So, is it acceptable or normal for dealerships to add $20k Premium?

[Klepper]

Again - just because they CAN doesn't mean they SHOULD.

There are plenty of supply constrained products you can buy without mark-ups.

Also - keep in mind that IF Porsche decided they wanted this kind of relationship with customers, a tactical, transactional one vs. longer term loyalty... then at least they ought to benefit from it, but instead it's a sleazy dealer playing middle-man.

This is even worse for GT3 cars: some dealers even auction them off.

I bet on downturns, they dealers don't pay for the rebates - they instead ask corporate for discount programs etc.

I guess I am just a full on "free market" kinda person. Let the buyers and sellers determine the price, not some artificially set cap of MSRP. I don't want a cap, because I don't want a floor either. I want a big discount to MSRP in an over-supplied market.

Just like my $9 beer at the ballpark example. Did I have to buy the beer....nope. Did I want to buy the beer at that moment at that spot.....Yes! Would I have rather paid $4....sure, but the seller would have rather sold it for $15 too. In the end, we stuck a deal that worked for both. Did he rip me off, because a beer shouldn't be worth $9? I don't think so, because if it was too high (for me, at that place, at that moment) then I woudn't have bought it. I could just wait until I got home and had the same beer for $1.

IMO, same goes for cars. If someone is willing to pay MSRP+ADM for a car because they want it NOW, rather than wait until the market cools down, then more power to the dealership for making some extra $$$.

Heck, it's the free market that lets me be able to buy a $100k+ car in the first place.

$0.02

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[riburn3]

I have not heard about anyone flipping Taycans!!!

Nor I. I guess it's possible to buy one this year, claim the EV credit, drive it a couple hundred miles, and sell it private for MSRP and pocket the tax refund.

This is what I have seen Vroom and Carvana doing with Jeep Wrangler 4xe stock. All these jeeps with a couple hundred miles selling for their MSRP, and the original owner gets to claim the tax credit. When I have pulled a few of the VINs out of curiosity, the owners are tied to car dealers, so it wouldn't surprise me if they are selling the car just above or at their margin, and then next year get sizeable EV credit.

 

[riburn3]

Sounds like you're in Austin.

Not quite, El Paso, but when I was car shopping for my CT4 order, I inquired with just about every dealer in Texas, NM, and Arizona (since NM and Arizona are closer to me than the rest of Texas). Just about every dealership outside the Penske one in Scottsdale had the same 2-3 cars on the lot situation. Most are still in this boat.

 

[fullmetalbaal]

I guess I am just a full on "free market" kinda person. Let the buyers and sellers determine the price, not some artificially set cap of MSRP. I don't want a cap, because I don't want a floor either. I want a big discount to MSRP in an over-supplied market.

Just like my $9 beer at the ballpark example. Did I have to buy the beer....nope. Did I want to buy the beer at that moment at that spot.....Yes! Would I have rather paid $4....sure, but the seller would have rather sold it for $15 too. In the end, we stuck a deal that worked for both. Did he rip me off, because a beer shouldn't be worth $9? I don't think so, because if it was too high (for me, at that place, at that moment) then I woudn't have bought it. I could just wait until I got home and had the same beer for $1.

IMO, same goes for cars. If someone is willing to pay MSRP+ADM for a car because they want it NOW, rather than wait until the market cools down, then more power to the dealership for making some extra $$$.

Heck, it's the free market that lets me be able to buy a $100k+ car in the first place.

$0.02

Yup. Those experiences should all exist.
And then there are those of us that value predictable pricing and see it as a longer term relationship.

I bought furniture at Room & Board precisely because i won't have to see a "now 25% off!" discount flyer a week after buying furniture (pretty much any other furniture place in the US...).

I am OK with Porsche having a great margin. I am even OK if they decided "supply constraints mean we pay more for chips : all models are +2K". I am not OK with sleazy Joe trying 20K, then 15K then 10K above MSRP to see how much he can scalp.

Of note, the current model also allows for all kinds of shady practices. My wife will never buy a car at a normal dealer again. She's "Tesla only" until Rivian and Lucid and others are around... then she has options. (I don't mess with her car choices so she doesn't mess with mine ). She got sick and tired of sexist dealers trying to mark up cars because it's an Asian American woman standing there. We've reliably proven this at multiple dealers - they typically started her 10-20% higher than the first offers they would extend to me, along with trying to upsell far more aggressively.

In the Tesla/Rivian/Lucid model, she orders online or in the app, gets the same price as anyone else, taps "buy", problem solved.

 

[Klepper]

I don’t blame the dealer at all. The whole point of selling anything is to sell for as much as you can get.....

Yup, I agree with this. Every company is trying to maximize profits, either by charging as much as they can, or cutting costs, or giving away a free set of steak knives with each purchase, etc. They can choose to maximize over a longer period of time (ie develop long term relationships with customers) or shorter periods of times (ie big ADM's). The point is that its THEIR choice on how to maximize THEIR profits.

If they act sleazy, or treat their customers poorly, or piss off enough of them with ADM's, it will hurt the demand at their dealership and their profit will suffer. But maybe they did the math, and ADM's piss off 20% of their customers and they lose them, but the other 80% don't care and pay the ADM. The ADM may more than make up for the 20% of customers they lose.

The point is, I don't think trying to maximize profits makes you sleazy or unethical, as long as you are not treating people unfairly.

