daveo4EV

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Are you saying these systems wouldn’t work
these systems may or may not work fine as “stand alone” isolated power supplies - like honda generator - you fire up the generator and plug in your devices - that works great!!! But that is not providing power to your HOME - it’s somehting you have in your home that you can move devices to it so they can get power.

that’s a different solution than plugging your vehicle into your garage charger, having a black out where the power grid is offline (like texas and california) and then having the vehicle start “feeding” power to your entire home…and matching it’s power demands

if you want your Taycan in your garage to power your home while it’s plugged into the PMCC - YOU must redesign your home’s electrical system to safely allow that to happen…and then you must have a computer that can trigger the auto-disconnect, and talk to the charger/vehicle to start the electrons flowing from the vehicle to the home - all of this needs to be integrated and supported by the manufactuer…it’s all technically feasible, but there are few (if any) working examples in production in actual customer’s hands…

and “intentions” arent’ worth the paper they are not written on - because there are actual logistics to making this happen - otherwise we’d already have it cause Nissan wanted to do this in 2012 with the Leaf…

now if you’re saying my vehcile has an AC outlet and I can plug my laptop into it’s AC outlet and charge my it from the vehicle’s battery - yeah ok that’s a nice feature - but not exactly “vehicle to home” power backup now is it?





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powderpc

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Also, Porsche is likely to be spun off from VW and highly likely to continue investing in more technology, aka software-oriented product development which they know very well could be their future revenue base (aka subscription model) with EVs likely having much longer usable lifespans. It doesn’t seem outlandish to think that this is an obvious thing for them to do despite your sarcasm. With clean energy well established as a crossover growth area and Lucid and Hyundai featuring the obvious multifunctional benefits of EVs and Tesla thinking about running autonomous taxi networks with idle personal vehicles, I doubt Porsche is planning to continue down the same path as every other traditional auto maker. Everyone is getting disrupted and some companies will get left behind because we obviously don’t need this many car companies.

Also, did you know Porsche already has a product called the “Porsche Home Energy Manager?” I think there’s a pretty good chance they are already working on having EVs tie into the home’s power. Especially with Germany so reliant on intermittent green energy, this is a welcome development for their native use case since it might allow a “smart” grid to balance load based on available stored energy known from connected vehicle data. https://files.porsche.com/filestore...e-Home-Energy-Manager-Installation-Manual.pdf
 

daveo4EV

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yeah - wake me up when someone’s actually powered their home with the vehicle…I estimate 5 years from now

Tesla will introduce that “feature/service” in 2022 - everyone else will be 2026 or later…

and again intentions and marketing documents are a long ways from it actually working in your home...

I’d have more confidence if the sales/people and dealer network even knew how fast a taycan can charge in north america - hint: it’s 11 kW not 9.6 - and knew that you can’t charge an EV overnight from a normal home socket for more than 5% battery - or any number of confused and factually incorrect statements that dealers have told many on this forum while purchasing their vehicles...

I’m also not going to trust Porsche to power my home or that they are actually interested in the software and testing to do so, and the support required when they can’t even keep the Taycan’s 12V battery from dying while it’s plugged into a 9.6 kW power source…oh and they have yet to do a single OTA update - the 12V problems have been know for almost year now - and zero, zip, nada, zilch, no software update and we all still own Taycan’s that can and will let the 12V battery go dead while there are dual sources available that can keep it topped off (the main battery and external powersource)

and you’re going to trust Porsche to install a whole home power system in your residential home built in 1977 when they can’t even tell you that if you order the 19.2 kW charging option for your Taycan you need more than a 50 NEMA 14-50 to actually charge at that rate...and that you’ll nedd a 100 amp breaker and an unreleased in north america 22 kW version of the PMCC? Most homes in the US‘s entire power feed from teh grid is 100 amps for the ENTIRE home.

I understand the potential, I understand the promises - I know what can be accomplished - i’ve been successfully employee at a leading technical company for 30 years…

idea’s and promises are easy and cheap…

actual products that work and can survive with the average consumer are very very hard - and so far I’ve not seen an actual example of this working, or even a suggested schedule as to when someone could install it in my home...

wake me up where there is pricing, part/model numbers, an order date, and the company documents which model year vehicle will support this…until then it’s all vaporware and empty promises.
 

powderpc

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I think you discount the market for this too much. Spending $10k as part of a solar install to provide the kind of integration that you refer to doesn’t seem like a large cost relative to your average home backup generator install. With tax incentives that part of the “package” would be discounted as well. And with economies of scale in new construction this cost could be much smaller for future homes/buildings. Imagine an apartment building or an office that taps into plugged in EVs for backup power.

