[email protected]

Well-Known Member
First Name
H
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
104
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S, BMW 530XDAT, BMW 320I convertible, Mini Cooper
Country flag
Just thought I‘d drop a few lines on last weekend’s experiences over here in the winter mountains of Norway.

Got up to my cabin Friday evening, going from +5 Celsius at sea level to minus 10 C at 1000 meters altitude. Arrived with about 28% of charge left after roughly 290 km of mixed winter driving (started out with about 98% charge). Put the car on the emergency trickle charger (220V / 10A), and mostly left the car on the charger for the weekend.

Started my return on Tuesday around 11am with 68% charge. Yes, that’s all I got after 3 days on the 220V trickle charge, but wasn’t worried, car said it would get me home with around 8% to spare. Temperature varying between minus 5 to 10 coming down from the mountain. Preheated the car on charger before taking off.

Now’s when things got interesting. This time of winter, we sometimes experience a “dry” winter over here. That means we have plenty of snow and ice, but it’s not wet - it just blows around. So what sometimes happen is that when passing and overtaking cars (it’s been know to happen in a Taycan) - you get more and more dirt & grime buildup on the windscreen. No problem, just press the window washer stalk, right? Wrong.... Those hoses are frozen solid after 3 days in subzero temperatures, even after preheating a couple of times. So all you get is a nice squeeeeeking as dry rubber judders across a dirty windscreen. At one point I was seriously considering pulling over and clean the thing with snow. Luckily after 2 hours I was back down to sea level and 5 “warm” degrees, and things started thawing a bit.

Also, when doing long stretches of driving, I like to use the sport chrono mode “knob” to switch from, say “Range” to “Sport+” before overtaking slower cars. Another cold weather surprise reared it’s head then; the knob was totally unresponsive - nothing happened when turning it, zip - zilch - nada. Mode change through the PCM screen still works of course, but not the “mechanical” switch. Oh well, no problem - but it wasn’t really _that_ cold yet, - proper winter is not due until January really....

Another thing that kept nagging at the back of my mind while staying up at the cabin was the fact that I’d forgotten the start booster I’d just bought after experiencing the funny 12V battery dead car drain a couple of weeks back. Would NOT be funny to have that happen way up at the cabin. Closest Porsche Assistance (which just redirects to the local resident tow truck over here) would probably be hours away on a Sunday, if not days actually. Needless to say, I didn’t use the app to check on the car all weekend.

So, all in all an interesting experience. Car is still the best car to _drive_ that I’ve ever had. Just a tad bit worrisome that for 1.2 million Norwegian Krone (about $137.000) don’t expect to get working window vipers and sport chrono package in subzero temperatures (or maybe it was the altitude :).
On the upside; I didn’t experience the dreaded inside “window-fog” buildup, but then I was alone in the car (which really is to be preferred anyway - if you can make it).





Advertisement

 

JacobDK

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jacob
Joined
Jan 12, 2020
Messages
141
Reaction score
182
Location
Denmark
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S
Country flag
Just thought I‘d drop a few lines on last weekend’s experiences over here in the winter mountains of Norway.

Got up to my cabin Friday evening, going from +5 Celsius at sea level to minus 10 C at 1000 meters altitude. Arrived with about 28% of charge left after roughly 290 km of mixed winter driving (started out with about 98% charge). Put the car on the emergency trickle charger (220V / 10A), and mostly left the car on the charger for the weekend.

Started my return on Tuesday around 11am with 68% charge. Yes, that’s all I got after 3 days on the 220V trickle charge, but wasn’t worried, car said it would get me home with around 8% to spare. Temperature varying between minus 5 to 10 coming down from the mountain. Preheated the car on charger before taking off.

Now’s when things got interesting. This time of winter, we sometimes experience a “dry” winter over here. That means we have plenty of snow and ice, but it’s not wet - it just blows around. So what sometimes happen is that when passing and overtaking cars (it’s been know to happen in a Taycan) - you get more and more dirt & grime buildup on the windscreen. No problem, just press the window washer stalk, right? Wrong.... Those hoses are frozen solid after 3 days in subzero temperatures, even after preheating a couple of times. So all you get is a nice squeeeeeking as dry rubber judders across a dirty windscreen. At one point I was seriously considering pulling over and clean the thing with snow. Luckily after 2 hours I was back down to sea level and 5 “warm” degrees, and things started thawing a bit.

Also, when doing long stretches of driving, I like to use the sport chrono mode “knob” to switch from, say “Range” to “Sport+” before overtaking slower cars. Another cold weather surprise reared it’s head then; the knob was totally unresponsive - nothing happened when turning it, zip - zilch - nada. Mode change through the PCM screen still works of course, but not the “mechanical” switch. Oh well, no problem - but it wasn’t really _that_ cold yet, - proper winter is not due until January really....

Another thing that kept nagging at the back of my mind while staying up at the cabin was the fact that I’d forgotten the start booster I’d just bought after experiencing the funny 12V battery dead car drain a couple of weeks back. Would NOT be funny to have that happen way up at the cabin. Closest Porsche Assistance (which just redirects to the local resident tow truck over here) would probably be hours away on a Sunday, if not days actually. Needless to say, I didn’t use the app to check on the car all weekend.