Just my $0.02 (actually....$0.01 plus and ADM of $0.01)

 

[Klepper]

....She got sick and tired of sexist dealers trying to mark up cars because it's an Asian American woman standing there. We've reliably proven this at multiple dealers - they typically started her 10-20% higher than the first offers they would extend to me, along with trying to upsell far more aggressively.....

Yup, I can't stand this crap. I am glad she votes with her feet and takes her business elsewhere. Reduce the demand for those shady dealers, and what they can charge with drop and they will lose profits...hopefully to the point where they go out of business.

 

[Midlifecrisis]

As far as I am aware in the UK, dealers are not allowed to sell a new car above the recommended price but can do what they like with a second hand car, even if it is nearly new. I think the restriction is to prevent them using their allocations to buy up cars which they spec and sell them on at an even greater profit.

This seems to be a different model to the US where the system is set up differently. The only dealer cars for sale here are the showroom cars and the ex-demonstrators. All others are second hand/pre-owned.

 

[DerekS]

Any dealer who adds "market premium" stickers has immediately and permanently lost my business.

I will never pay over MSRP.

 

[makados]

My wife will never buy a car at a normal dealer again. She's "Tesla only" until Rivian and Lucid and others are around... then she has options.

That’s why I’m getting my cars through brokers. I got a Honda Accord years ago, and Star One credit union, who financed my purchase, had a free car brokering service. They shopped around for me, and delivered the car to my home, and I signed everything there on the spot. And that was years ago.

I used Cartelligent for my current car, and for my Taycan that I’m waiting (it’s on a ship in the middle of Atlantic). And it’s the same experience - car is delivered to me, sign on the spot, no upsells, and no sitting for 2-3 hours waiting for a finance guy.

Dealerships are for window shopping and service, they are not worth the hassle of buying from them directly.

 

[kort]

A lot of Europeans comment on this site. Do you tell them you could care less and go away?

really?
is comprehension an issue here?
I didn't say that their opinions have no value or are irrelevant,
what I said was the business practices of dealerships therein the UK are irrelevant to car buyers here in the US.

I don't know what issues you are beset with but don't lay them onto me.

 

[Reg]

Which also leads to why Teslas are selling faster than ever. No bullshit to deal with. Just put a deposit and wait.

From another forum.

Sep 26th I got the VIN. And got the message that i ll get update at each stage. On Sep 28th they send the agreements to review and asked me to upload insurance copy and pay the down payment. For my case the down payment was 17k$. On 29th sep they asked me send the bank information and upload the bank guarantee document. I did that as well. And i got message that the delivery has been scheduled on sep 30 between 9 am and 6 pm. But nothing has happened. Bank released the fund on 30th sep. after that i haven’t received any message from them. In Tesla portal they mentioned the delivery date as 13th October between 2 AM and 4 AM ..it is early morningg ..till now, they are saying the car is still in production" My friend emailed them saying you made me pay to meet your q3 deadline and he got a return call from a lady who was very rude to him.

TLDR. Told to pay for the car, told when to pick it up, then told it was still in production, then crickets.

The Tesla Hype Rule has been invoked:

In any forum discussing something about a car, FSD, batteries, solar, AI, ML, or any car tech or car process, someone will quickly bring up how Tesla does it better.

Took only 25 posts!

 

[DANgerous]

The dealer isn't necessarily being greedy, they might have bills to pay and few alternatives to turn to. If they don't have cars to sell due to supply shortages then they can either take losses for a limited time, mark up the prices of the inventory they have, or go out of business. As many have said, they are not forcing anyone to pay this amount. It's a gamble on their part because if nobody buys then they make nothing. If nobody buys I suspect the price will drop or they will give some wiggle room.

Full disclosure: I wouldn't pay +20k, I'd wait it out. However there are plenty of people out there with much more disposable income and/or less sense than me. However if I wanted the car ASAP and 20k meant nothing to me, I'd almost certainly splash out if there were no other options. A good problem to have imo...

 

[Chamo74]

Yes h

Contacted a dealer yesterday regarding a car posted on their site for MSRP. The rep replied saying it's available, but "oh wait, please add $20k premium". Makes this buying experience terrible since it feels like they are fishing for customer info or making people go into the dealership to sell their other cars.

https://www.porscheredwoodcity.com/...pUQb0aVMeNdZraj0uG_XTcRYqJIr7CeRtZxjW1XNSaCxo

yep horrendous stuff right there. But wait it’s gonna get worse, lots worse. There are literally very few, like almost no cars available so they are gonna charge whatever the marker will support. Sad but true

 

[neilj007]

Flippers are not responsible for the ADM issue. Porsche never had ADM’s on Cars other than a few low production vehicles. I walked over to the Ford Dealer in Santa Barbara and almost every Car had an ADM. Do you think people are flipping 4 door passenger cars? The Chip Shortage, which has cut production, is causing Dealers to get greedy in order to make up for lost sales.
As someone earlier said Apple doesn’t add 10% to their prices when inventory is low. If a dealer puts a $5,000 ADM on a Taycan is that really meant to make sure someone doesn’t flip a Taycan. I have not heard about anyone flipping Taycans!!!

Looking at Porsche's UK approved used Taycans - doubt you'll find any under list...lots of flipping...

 

[feye]

I can understand the dealers. They have fixed costs, but less new cars coming in to sell with the shortage.

As for the fanboys here: There are so many stories about the famous "delivery hell" as they call it in Germany. Not sure if their model is any way better.

https://www.torquenews.com/1083/sho...-earn-higher-review-scores-traditional-brands

I personally like going to a nice dealership and if I don't like the sales, I pick another one.

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