Summit Point Raceway Bans EV and Hybrids

tbinmd

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This what summit sent out on 3/30.

ATTENTION EVENT ORGANIZERS

Our commitment to the safety of participants, clients, spectators, and employees at Summit Point Motorsports Park is an ongoing process. Best practices are continually scrutinized and revised.

Upon review of SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) document J2990 and NFPA (National Fire Protection Association) document 70 and in consideration of the requirements specifically requested by event organizers we have halted the use of Electric and Hybrid Electric Vehicles

in all motorsports disciplines.

This decision was not taken lightly, and we endeavor to better understand, support, and develop policies to meet industry best practices for emergency support and response requirements related to Electric and Hybrid Electric Vehicles.
 

daveo4EV

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while EV fires are rare - much rarer than ICE fires - once they start they are impossible/very-difficult to put out - so you have have to let them burn…and it requires a lot of water

it's a hard call for a race track…

I'm' disappointed, but also understand it.

hmmmmm - it's a problem.

don't have very many EV fires, but the ones you do get are very very super difficult to deal with.
 

detansinn

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It only takes one Tesla Plaid flying off the track due to inadequate brakes to ruin the fun for everybody else.
 


f1eng

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while EV fires are rare - much rarer than ICE fires - once they start they are impossible/very-difficult to put out - so you have have to let them burn…and it requires a lot of water

it's a hard call for a race track…

I'm' disappointed, but also understand it.

hmmmmm - it's a problem.

don't have very many EV fires, but the ones you do get are very very super difficult to deal with.
I sat on, or was an invited guest on several motor sport rules setting bodies for over 20 years, Formula 1 mainly but also Le Mans, WEC and CHAMP cars.
When Formula 1 went hybrid there were a lot of extra questions over safety but the main one was the safety of track marshals attending a serious crash - the concern was electrocution due to any sort of short circuit caused in the damage due to breached battery or cut cables.

It has evolved since I was last involved but a warning light and master switch both easy to see from outside the car were mandated and everybody told not to touch the car until told it was safe.

We were all, frankly, sh1tting ourselves about it from the beginning and it is still scary to think the car could come into the pits with an unknown fault and kill a mechanic when he grabs it to pull it back into the garage.

I can quite see that a careful look at the use of EV and hybrid road cars on track would make it clear they were unlikely to have the level of track worker safety circuit insurers would find acceptable.
 

TYKHAAAN

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I sat on, or was an invited guest on several motor sport rules setting bodies for over 20 years, Formula 1 mainly but also Le Mans, WEC and CHAMP cars.
When Formula 1 went hybrid there were a lot of extra questions over safety but the main one was the safety of track marshals attending a serious crash - the concern was electrocution due to any sort of short circuit caused in the damage due to breached battery or cut cables.

It has evolved since I was last involved but a warning light and master switch both easy to see from outside the car were mandated and everybody told not to touch the car until told it was safe.

We were all, frankly, sh1tting ourselves about it from the beginning and it is still scary to think the car could come into the pits with an unknown fault and kill a mechanic when he grabs it to pull it back into the garage.

I can quite see that a careful look at the use of EV and hybrid road cars on track would make it clear they were unlikely to have the level of track worker safety circuit insurers would find acceptable.
Hmm…I don’t know anything about F1 racing or the dangers involved, but the electrocution scenario sounds improbable to impossible….that’s not how the battery or electricity in a car platform works. I’ve never seen a report of anyone getting electrocuted from an EV or Hybrid (that of course doesnt mean it hasnt happened, i know). EV fires, yes, that. I understand and is a serious risk. But electrocution? I’m going to do some more research into that but it just doesn’t ring right to me…
 

f1eng

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Hmm…I don’t know anything about F1 racing or the dangers involved, but the electrocution scenario sounds improbable to impossible….that’s not how the battery or electricity in a car platform works. I’ve never seen a report of anyone getting electrocuted from an EV or Hybrid (that of course doesnt mean it hasnt happened, i know). EV fires, yes, that. I understand and is a serious risk. But electrocution? I’m going to do some more research into that but it just doesn’t ring right to me…
Duh!
Electrocution is a far more likely scenario than a battery fire with a racing car accident.
Not sure where you would get more data than we had though, not sure it is public.

