So, is it acceptable or normal for dealerships to add $20k Premium?

fullmetalbaal

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Bingo! ECON 101 - Supply and Demand. Almost no supply, and lots of demand. Prices rise.

It's the same reason they can charge your $9 for a beer at the baseball stadium during a game. There is lots of demand, and only one supplier.
Again - just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD.

There are plenty of supply constrained products you can buy without mark-ups.

Also - keep in mind that IF Porsche decided they wanted this kind of relationship with customers, a tactical, transactional one vs. longer term loyalty... then at least they ought to benefit from it, but instead it's a sleazy dealer playing middle-man.

This is even worse for GT3 cars: some dealers even auction them off.

I bet on downturns, they dealers don't pay for the rebates - they instead ask corporate for discount programs etc.
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fullmetalbaal

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And wait. And wait. And have your VIN appear. Then disappear. Then get an ETA. Have that changed. Elon tweets..."2 weeks!". That changes. Then wait more. Paperwork comes. Whoops wrong car. New paperwork. Delivery date disappears. Now it's back on. OK, the car will be here soon. Ok, now you'll deliver it this week. Wait, you took off Thursday to come collect the car? It's not ready yet, come Friday. Oh wait, Friday it just rolled off the truck. Wait here while we "prep" it. Oh prep? Yeah we mean pull the plastic off and register the car. We didn't even bother cleaning the greasy handprints off your white seats. End of quarter, ya know ? We're all slammed to the max. Don't worry about all the paint / trim defects. Just send us an email and we'll get you on the list to fix it. Inspection? Yeah, we did it, but not sure where the paperwork is. Why do you need that? Oh paperwork? Yeah, we FedEX'd it to you. Didn't get it? We'll send it again. Oh wait, that's the wrong paperwork, sorry we'll send it again.

The buying process might be straightforward from an ordering and cost expectation standpoint. But suddenly, all those people at the traditional dealerships start looking like they're actually adding value, not just trying to sell you wheel and tire insurance....
Dunno.

The Teslas were the best buying experiences we've had.
Order online. Complete all transactional details except final signature via app.
Arrive at dealer, sign one line, depart in less than 15 min. (Average for picking up a German car has been >3hrs for me - that's BMWs, Audi, MB, Porsche) because invariably they want to sell extra warranty, change financing to their options,. etc.

For the Model X, they even delivered the car to our house and picked up the trade-in.

Also, unlike Porsche, MB etc. no funny business at the day of pick up.
("Sorry, Porsche changed the financing, the agreement we signed is no longer what we want to honor" .... all BS of course)

The delays at delivery can happen to any car company. My Porsche 911 was delayed 3 months (days or weeks at a time). My Taycan was similarly delayed. My BMW euro-delivery almost went south because we flew all the way to Munich and they almost didn't have the car ready.

Even IF Tesla has some growing pains right now, the model is fundamentally better.
Have heart burn recognizing that Tesla might have gotten something right? Fine. Wait a few months and call the Rivian or Lucid model revolutionary and so superior. Same difference.

Autonation etc. need to go to hell.
 
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Toodal00

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for my model Y, I submitted everything online, they called me to schedule delivery, car delivered inside of my garage the next morning, gave them the code and they opened up the car door and parked it inside. easiest car shopping experience ever! But then I checked the car and noticed a imperfection on the paint, car was picked up with a loaner dropped off the next day and returned to me couple weeks later. loaner car was p100D model X. Car is updated every month by tesla with new features.
 
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twporscheguy

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Again - just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD.

There are plenty of supply constrained products you can buy without mark-ups.

Also - keep in mind that IF Porsche decided they wanted this kind of relationship with customers, a tactical, transactional one vs. longer term loyalty... then at least they ought to benefit from it, but instead it's a sleazy dealer playing middle-man.

This is even worse for GT3 cars: some dealers even auction them off.

I bet on downturns, they dealers don't pay for the rebates - they instead ask corporate for discount programs etc.
To keep a better relationship rather than leaving it up to the individual dealers to fxxk up the brand, they should do worldwide price increases for supply shortage. Then cut the % to the dealer for selling more cars. This old school selling tactic doesn't work well in current day.
 

