switzerland. Not sure it went or is going anywhere.

https://techcrunch.com/2022/03/18/porsche-builds-ev-charging-network/

Have not heard anything since that release.

But Blume seems to make these loose statements.

During the VW Power Day or whatever it was named he stood and explained that it was now possible to drive on the Ionity network from Spitsbergen to Rome!! Check that one out on Google maps.

In the release he stated:

“”Blume said it was too soon to provide figures on the number of stations Porsche plans to build, a timeline for their arrival, or their cost. However, his comments did suggest the company was eager to invest in the project.””

 

[Mr.Smith]

IMO these are all marketing/PR ploys that will never come to fruition at scale.

Audi did this as well

Normal charging stations cost at least $1m just to start, forget all the maintenance etc.
They are a money loser even for Tesla.
BTW in California I'm seeing a lot of Telsas at EA stations because it's cheaper than their beloved Supercharger network.

In the US the only reason any company would build a charging station is to grab the subsidy money.

When EA works it's very impressive

 

[Archimedes]

But the Mercedes Network will be open to all manufacturers according to the press release. Then Mercedes is the one to blame for bad charging experience. Not like it happens now with Porsche. Porsche are on the board of Ionity but still at arms length.

How is this much if any different from EA. Merc is partnering with Chargepoint and another company. Merc will ‘own’ it like VW owns EA. And ChargePoint reliability is apparently no better than EA based on the studies out there. I’m all for more chargers, but this seems like a lot of marketing spin on top of existing ideas.

 

[Hirschaj]

I don’t care who owns them and is responsible for them. As long as we get more charging stations and they are reasonably reliable that will make me happy. If multiple companies are working on this at the same time we will have more charging options faster.

 

[jvincent]

The last thing we need is another network operator. Right now, EA is the only road forward and every other network just a distraction. EVgo and ChargePoint have been floundering for years. Nobody cares!

All resources need to go to one regulated provider. Unfortunately, EA is best positioned to be that entity. Once we're past the buildout phase for CCS, Mercedes, Rivian, et al can "boutique" to their heart's content. If your network doesn't support (or doesn't plan to support) interstate transportation along the main travel corridors, you're not a player.

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