Radar / Laser Detectors with Sound Thermally Insulated Glass

ron_b

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With the amount of interest in posts on the @artdept thread on "Taycan / Porsche must have accessories?" related to Radar & Laster Detectors with the Sound and Thermally Insulated glass both prompted me to create a thread specific to this topic and investigate further by reaching out to "Rocky Mountain Radar" in El Paso TX. They promptly returned a response.

Unfortunately the glass will reduce the performance of the detector for both laser and radar significantly.
Yes the forward detection will work but at a very reduced range.
So if such a detector is a key element to your vehicle you may want to refrain from the Sound & Thermally Insulated Glass option.
Note that with the glass there are two locations to use devices like Toll devices next to the rear view mirror but it is a narrow area.

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Thanks for the dedicated thread. This topic has gotten more more challenging in recent years.
I just gave up on trying to get one of our V1's to work in the wife's S class Benz. :( .
 

Vim Schrotnock

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I'm getting the Escort Max CI 360 because it is very highly rated as both a detector and jammer, it can be installed easily by my Porsche dealer and is quite discreet, and of course their HQ is just a couple miles down the road. I would highly recommend..
 

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I'm looking into Radenso's new Theia system. Hopefully they'll also offer a custom install option as well.
 

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I took the time to actually measure the radar transmission quality of the thermal glass in my dealer's demo Taycan Turbo using a portable radar source and an Agilent microwave power meter.

On K-band, the effect was a loss of 23 dB (200:1). Pretty terrible for radar reception. I expect X-band and Ka-band to be similar.

Too bad that Porsche didn't use AGP as their glass vendor like Tesla switched to in the AP2-hardware update. It uses ceramic technology that has no effect on RF telematics (radar, EZ-Pass, cell phones, etc.) while providing equivalent solar rejection to the metal-film competitors.

One might get away with positioning a detector very high and tight to the rearview mirror on the driver's side where the film cut-out is placed. I experimented with positioning a V1 and the radar antenna was masked by the black dot pattern (OK for radar) with a clear spot in just the right place to not block the laser sensor. Radar antenna positioned in the film cutout and laser clear of the black masking. Might be worth a try.

I had some conversations with the Porsche tech center in Atlanta that indicated the rear window did not have any metal film because they were using the defroster wire pattern to receive radio stations in a similar way to the Panamera hatch glass.

The side windows also have metallic film that might make direction finding with a V1 a little spooky by blocking signals coming from the side of the car, but might work just fine with only the rear window receiving signals aft of center.

My Taycan Turbo won't have the insulated glass, so I'm not motivated to experiment much further.
 

lay3r3

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Thank you, @ron_b for starting this thread. About to pickup my Turbo with insulated glass. I’ve gone ahead and ordered a Radenso Pro-M for now as my other car has a fully integrated/built-in setup and I’ll be flying blind with the Taycan till I can get it scheduled for install.

Radenso is about the best available for filtering and detection of multaradar but it’s not the best on range so it’s going to be a gamble with any loss on the windshield. I’m hoping the tiny size (much smaller than a Uniden R7) will help make sure it works in the cutouts. For me it’s temporary but for those who are going to do a windshield mount I’d suggest a Uniden R7.

my permanent solution will be radar and laser and since laser has to built in I’ll do radar at the same time which solves the windshield issue as the radar sensor goes behind the bumper.

Friendly reminder, laser detectors only tell you your busted. You don’t have reaction time from a laser detection alert so don’t worry about windshield mounted laser options being impacted by the glass. Doesn’t help anyway.
 

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I'm interested to hear if you can get your Uniden or Radenso to work in the small cut out on the thermal glass. I mounted my max 360C up high with custom mount and it seems like the range is much less. It is angled slightly upwards. I just had the RC M custom install with laser jammers on a Cayenne and it seems to work great, probably will go that direction on Taycan if no good solutions though the small cut out space work out.
 

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I took the time to actually measure the radar transmission quality of the thermal glass in my dealer's demo Taycan Turbo using a portable radar source and an Agilent microwave power meter.

On K-band, the effect was a loss of 23 dB (200:1). Pretty terrible for radar reception. I expect X-band and Ka-band to be similar.