Toodal00

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To keep a better relationship rather than leaving it up to the individual dealers to fxxk up the brand, they should do worldwide price increases for supply shortage. Then cut the % to the dealer for selling more cars. This old school selling tactic doesn't work well in current day.
You can literally buy out of state and not pay any markup. some would even discount it but you have to either drive it home or have it shipped. but then you save 10-20k in stupid markup. I dont entertain dealers who price gouge when others arent doing it. either porsche increases all prices equally or don't charge markup
 


fullmetalbaal

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Funny, I read every post on this thread and have not seen one person comment on the behavior of consumers. The whole reason that ADM's exist is because of the "flippers". Dealers were sick and tired of selling at MSRP only to watch the car they just sold be sold for many thousands more by the customer.

I want a 2022 GT3. Every one I have found is carrying a $50k-60k ADM. I simply will not purchase one at that price. No one gets hurt in the ADM model because no one is forcing a consumer to purchase at any price except the price that they are willing to pay.




Apple and Hermes live in a perpetual over priced marked up world. $1,200 for a phone, $205 for tie and $165 for a pocket square? Personally, I think their margins are obscene but that's just me.
Good thing that Porsche isn't working with obscene margins on their most desirable cars, on accessories, replacement parts etc.
Oh wait.


The larger point though is across brands. There are supply constrained brands you can buy without markups. Both luxury and otherwise.

The american car dealer approach leads to excessive markups. Both luxury brands or otherwise.
I happen to be partial to Porsche cars, so it's there that I find it most annoying. But it's just as bad when they auction off a Mach-E or Raptor.
 

Alex74

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Needsdecaf

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Dunno.

The Teslas were the best buying experiences we've had.
Order online. Complete all transactional details except final signature via app.
Arrive at dealer, sign one line, depart in less than 15 min. (Average for picking up a German car has been >3hrs for me - that's BMWs, Audi, MB, Porsche) because invariably they want to sell extra warranty, change financing to their options,. etc.

For the Model X, they even delivered the car to our house and picked up the trade-in.

Also, unlike Porsche, MB etc. no funny business at the day of pick up.
("Sorry, Porsche changed the financing, the agreement we signed is no longer what we want to honor" .... all BS of course)

The delays at delivery can happen to any car company. My Porsche 911 was delayed 3 months (days or weeks at a time). My Taycan was similarly delayed. My BMW euro-delivery almost went south because we flew all the way to Munich and they almost didn't have the car ready.

Even IF Tesla has some growing pains right now, the model is fundamentally better.
Have heart burn recognizing that Tesla might have gotten something right? Fine. Wait a few months and call the Rivian or Lucid model revolutionary and so superior. Same difference.

Autonation etc. need to go to hell.
I've bought two Teslas.

Most of what I typed above was experienced by me personally. The rest of it was experienced by others buying Model 3's at EOQ, EOY or new model launch. None of it, I repeat, NONE of it is either hyperbole or a one off.

No funny business the day of pick up? You mean like when they told me that they were having trouble obtaining the payoff for my trade in because they were "having to wait too long on hold with your financing company" and literally asked me if I could just go ahead and not trade in my car to change the paperwork?

Or like when they sent me my final MVPA the day before the car was supposed to be here and included a provision for taxes, even though they knew I was registering the car myself and would be paying taxes out of pocket? And then told me I was wrong, that I had to pay them the taxes because my trade in was a lease? And weren't going to send me revised paperwork? LOL.

My two experiences were 16 months apart. And if anything the second was worse than the first. And the launch of the refreshed S has been a complete joke. There are people STILL waiting for their VIN's, and can anyone tell me when the refreshed X is actually going to start delivering?

Please don't pretend that Tesla is some kind of model of delivery smoothness.
 


Toodal00

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I've bought two Teslas.

Most of what I typed above was experienced by me personally. The rest of it was experienced by others buying Model 3's at EOQ, EOY or new model launch. None of it, I repeat, NONE of it is either hyperbole or a one off.

No funny business the day of pick up? You mean like when they told me that they were having trouble obtaining the payoff for my trade in because they were "having to wait too long on hold with your financing company" and literally asked me if I could just go ahead and not trade in my car to change the paperwork?

Or like when they sent me my final MVPA the day before the car was supposed to be here and included a provision for taxes, even though they knew I was registering the car myself and would be paying taxes out of pocket? And then told me I was wrong, that I had to pay them the taxes because my trade in was a lease? And weren't going to send me revised paperwork? LOL.

My two experiences were 16 months apart. And if anything the second was worse than the first. And the launch of the refreshed S has been a complete joke. There are people STILL waiting for their VIN's, and can anyone tell me when the refreshed X is actually going to start delivering?

