[opinion] - hmmm…VW/Audi/Porsche may be in trouble…

[jk981]

Let's hope they take the interior space/interior packaging from lucid, since its still the best on the market.
It still boggles my mind that the taycan has less interior space than a panamera...

I hope they don’t, the lucid looks like a jellybean and the taycan looks like a proper sports car because of the compromise in packaging

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[Sar]

I don't know why, but this car looks to me like a cross of Taycan and Lucid Air .

I was thinking it looked like an ioniq 5 crossed with a lucid. I don't see a single thing that looks like the Taycan - and it's perfectly fine if you do, but I am curious what you're seeing so I can understand your pov.

 

[69Mach390]

I was thinking it looked like an ioniq 5 crossed with a lucid. I don't see a single thing that looks like the Taycan - and it's perfectly fine if you do, but I am curious what you're seeing so I can understand your pov.

Yeah, I see zero Porsche influence in that model.

Their 001 looks like a Macan. But that particular one, the 7GT? Zero sports car influence IMO.
Zeekr 7GT:

Looks more like a Toyota to me.

Toyota BZ:

 

[whitex]

I once tried talking my parents out of taking delivery of their brand new pre DOGE Trump Model X when there was waitlist at the time. Long story short. They ended up selling after three months.

Model X sucks. I originally was on the waitlist, then bought a Model S to hold me over. Bought 3 more Model S'es after that, looked at Model X before each of those, me or my wife never liked it - the doors were just a disaster, not even when test driving one in 2023 did they work correctly. Model S also got cheap in quality (our last was 2018, had real leather, etc). After driving 2 Model S'es which my wife loved, she really wanted to like the 2023 Model X or Model S but couldn't - the cheap quality of materials, the stupid yoke (or rounded yoke, still no stalks), and Model X doors, still malfunctioned even just on our test drive. It rains around Seattle, and nobody wants to wait to get into a car while the doors are "thinking about what to do" opening at crawling speed, or getting stuck and requiring a close/open cycle again while the rain is pouring on one's head.

On the other hand, my elderly parents hate new things, but after watching me drive EVs for years, they picked up a Model Y a couple of years ago. Today, they would not go back to other cars (they were a fan of Toyotas for many years, had a RAV4 immediately prior to Model Y). If they need another car, I'm pretty sure it will be another Y. The only thing they are missing is a front bumper camera, but the new Y already has one.

 

[whitex]

I was thinking it looked like an ioniq 5 crossed with a lucid. I don't see a single thing that looks like the Taycan - and it's perfectly fine if you do, but I am curious what you're seeing so I can understand your pov.

To me at least, the rear looks much more like a Lucidized Taycan CT, than an Ionic 5

The front also looks more like Lucid than an Ionic 5

Looking at both, for example the lights are light bars, or lines. Ionic 5 seems all about rectangular outlines.

I've never seen a Zeekr in person though, so just going off of pictures.

 

[Scandinavian]

Let's hope they take the interior space/interior packaging from lucid, since its still the best on the market.
It still boggles my mind that the taycan has less interior space than a panamera...

I think you will be surprised when you see the Zeekr 7GT in real life.

We got a Zeekr 7X for family use at our other home in the summer. We used it quite a lot and coverd about 5000 km in 10 days before we left. The 7X is the SUV version, while the 7GT is a ”shooting brake” version.

We wanted to get more like a SUV type of a car, partly for my wife’s mobility issues, but also due to space and luggage volumes. We often need to haul large items and a lot to and from our summer ”residence”. Matrreses, duvets, equipment, etc.

I looked at BMW i5 Touring, BMW ix, Porsche Macan EV, Smart, Mercedes EQE, Lotus EV. We wanted an EV since the streets around us are not allowing any ICE cars, which would complicate transport.