We’re already seeing developers putting in standard EV chargers, solar, smart home features etc. in new construction. It seems like having the proper technical specifications as you suggest to allow a vehicle to power the home isn’t really that far off. With Teslas so ubiquitous the demand is already there for preinstalled EV home charging. It’s only a matter of time before users demand more from their very expensive depreciating battery packs. One of the “stealth” features of an EV is that you can use the battery all you want and it won’t show up on the odometer in the form of “depreciation” and with million mile+ battery packs there will be legitimate demand for flexible utilization of this energy.
 

daveo4EV

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and the dates and product number for these feature are? building code specifications for the cut off switch?

you are arguing what is possible - I’m arguing it’s been possible for years and still hasn’t happend - and to date EVERY HOME BUILT TO DATE - does not have this ability!

so new homes from some mythical date in the future can do this, and every home built prior to that date can’t - and 10,000 is a lot of money - there was a huge outcry in califfornia when it became a requirement to include 6 solar panels on new construction adding a cost of $2000 to the average home…

again tell me the cost, parts, and equipment required to seamlessly power my home with a Lucid Air - go on I’ll wait - and what the install date will be - and the retrofit cost for my 1988 built townhome with under ground electrical service that can’t be upgraded…go on get me the quote - I’ll wait.
 

daveo4EV

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also while you’re at it - please contact Porsche North America and ask them when they will be supporting vehicle to home power with the Taycan (bi-directional charging) - and what model year’s it will be supported on...

and while you’ve got them on the phone please ask them when the 2020 Taycan will support wireless car play…and plug and charge from EA

I think you’ll get the same answer for all of those questions.
 

powderpc

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One thing you have to acknowledge is that the traditional dealer model of selling and servicing vehicles is dying. Mercedes and many others have already begun an aggressive shift from retail to e-commerce/digital. Tesla is way ahead in this regard but the market is already catching up at varying rates depending on where you live and the obvious benefit to EVs is a minimal degree of service required. The change in the sales model will have a large impact on how consumers educate themselves and consume “options”. Just because dealers are useless you shouldn’t expect them to stick around and continue to be useless in the future. Of course these things could take years to play out but development often becomes compressed out of need as you saw with covid and the acceleration of WFH as a trend. I know that Porsche and others already see the need to invest more aggressively in their digital product development. Even Ferrari is pushing that trend and simultaneously a move towards mass production. With VW likely to make Porsche public ASAP to cash in on a minimum $15-$20 B for a 25% stake in the current market that’s a lot of future development getting compressed into a shorter span of time.
 

daveo4EV

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Porsche Taycan - we can’t keep the 12V battery in your Taycan alive or release software to fix it - but trust us to power your home during a winter black out

yeah that’s our focus - writing software for our cars to power your home and comply with the 10’s of thousands of power grid interconnect regulations world wide…that are changing on a quarterly basis…yeah that’s our focus and our passion - tracking local regional power grid interconnect regulation changes and quickly releaseing the software changes required to keep our vehicle to home power feature compliant with local juristictions…

here is TEsla’s release history for Powerwall - note the number of updates historically to keep them compliant with local grid interconnect regulation changes…

https://www.tesla.com/support/energy/powerwall/mobile-app/software-updates
 

powderpc

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You’re assuming that because a company can’t do one thing right they won’t do other things right. This is a fallacy. Google can do many amazing things yet they cannot do some very basic stupid things just like you say with the Taycan. Yet I’ll bet Porsche is a bit more responsive than Google when it comes to hearing their customers.
 

daveo4EV

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wow you’ve come straight from Tesla forums haven’t you?
 

daveo4EV

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I trust that disruption rarely happens in the established beasts - Porsche/VW will be out manuvered - but we’re still at least a decade away from vehicle to home power being a common feature widely deployed with standards for integration…

right now it’s marketing fluff…
 

powderpc

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Also, just look for a sec at Rich Rebuilds as a prototype. You can do whatever you want if you can hack it. And someone will. Don’t count on Porsche as the only participant in this space.
 

daveo4EV

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but you’re on a Porsche forum - we talk about what Porsche is doing - there are other forums for EV fantasy outcomes that are unlikley in the near future.

How does this affect the Taycan or the upcoming Macan EV?
 

powderpc

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EVs alone are a long way from mass adoption. You could argue vehicle ownership is becoming more and more obsolete. I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but for some, this should be technically feasible. Nobody is saying it will be a universal thing just like EVs are still a niche product.
 

powderpc

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but you’re on a Porsche forum - we talk about what Porsche is doing - there are other forums for EV fantasy outcomes that are unlikley in the near future.

How does this affect the Taycan or the upcoming Macan EV?
I never said this was a Porsche thing. You made it sound technically impossible so I’m just asking the questions.
 

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