Don’t know of a battery fire at a racing car accident, I know of several incidents where people had to stand clear until isolation was managed because external parts of the car were live.

All the mechanics on hybrid and Formula-E have insulated gauntlets to wear under certain circumstances - it has been like that for around 15 years.

Your ignorance of it doesn’t mean it isn’t real. What makes you so sure it would be impossible for a car with and 800V battery not to have a short circuit leading to external metal parts of a car being live?
 


TYKHAAAN

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Duh!
Electrocution is a far more likely scenario than a battery fire with a racing car accident.
Not sure where you would get more data than we had though, not sure it is public.

Don’t know of a battery fire at a racing car accident, I know of several incidents where people had to stand clear until isolation was managed because external parts of the car were live.

All the mechanics on hybrid and Formula-E have insulated gauntlets to wear under certain circumstances - it has been like that for around 15 years.

Your ignorance of it doesn’t mean it isn’t real. What makes you so sure it would be impossible for a car with and 800V battery not to have a short circuit leading to external metal parts of a car being live?
Wow...aren't you a charming one. Bet people just love you. Don't talk to me or my posts again please. You have nothing constructive or respectful to add. Feel free to block me and I'll do the same. Thanks
 

daveo4EV

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if we're going to be blocking people - I know which one is the greater loss to the general community.
 

f1eng

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Sorry folks, having somebody who very obviously has zero experience and not much knowledge questioning facts learned over many years wound me up.

I actually considerably toned down my reply before posting it.
 

tbinmd

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Summit does lack the water needed to handle an EV fire. I've been at summit using the skid pad and they've made us shut the water off.
 

Genau

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Hmm…I don’t know anything about F1 racing or the dangers involved, but the electrocution scenario sounds improbable to impossible….that’s not how the battery or electricity in a car platform works. I’ve never seen a report of anyone getting electrocuted from an EV or Hybrid (that of course doesnt mean it hasnt happened, i know). EV fires, yes, that. I understand and is a serious risk. But electrocution? I’m going to do some more research into that but it just doesn’t ring right to me…
Here's Porsche's guide for emergency responders concerning the hazards of the 800 volt battery:
As @tbinmd mentioned, that's associated with NFPA.
Porsche service instructions include special hazard warnings for working around the high voltage components marked with orange coloring.
Similar emergency responder guides are provided buy other EV manufacturers.
@Gubbjaevel originally posted the link to the Porsche guide in this thread:
 

TYKHAAAN

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Here's Porsche's guide for emergency responders concerning the hazards of the 800 volt battery:
As @tbinmd mentioned, that's associated with NFPA.
Porsche service instructions include special hazard warnings for working around the high voltage components marked with orange coloring.
Similar emergency responder guides are provided buy other EV manufacturers.
@Gubbjaevel originally posted the link to the Porsche guide in this thread:
Thank you! This is very helpful and informative.

I asked in my original post, and verified in talks other EV owners, others with firefighting backgrounds and some engineering types, and they cannot show me nor do they know of any correlative data that shows more people actually getting electrocuted by them. Think about it, if this was a thing, the anti EV crowd would be all over it, just like the fires (can you drive that thing in the rain? 🙄 Yes, I’ve been asked that. Welcome to Alabama…). There is a risk of serious shock from a gas car as well of course. I was curious as to was there truly a risk with EVs that was significantly increased, especially in regards to crashes. I thought perhaps F1 and the electric vehicles used in it, were different than street legal EVs and posed a greater risk of shock.

I’m not sure why i feel i have to explain myself, but there it is. I don’t think anyone in here is unintelligent (in fact, many of you have demonstrated many times you are some of the brightest out there) and I don’t like being treated like I am a dullard for asking a question is all. I’d like to think i do ok for what i know, but i am well aware i do not know everything and am always eager to learn something new.
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