South of UK - Winter wheels thoughts

kempez

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Hi All. I'm prepping for delivery of my car in *some time period* soonish. One thing I've umm'd and ahh'd about is getting a set of Winter Wheels and tyres.

My car has a set of 20" Turbo Aero wheels and I'm currently thinking about whether I order a set of 21" summer wheels and tyres and swap to winter tyres for the 20", or I may just get an extra set of 20" wheels. Anyway, I digress as this is my own dilemma. Porsche Reading will at least store wheels at the dealer (for a fee), which is great. The 20" will likely come with PS4's and the 21" would come with Eagle Asym 3's

What I'm asking is whether UK users think it's worth getting winter wheels/tyres on my Taycan?

I've previously had a few different cars and found that, say, my RS3 didn't really benefit much from winter wheels and on the 2-3 days of actual deep snow we had I didn't drive much, but icy conditions never really affected it. 4WD and just being very slightly more careful at this time of year was easily manageable. However, on my old C63, winter wheels and tyres were an absolute must and tbh it would have been foolish bordering on insanity not to buy and use them.

I'm thinking the Taycan fits into the same category with the RS3. For our fairly mild UK winters it will be more than perfectly drive-able with a small bit of care and a slight back off of the throttle. I don't necessarily care about the money, more about the faff of changing wheels for a brief 2-3 month period every year.

I'm getting a Taycan Turbo ST, for context. Tyres are likely to be Michelin PS4's apparently.

Thoughts and opinions? Again, this is based on be being in sunny Hampshire in the UK
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f1eng

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I've previously had a few different cars and found that, say, my RS3 didn't really benefit much from winter wheels and on the 2-3 days of actual deep snow we had I didn't drive much, but icy conditions never really affected it. 4WD and just being very slightly more careful at this time of year was easily manageable. However, on my old C63, winter wheels and tyres were an absolute must and tbh it would have been foolish bordering on insanity not to buy and use them.
I only discovered winter tyres when living in France and the difference was vast.
I wouldn’t be without them now.

Don’t forget that whilst 4WD may mean you can get going easier than a front heavy RWD your RS3 brakes and steering grip were just as crap as the Mercs on summer tyres in cold-wet or snowy conditions.
I am not convinced that having a system that lets you get going but doesn’t help braking or steering is a benefit safety wise.

I have used winter tyres every winter for 20 years or so Here in Oxfordshire (the warmest county in the UK)
 
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kempez

kempez

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I only discovered winter tyres when living in France and the difference was vast.
I wouldn’t be without them now.

Don’t forget that whilst 4WD may mean you can get going easier than a front heavy RWD your RS3 brakes and steering grip were just as crap as the Mercs on summer tyres in cold-wet or snowy conditions.
I am not convinced that having a system that lets you get going but doesn’t help braking or steering is a benefit safety wise.

I have used winter tyres every winter for 20 years or so Here in Oxfordshire (the warmest county in the UK)
See this is the thing. The RS3 had Pirelli PZero and ventilated 370mm 6 piston caliper'd front discs and 300mm rears with 4 piston calipers. It also weighed 800 kilo's less than the Taycan. This combination meant it was more than capable of getting round corners in wet or slightly icy conditions, much more so than the C63 and in every single condition applicable, even with the C63 on winters. Now I'm not saying it had the same dynamics as a Taycan, but it really was an all-year-round extremely capable car.

However, I do take your point that winter tyres are a huge benefit and you've a lot more knowledge than me in general 👍 In your opinion then: if say I kept my 20" wheels for summer (I quite like the look of them) and bought an extra set of 20" for winters: would this be a decent option? I'm also thinking of just how awful the roads are around here and potholes and rim scrapes are not something I'm up for tbh. The extra range of a 20" wheel is nice too, albeit I'm missing out on a bit of width of rubber, but I'm not convinced I'd use it anywhere other than a track.

Never bothered, never will unless I move North, which I consider to be anything above the A303.
lol well sometimes I venture above the A303 ;)
 
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WuffvonTrips

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Never bothered, never will unless I move North, which I consider to be anything above the A303.
Up here in the NW I've had just one occasion in 40 years when I wished I had better grip, otherwise I've been happy going a bit slower when necessary in wintry conditions. Away from the hills in the NW I suspect we generally have less extreme winter weather than much of the country.
My car has a set of 20" Turbo Aero wheels and I'm currently thinking about whether I order a set of 21" summer wheels and tyres and swap to winter tyres for the 20"...
Hmm, now if I were wanting to upgrade to 21"s I'd use this as the sensible justification;)
 


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kempez

kempez

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Up here in the NW I've had just one occasion in 40 years when I wished I had better grip, otherwise I've been happy going a bit slower when necessary in wintry conditions. Away from the hills in the NW I suspect we generally have less extreme winter weather than much of the country.