I happened to see another guy looking through a Macan EV and then again met him by chance at the Zeekr showroom. We both were absolutely stunned at the build quality and standard equipment in the Zeekr 7X. Ventilated, heated massage seats, enormous leg room in the back seats, leather interior, sunshade that opens and closes all the Panoramic roof, fantastic head up display, tons of luggage space, very comfortable rear seats, good sound equipment. Electrical doors etc etc. Atosteer and navigation is superb compared to the Taycan. Charging is superfast with maxing out a 400 kW charger. 10 -80% in under 16 minutes! And the whole package at half the price of a Macan!! Oh and 5 years of warranty as standard, that is extended to 10 years if you service the car at 2 years interval or mileage. 10 years warranty !

The ride and road comfort is very good , but I have to admit that the Porsche EV’s are a notch better. But that was the only aspect we’re we scored the Porsche or BMW higher than the Zeekr. With the maximum speed limit at mostly 110 km/h, it felt academic.

Since August the car has received 2 OTA updates that have improved it even further. Since Zeekr is a challenger on the market, they actually listen to feedback from owners and respond by developing software for it. This is designed by Zeekr in Gothenburg, Sweden, and it’s rezponded to and implemented at a rapid pace. Very transparent response from the development team, unlike a brand we all know.

So all I can say: go and check out these models when you have a chance. The Germans will need to up their game and become much more price competitive. So far we have not found anything that has disappointed us with the Zeekr.

Some pictures of the car we had as a test car for 2 days beside our Taycan and some other pictures.

 

[69Mach390]

I think you will be surprised when you see the Zeekr 7GT in real life.

We got a Zeekr 7X for family use at our other home in the summer. We used it quite a lot and coverd about 5000 km in 10 days before we left. The 7X is the SUV version, while the 7GT is a ”shooting brake” version.

We wanted to get more like a SUV type of a car, partly for my wife’s mobility issues, but also due to space and luggage volumes. We often need to haul large items and a lot to and from our summer ”residence”. Matrreses, duvets, equipment, etc.

I looked at BMW i5 Touring, BMW ix, Porsche Macan EV, Smart, Mercedes EQE, Lotus EV. We wanted an EV since the streets around us are not allowing any ICE cars, which would complicate transport.

I happened to see another guy looking through a Macan EV and then again met him by chance at the Zeekr showroom. We both were absolutely stunned at the build quality and standard equipment in the Zeekr 7X. Ventilated, heated massage seats, enormous leg room in the back seats, leather interior, sunshade that opens and closes all the Panoramic roof, fantastic head up display, tons of luggage space, very comfortable rear seats, good sound equipment. Electrical doors etc etc. Atosteer and navigation is superb compared to the Taycan. Charging is superfast with maxing out a 400 kW charger. 10 -80% in under 16 minutes! And the whole package at half the price of a Macan!! Oh and 5 years of warranty as standard, that is extended to 10 years if you service the car at 2 years interval or mileage. 10 years warranty !

The ride and road comfort is very good , but I have to admit that the Porsche EV’s are a notch better. But that was the only aspect we’re we scored the Porsche or BMW higher than the Zeekr. With the maximum speed limit at mostly 110 km/h, it felt academic.

Since August the car has received 2 OTA updates that have improved it even further. Since Zeekr is a challenger on the market, they actually listen to feedback from owners and respond by developing software for it. This is designed by Zeekr in Gothenburg, Sweden, and it’s rezponded to and implemented at a rapid pace. Very transparent response from the development team, unlike a brand we all know.

So all I can say: go and check out these models when you have a chance. The Germans will need to up their game and become much more price competitive. So far we have not found anything that has disappointed us with the Zeekr.

Some pictures of the car we had as a test car for 2 days beside our Taycan and some other pictures.

When was a Porsche “price competitive?”

They’re playing in a different market (outside of their SUVs).

Zeekr is competing with Hyundai, not Porsche.

 

[chun]

When was a Porsche “price competitive?”

They’re playing in a different market (outside of their SUVs).

Zeekr is competing with Hyundai, not Porsche.

Macan, cayenne, panamera used to be price competitive.