Please don't pretend that Tesla is some kind of model of delivery smoothness.
ordered a model S last may, was promised latest august. now their is no delivery date. Why I placed a order for a taycan. No good person in the car world
 

fullmetalbaal

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I've bought two Teslas.

Most of what I typed above was experienced by me personally. The rest of it was experienced by others buying Model 3's at EOQ, EOY or new model launch. None of it, I repeat, NONE of it is either hyperbole or a one off.

No funny business the day of pick up? You mean like when they told me that they were having trouble obtaining the payoff for my trade in because they were "having to wait too long on hold with your financing company" and literally asked me if I could just go ahead and not trade in my car to change the paperwork?

Or like when they sent me my final MVPA the day before the car was supposed to be here and included a provision for taxes, even though they knew I was registering the car myself and would be paying taxes out of pocket? And then told me I was wrong, that I had to pay them the taxes because my trade in was a lease? And weren't going to send me revised paperwork? LOL.

My two experiences were 16 months apart. And if anything the second was worse than the first. And the launch of the refreshed S has been a complete joke. There are people STILL waiting for their VIN's, and can anyone tell me when the refreshed X is actually going to start delivering?

Please don't pretend that Tesla is some kind of model of delivery smoothness.
What I meant with "funny business" is not incompetence. There's plenty of that any time you deal with sales and with support.

I meant games designed to make you pay more, change the deal you agreed to, blatantly lies to extract more money.
 

Bella

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Funny, I read every post on this thread and have not seen one person comment on the behavior of consumers. The whole reason that ADM's exist is because of the "flippers". Dealers were sick and tired of selling at MSRP only to watch the car they just sold be sold for many thousands more by the customer.

I want a 2022 GT3. Every one I have found is carrying a $50k-60k ADM. I simply will not purchase one at that price. No one gets hurt in the ADM model because no one is forcing a consumer to purchase at any price except the price that they are willing to pay.




Apple and Hermes live in a perpetual over priced marked up world. $1,200 for a phone, $205 for tie and $165 for a pocket square? Personally, I think their margins are obscene but that's just me.
Flippers are not responsible for the ADM issue. Porsche never had ADM’s on Cars other than a few low production vehicles. I walked over to the Ford Dealer in Santa Barbara and almost every Car had an ADM. Do you think people are flipping 4 door passenger cars? The Chip Shortage, which has cut production, is causing Dealers to get greedy in order to make up for lost sales.
As someone earlier said Apple doesn’t add 10% to their prices when inventory is low. If a dealer puts a $5,000 ADM on a Taycan is that really meant to make sure someone doesn’t flip a Taycan. I have not heard about anyone flipping Taycans!!!
 

Kingske

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Flippers are not responsible for the ADM issue. Porsche never had ADM’s on Cars other than a few low production vehicles. I walked over to the Ford Dealer in Santa Barbara and almost every Car had an ADM. Do you think people are flipping 4 door passenger cars? The Chip Shortage, which has cut production, is causing Dealers to get greedy in order to make up for lost sales.
As someone earlier said Apple doesn’t add 10% to their prices when inventory is low. If a dealer puts a $5,000 ADM on a Taycan is that really meant to make sure someone doesn’t flip a Taycan. I have not heard about anyone flipping Taycans!!!
This guy flipped a Taycan.

Porsche Taycan So, is it acceptable or normal for dealerships to add $20k Premium? 1634155924115
 

RobbieRed

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It’s really simple. Either someone pays it. Or someone doesn’t.

I don’t blame the dealer at all. The whole point of selling anything is to sell for as much as you can get.

Ive been told jan2023 for a new CT if I wanted one, which makes me think they will sell it for the premium. Supply simply is not meeting demand in lots of sectors - Apple today announced 10% miss on new phones production due to chip shortage- things will get worse not better in the near future imo

As aside I get my CT 4S next week.

Reckon I’ll put a 5k deposit down for the slot in jan 2023 as I’ll get the latest model and won’t be losing much when I trade mine in - that’s the plan anyway!
 

Evpower

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with all due respect to all, what the policies are in the UK is irrelevant to what is the policies here in the US
A lot of Europeans comment on this site. Do you tell them you could care less and go away?
 

RingoDingo

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My local dealership has 2 new models on the lot and about 15 "incoming vehicles" on their website, which has been this way since July. Most the incoming are 2021 Macan's.
Sounds like you're in Austin.
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