Too bad that Porsche didn't use AGP as their glass vendor like Tesla switched to in the AP2-hardware update. It uses ceramic technology that has no effect on RF telematics (radar, EZ-Pass, cell phones, etc.) while providing equivalent solar rejection to the metal-film competitors.

One might get away with positioning a detector very high and tight to the rearview mirror on the driver's side where the film cut-out is placed. I experimented with positioning a V1 and the radar antenna was masked by the black dot pattern (OK for radar) with a clear spot in just the right place to not block the laser sensor. Radar antenna positioned in the film cutout and laser clear of the black masking. Might be worth a try.

I had some conversations with the Porsche tech center in Atlanta that indicated the rear window did not have any metal film because they were using the defroster wire pattern to receive radio stations in a similar way to the Panamera hatch glass.

The side windows also have metallic film that might make direction finding with a V1 a little spooky by blocking signals coming from the side of the car, but might work just fine with only the rear window receiving signals aft of center.

My Taycan Turbo won't have the insulated glass, so I'm not motivated to experiment much further.
Mike,
I don't understand how to position the Gen2 V1 high and tight. Would you mount it high on drivers side with majority of radar behind black dots and slightly to the drivers side? Suction cup mount or other permanent mount to keep it high. I like the thin design, and if I could get good forward protection that would save me a full custom install.
Thanks
 

Mike V

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Mike,
I don't understand how to position the Gen2 V1 high and tight. Would you mount it high on drivers side with majority of radar behind black dots and slightly to the drivers side? Suction cup mount or other permanent mount to keep it high. I like the thin design, and if I could get good forward protection that would save me a full custom install.
Thanks
Driver's side as high and tight to the windshield as possible. Needs the V1Gen2 forward facing antenna lens bulge to align with the pretty obvious (from outside) film cut-out area.

The suction mount may barely work with the small cups that are already installed on the mount. A 3rd-party sticky-tape permanent mount that uses the frame of the suction mount might allow more "tightness" flexibility.

The cutout in the metal film is higher than it is wide, so it should be plenty possible to get the detector level and find an arrangement that "sees" through it. You'll have to do some imagining to determine where the right spot is because one can't see through all the obscuration perfectly.
 
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Is this a problem even if you don't choose the option? Under standard features it says "Thermally insulated glass all-round".
 

lay3r3

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Good question.
For what it's worth, I have premium package which includes thermal glass but I can't see anything visual on the windshield. I bought a Rodenso Pro-M to use till I get a built-in system and haven't seen any cops to really know if it even works! I'm going to try to compare a speed sign that gives me two beeps by driving by in my wife's car. Not sure it'll be any different or not.
 
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ron_b

ron_b

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For what it's worth, I have premium package which includes thermal glass but I can't see anything visual on the windshield. I bought a Rodenso Pro-M to use till I get a built-in system and haven't seen any cops to really know if it even works! I'm going to try to compare a speed sign that gives me two beeps by driving by in my wife's car. Not sure it'll be any different or not.
The thermally and sound insulated glass and is not part of the premium package. Just the base thermal glass. The double pane side windows is part of the thermal and sound insulated glass option.
Correction -- I am correct for the 4S but Turbo & Turbo S includes the Upgraded Glass as part of the Premium Package.
 
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lay3r3

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The thermally and sound insulated glass and is not part of the premium package. Just the base thermal glass. The double pane side windows is part of the thermal and sound insulated glass option.
Not sure I understand what you're talking about. Included in the premium package is "Thermally and sound insulated glass" and there is no other option I see for a different variation of Thermally and sound insulated glass. When you select the Premium Package, the one option on the list gets auto selected.

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With the amount of interest in posts on the @artdept thread on "Taycan / Porsche must have accessories?" related to Radar & Laster Detectors with the Sound and Thermally Insulated glass both prompted me to create a thread specific to this topic and investigate further by reaching out to "Rocky Mountain Radar" in El Paso TX. They promptly returned a response.



So if such a detector is a key element to your vehicle you may want to refrain from the Sound & Thermally Insulated Glass option.
Note that with the glass there are two locations to use devices like Toll devices next to the rear view mirror but it is a narrow area.

1583431553149.png
As other folks have said the glass does create issues, my dealer installed a K40 (Radar and Laser), very neat installation, two detectors hidden under the front scope and a special license plate holder.
 



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