While a bit more expensive than BMW and Audi, you would get the prestige/badge, extendable warranty, etc.

But now they are not a bit more expensive, they are 2x the price And a badge is not worth 2x the price, especially not when underneath it's a worse product many time.

Hell; 911 used to be the sport car for the middle class. Not anymore. Most engineers can't afford a 911, neither can most doctors. And I don't mean engineers in their 80s, i mean engineers below the age of 40.

Porsche was price competitive, when compared to the rest of the market. The difference in price between a 911 and a Ferrari used to be 300-400k; not 30k.

 

[jk981]

Regular non-GT/turbo 911 prices have gone insane, I had no idea they increased 50k (usd) over the past few years. They used to be perfectly situated between Audi/bmw/MB and the “exotics” like Ferrari/lamborghini.

now the base price is absurd, and you still have to pay for features that come standard on 30k Hondas and Toyotas.

 

[69Mach390]

Macan, cayenne, panamera used to be price competitive.

While a bit more expensive than BMW and Audi, you would get the prestige/badge, extendable warranty, etc.

But now they are not a bit more expensive, they are 2x the price And a badge is not worth 2x the price, especially not when underneath it's a worse product many time.

Hell; 911 used to be the sport car for the middle class. Not anymore. Most engineers can't afford a 911, neither can most doctors. And I don't mean engineers in their 80s, i mean engineers below the age of 40.

Porsche was price competitive, when compared to the rest of the market. The difference in price between a 911 and a Ferrari used to be 300-400k; not 30k.

Price competitive with luxury brands maybe.

Not with Chinese cars. Those aren’t the direct competitors (except maybe in China).

I do agree Porsche could do some price squeezing, but comparing a sports car to a $30k Chinese hatchback is silly.

 

[69Mach390]

Regular non-GT/turbo 911 prices have gone insane, I had no idea they increased 50k (usd) over the past few years. They used to be perfectly situated between Audi/bmw/MB and the “exotics” like Ferrari/lamborghini.

now the base price is absurd, and you still have to pay for features that come standard on 30k Hondas and Toyotas.

To be fair, price increases on every new car post Covid have been significant.

Just for fun I tried loading up a build on a 2025 Chevy Tahoe (it won’t let you build a 2026 yet).

Over $100,000 even after discounts!

If you look at the MSRP % increase for Porsche recently, I would bet it’s not much different than the rest of the industry.

From a quick search- 2020-2025 Surge: The entry-level 911 went from around $98,750 in 2020 to about $122,950 for the 2025 model

So that’s about a 25% increase.


Percentage Increase: Average new car prices rose by approximately 27% to 30% from 2020 to mid-2025, according to various sources.

So that’s means the 911 actually rose by LESS than the rest of the market.

 

[jk981]

Good lord who is paying 100k for a Tahoe?

I guess I haven’t really been paying attention to car prices until recently (and certainly not the domestic truck market). Maybe 130-150k for a taycan is a deal after all.

 

[tigerbalm]

Lotus EV.

You really were willing to be adventurous or at least fully explore the market!

 

[69Mach390]

Good lord who is paying 100k for a Tahoe?

I guess I haven’t really been paying attention to car prices until recently (and certainly not the domestic truck market). Maybe 130-150k for a taycan is a deal after all.

Didn’t claim it was a deal. I think MSRP’s are all inflated right now.

It’s a result of manufacturers underpricing cars during the COVID shortage. Then they overpriced them, and now we are back to the HUGE discounts again.

$10-20k off MSRP on these higher dollar cars is pretty commonplace.

 

[chun]

Price competitive with luxury brands maybe.

Not with Chinese cars. Those aren’t the direct competitors (except maybe in China).

I do agree Porsche could do some price squeezing, but comparing a sports car to a $30k Chinese hatchback is silly.

I can compare a porsche to a 30k car from a phone maker, and shockingly, the car from the phone maker thrashed the porsche around the track

Chinese car will demolish porsche in europe if they don't get their act together by next year

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