Hmm, now if I were wanting to upgrade to 21"s I'd use this as the sensible justification;)
Sensible is pushing it I think :giggle: . I am actually not a massive fan of many of the Taycan wheel options, I wish the Turbo Aero were available in 21". The RS Spyder design wheels I quite like and maybe the exclusive design wheels, black painted. But none of them make me *really* want to buy them (hence I specified 20" Turbo rims)
 

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See this is the thing. The RS3 had Pirelli PZero and ventilated 370mm 6 piston caliper'd front discs and 300mm rears with 4 piston calipers. It also weighed 800 kilo's less than the Taycan. This combination meant it was more than capable of getting round corners in wet or slightly icy conditions, much more so than the C63 and in every single condition applicable, even with the C63 on winters. Now I'm not saying it had the same dynamics as a Taycan, but it really was an all-year-round extremely capable car.

However, I do take your point that winter tyres are a huge benefit and you've a lot more knowledge than me in general 👍 In your opinion then: if say I kept my 20" wheels for summer (I quite like the look of them) and bought an extra set of 20" for winters: would this be a decent option? I'm also thinking of just how awful the roads are around here and potholes andrim scrapes are not something I'm up for tbh. The extra range of a 20" wheel is nice too, albeit I'm missing out on a bit of width of rubber, but I'm not convinced I'd use it anywhere other than a track.



lol well sometimes I venture above the A303 ;)
It is tyre grip not brake size which determines stopping distance. If you had had winter tyres on the RS3 it would have been better in snow and also cold wet conditions, and as I discovered, much better at getting out of a muddy overflow car park!

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Review-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

But the tester uses “all season” tyres for the UK winter because less snow and more cold-wet

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre-Tests/All-Season/

The guy did a controlled temperature test a while ago which I can’t find atm but the difference in grip between a winter tyre on cold wet tarmac and a top quality summer tyre was shockingly big imo.
 

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Sensible is pushing it I think :giggle: . I am actually not a massive fan of many of the Taycan wheel options, I wish the Turbo Aero were available in 21". The RS Spyder design wheels I quite like and maybe the exclusive design wheels, black painted. But none of them make me *really* want to buy them (hence I specified 20" Turbo rims)
My dislike of almost all Taycan wheel options is limiting too!
I ordered 21” CT wheels, which are the ones I like best.
The only 20” wheel I like is the 20” CT which isn’t on the list for winter tyres, and the GTS spec painted one which is only listed for the GTS though I can’t see why the dealer wouldn’t get them for me.

The thing is also one gets no choice of which tyre Porsche supply, I had planned to go with the Michelin Cross climate for my next “winter tyre”

IME the tyre is the most important part of a car and having the best one for the job is a complete no-brainer. As Lewis Hamilton and Mercedes demonstrated at Zandvoort yesterday.

It is possible to get away without by going slower but in an emergency swerve or stop you are still f*cked.
 


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Another one who is in the winter tyres camp. What many people seem to over look is that winter tyres are not just for when it is snowing/icy they also perform better than summer tyres when the temperature drops below 7 degrees Celsius. I always tell friends and family it's similar to when you go walking in slippy conditions...the sensible thing to do is to wear shoes that have grip rather than ones that you'll slip all over the place in.

In addition buying them and rotating with the summers every year reduces the wear on the summer tyres...resulting in both sets lasting an extremely long time.

So yes I would always advise winter tyres, ideally a different set of alloys etc but if not swapping them is also an easy process which costs around £30
 

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Never had winter tyres before though if hadn’t been for lockdowns may have had them on the iPace. Heavy, high performance cars. Want maximum stopping power sub 10C, let alone any bonus on snow/ice (which I’ll still try to avoid driving in due to others).

Made easier by planning an Alps drive in February and having my partner in Scotland but would have done it anyway for the Turbo.

I’ve just ordered tyres, not many about so get in quick. Not getting dedicated wheels, any slight damage that may occur from a couple of changes a year will cost far less than me having two sets of alloys to invariably kerb…(though having the 20” ones they aren’t as easy to damage as the 21” …).

