Scared to ask... anyone tempted by Model S Plaid?

schad

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what concrete advantage does the Taycan hold over the competition that one can actually point to and measure because it’s 800V? And how does the customer benefit?
The concrete advantage is the power output, charge rate, battery thermal management, and efficiency. There's no other widely-available non-Tesla EV that comes close to the Taycan in all four categories, and there are a lot that don't come close in any of them.

It's harder to compare with Tesla because Tesla had literally a ten-year head start. My suspicion is that the 800V architecture papers over a lot of inefficiencies elsewhere in the car. As those inefficiencies are engineered out of future generations, we'll start to see more concrete advantages over Tesla.
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JimBob

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Porsche did not get it wrong. It got there first so had to design and build a whole bunch of new stuff. Right out of the box, it was at least as competitive and often better than anything that was out there.

But time moves on. The comparison is not with old Tesla's. It's with the new stuff. A Porsche buyer right now can cross shop all these new cars with newer technology.

Porsche has a long history of continuous improvement. Just don't know when the the next version comes out. Not likely MY2022, maybe MY2023? I doubt they can afford to go much beyond this without a new version.

Bottom line is if you value driver experience above all else, Porsche is still the best of the new crop.
 

daveo4EV

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The concrete advantage is the power output, charge rate, battery thermal management, and efficiency. There's no other widely-available non-Tesla EV that comes close to the Taycan in all four categories, and there are a lot that don't come close in any of them.

It's harder to compare with Tesla because Tesla had literally a ten-year head start. My suspicion is that the 800V architecture papers over a lot of inefficiencies elsewhere in the car. As those inefficiencies are engineered out of future generations, we'll start to see more concrete advantages over Tesla.
marketing buzz words - no actual advantage you can point to and compare and say “see it’s better” - battery thermals i’m not seeing it
 

schad

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Not buzzwords. Excluding Tesla and EVs that aren't widely available yet, show me an EV that's as good as the Taycan in all four of the areas I mentioned (power output, charge rate, battery thermals, and efficiency). If you don't like battery thermals, throw it out and just look at the other three. It won't change the result.
 

daveo4EV

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in what way are the battery thermals on Taycan better?
power output?
efficiency?
charge rate?

it’s about equal in all areas but it’s 800V so it should be better.
 

Windpower

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no actual advantage you can point to and compare and say “see it’s better”
I understand that its tough to see benefits today from a higher battery voltage due to the limitations in the 800v charging infrastructure.

But ...
800v is inherently more efficient than 400v just as
240v is inherently more efficient than 120v
In both cases, you get double the power from the same gauge wire: if you keep the wire gauge the same, double the voltage and you will double the power. If you want to use the lower voltage, then you need to increase the wire size to get the same power.

That's why level 2 EVSE's use 240v: you get double the power with the same gauge wire (in the US, 12 and 14 gauge house wire is rated from 120v to 600v giving the potential of a 5:1 power range with the same wire).

So while today you might find it hard to see any difference between 800v and 400v, in fact there is a difference. With all else the same (wire size, charging infrastructure, availability of chargers when you need them), 800v has twice the power as 400v so you should be able to charge and regenerate at twice the rate.

Last, and I know I'm beating a dead horse, its possible that the Taycan engineers needed 800v just to be able to support the power needed for the (very) heavy Taycan. Its possible that a 400v system would have required wire sizes or extended charge times which would have been problematic.
 

NC_Taycan

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Weight is the Taycan's biggest drawback. But let's say Porsche over-engineered many aspects of the car (though clearly not battery cooling). Are the suspension components beefier than they need to be? After 7000 miles and 6 track days my alignment is off from dead center by less than the margin of error for the alignment rack. Noise control? Frame? Brake discs? HV battery cell isolation (to prevent short-circuits that cause fires in the event of a severe collision)? Hopefully as they refine the platform for Mission R, the weight comes out. You then need less beefier suspension, brakes, less battery, and that means even more weight comes out. Rinse. Repeat. Tesla has a 10 year advantage on this flywheel, and MS Plaid is 'only' 400 lbs lighter than a Taycan Turbo. Does that imply it's hard or that it's not been a priority...
 

Kayone73

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Every YouTube road test review of the Plaid further convinces me that as cool as is sounds, the Model S Plaid is just not a car i'm interested in. Plus aside from the rather meaningless bragging rights of the 2 sec 0-60 (which takes 8-15 min of prep time BTW) the new Model S LR AWD is a far better more useful buy and much better value as well.

Either way, pretty much every Plaid review out there that this car is not really well set up for driving enthusiasts. Great for cruising in luxury and going ridiculously fast in a straight line, sure.
 

Jhenson29

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weight savings - I’m not sure - given the Taycan weighs slightly more than my 2014 Model S P85D (which had better usable range than my Taycan)
I replaced my 14-way seats in a Taycan with LWB and it still weighs more than a Tesla! Therefore, LWB do not offer a weight savings over 14-way. At least none I can see.

Q.E.D. 🤣

🙄
 

John89

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I replaced my 14-way seats in a Taycan with LWB and it still weighs more than a Tesla! Therefore, LWB do not offer a weight savings over 14-way. At least none I can see.

Q.E.D. 🤣

🙄
EQS is 5885 pounds and gets 350-400 miles of REAL range. And its made by a legacy manufacturer
 

Jhenson29

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EQS is 5885 pounds and gets 350-400 miles of REAL range. And its made by a legacy manufacturer
…okay. Not sure what you’re telling me for?
 

Jhenson29

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Because I felt like it. And you were talking about "weight"
…okay. But my comment was pointing out how ridiculous it is to compare the weight of two different cars when commenting on whether or not a specific item has any weight savings on a single car in direct response to other people making those claims

Your comment has nothing to do with my comment. Which is why I asked why you were responding to me.

But that’s fine.

I just wanted to make your response wasn’t supposed to make any sense.
 

John89

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…okay. But my comment was pointing out how ridiculous it is to compare the weight of two different cars when commenting on whether or not a specific item has any weight savings on a single car in direct response to other people making those claims

Your comment has nothing to do with my comment. Which is why I asked why you were responding to me.

But that’s fine.

I just wanted to make your response wasn’t supposed to make any sense.
Got it. Most of my responses don't make sense to others.
 
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