Edit: Also, checked with Admiral and they are fine with Winter Tyres so long as notify when changed over. £30 admin fee of course to update the documentation…….
 

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Hi All. I'm prepping for delivery of my car in *some time period* soonish. One thing I've umm'd and ahh'd about is getting a set of Winter Wheels and tyres.

My car has a set of 20" Turbo Aero wheels and I'm currently thinking about whether I order a set of 21" summer wheels and tyres and swap to winter tyres for the 20", or I may just get an extra set of 20" wheels. Anyway, I digress as this is my own dilemma. Porsche Reading will at least store wheels at the dealer (for a fee), which is great. The 20" will likely come with PS4's and the 21" would come with Eagle Asym 3's

What I'm asking is whether UK users think it's worth getting winter wheels/tyres on my Taycan?

I've previously had a few different cars and found that, say, my RS3 didn't really benefit much from winter wheels and on the 2-3 days of actual deep snow we had I didn't drive much, but icy conditions never really affected it. 4WD and just being very slightly more careful at this time of year was easily manageable. However, on my old C63, winter wheels and tyres were an absolute must and tbh it would have been foolish bordering on insanity not to buy and use them.

I'm thinking the Taycan fits into the same category with the RS3. For our fairly mild UK winters it will be more than perfectly drive-able with a small bit of care and a slight back off of the throttle. I don't necessarily care about the money, more about the faff of changing wheels for a brief 2-3 month period every year.

I'm getting a Taycan Turbo ST, for context. Tyres are likely to be Michelin PS4's apparently.

Thoughts and opinions? Again, this is based on be being in sunny Hampshire in the UK
Personally, I have not opted for winter wheel and tyre sets. I have the 20" Turbo rims on my T4S which is shod in Michelin SP4s. I've had two winters (last year was bad for a week with much deep snow) and the car handled the situation impeccably (gradients where cars and lorries got stuck) and just rose the car height to cope with ruts and rarely used the throttle. Braking is a breeze as the motors do the work and so I don't think I ever experienced slippage during the period. 2.3T of dead weight and all wheel drive really helps the situation here and to be honest my Taycan coped better than either of my Cayennes or Macan (honest).

From a safety perspective I would never advise someone not to take a winter set (for any car) but personally (given my situation) I'll continue to live without. If the weather is really that bad I would choose to stay at home as the real hazard is other folk on the roads!
 

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Braking is a breeze as the motors do the work and so I don't think I ever experienced slippage during the period. 2.3T of dead weight and all wheel drive really helps the situation here and to be honest
You may feel this way but technically this is incorrect.

Braking performance is entirely dependant on tyre grip since the brakes are capable of locking the wheels in an emergency stop with any tyre and grip level. Emergency braking will be much shorter on winter tyres on snow or cold wet tarmac.

No tyre ever made has a linear friction curve so any increase in grip due to weight is less than is needed to compensate for the inertia of that weight ie more weight is always less grip.

All wheel drive does improve traction of course, but not braking or steering.
 

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You may feel this way but technically this is incorrect.

Braking performance is entirely dependant on tyre grip since the brakes are capable of locking the wheels in an emergency stop with any tyre and grip level. Emergency braking will be much shorter on winter tyres on snow or cold wet tarmac.

No tyre ever made has a linear friction curve so any increase in grip due to weight is less than is needed to compensate for the inertia of that weight ie more weight is always less grip.

All wheel drive does improve traction of course, but not braking or steering.
Indeed.

Braking - I realise that but my point is more around non-emergency braking (or panic braking) where you aren't applying much pressure to the pedal in the knowledge that the motors are providing the friction to slow the car down. Actually, when it's snowing I always make sure I have recuperation 'On' - again to avoid unnecessary pedal braking.

I'm sure some / most of it is non-scientific but psychologically it works for me.
 

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It is tyre grip not brake size which determines stopping distance. If you had had winter tyres on the RS3 it would have been better in snow and also cold wet conditions, and as I discovered, much better at getting out of a muddy overflow car park!

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Article/2021-Tyre-Review-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

But the tester uses “all season” tyres for the UK winter because less snow and more cold-wet

https://www.tyrereviews.com/Tyre-Tests/All-Season/

The guy did a controlled temperature test a while ago which I can’t find atm but the difference in grip between a winter tyre on cold wet tarmac and a top quality summer tyre was shockingly big imo.


Ideally for UK/NL, you spec an all-season for our winters.
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