So, all in all an interesting experience. Car is still the best car to _drive_ that I’ve ever had. Just a tad bit worrisome that for 1.2 million Norwegian Krone (about $137.000) don’t expect to get working window vipers and sport chrono package in subzero temperatures (or maybe it was the altitude :).
On the upside; I didn’t experience the dreaded inside “window-fog” buildup, but then I was alone in the car (which really is to be preferred anyway - if you can make it).
how much battery did you have left when returning home - 8% or?
 
OP
H@wk

[email protected]

Well-Known Member
First Name
H
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
104
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S, BMW 530XDAT, BMW 320I convertible, Mini Cooper
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #3
how much battery did you have left when returning home - 8% or?
Good point, it was actually dead on 8%. Pretty impressive estimate by the Taycan there, given the altitude drop and varying temperatures.
 

WalterG

Active Member
First Name
Walter
Joined
Oct 3, 2020
Messages
34
Reaction score
36
Location
Boston
Vehicles
Taycan4S
Country flag
Great info for winter driving- Thanks!

I've put winter tires on and thought I was all set :) I guess I will now also get some winter windshield fluid like Prestone that "...protected against freezing in temperatures down to -27°F (-32°C) and is a de-icer to help melt ice quickly." https://www.autoguide.com/top-10-best-windshield-washer-fluids

That's kind of weird about the chrono knob not working. I also do the switch-to-sport+-for-passing thing.
 

Scandinavian

Well-Known Member
First Name
Peter
Joined
Nov 3, 2019
Messages
824
Reaction score
616
Location
France
Vehicles
Taycan T, Tesla M3P, Aston Martin DB9, Porsche 996 C4 Cab
Country flag
Just thought I‘d drop a few lines on last weekend’s experiences over here in the winter mountains of Norway.

Got up to my cabin Friday evening, going from +5 Celsius at sea level to minus 10 C at 1000 meters altitude. Arrived with about 28% of charge left after roughly 290 km of mixed winter driving (started out with about 98% charge). Put the car on the emergency trickle charger (220V / 10A), and mostly left the car on the charger for the weekend.

Started my return on Tuesday around 11am with 68% charge. Yes, that’s all I got after 3 days on the 220V trickle charge, but wasn’t worried, car said it would get me home with around 8% to spare. Temperature varying between minus 5 to 10 coming down from the mountain. Preheated the car on charger before taking off.

Now’s when things got interesting. This time of winter, we sometimes experience a “dry” winter over here. That means we have plenty of snow and ice, but it’s not wet - it just blows around. So what sometimes happen is that when passing and overtaking cars (it’s been know to happen in a Taycan) - you get more and more dirt & grime buildup on the windscreen. No problem, just press the window washer stalk, right? Wrong.... Those hoses are frozen solid after 3 days in subzero temperatures, even after preheating a couple of times. So all you get is a nice squeeeeeking as dry rubber judders across a dirty windscreen. At one point I was seriously considering pulling over and clean the thing with snow. Luckily after 2 hours I was back down to sea level and 5 “warm” degrees, and things started thawing a bit.

Also, when doing long stretches of driving, I like to use the sport chrono mode “knob” to switch from, say “Range” to “Sport+” before overtaking slower cars. Another cold weather surprise reared it’s head then; the knob was totally unresponsive - nothing happened when turning it, zip - zilch - nada. Mode change through the PCM screen still works of course, but not the “mechanical” switch. Oh well, no problem - but it wasn’t really _that_ cold yet, - proper winter is not due until January really....

Another thing that kept nagging at the back of my mind while staying up at the cabin was the fact that I’d forgotten the start booster I’d just bought after experiencing the funny 12V battery dead car drain a couple of weeks back. Would NOT be funny to have that happen way up at the cabin. Closest Porsche Assistance (which just redirects to the local resident tow truck over here) would probably be hours away on a Sunday, if not days actually. Needless to say, I didn’t use the app to check on the car all weekend.

So, all in all an interesting experience. Car is still the best car to _drive_ that I’ve ever had. Just a tad bit worrisome that for 1.2 million Norwegian Krone (about $137.000) don’t expect to get working window vipers and sport chrono package in subzero temperatures (or maybe it was the altitude :).
On the upside; I didn’t experience the dreaded inside “window-fog” buildup, but then I was alone in the car (which really is to be preferred anyway - if you can make it).
Interesting experience but a bit concerning in a number of aspects.
I guess in Norway you are quite well prepared for winter driving in sub zero temperatures, so I guess you must have had too little antifreeze in your washer fluid? I know a number of ICE cars will have waste heat from the engine circulating to heat the washer fluid, but with an EV that would be an extra drain on the battery.

Your charging experience is really weird? Did you use the Porsche charger for this? I see you say 220 volt and 10 ampere. But was this your socket or did you see this ampere value in the car or on the charger. I believe that if you plug in a normal plug for a 10 amp socket, the charger reduces the current to max 6 amp, in order to protect the circuit?

Assuming you arrived really late on Friday, you would have been charging for nearly 85 hours. At 6 amp you would get 1.3 kW, which certainly should have given more than your 68 % charge. Even if you assume a 20% charging loss, which is seriously high.

However you state that you have run the preheat a few times? Did you let it run for the full 1 hour that the Car schedules?

I have run preheat with the car plugged in a few times and the car can draw more than 5kW at start of preheat. I have seen this running for some 15 minutes and then it reduces to a lower level, 25 to 3 kW. So if you only have a 220 volt charger, power will be taken from the battery as well as the 220 volt circuit. If you have it as cold as minus 10 C it may stay on higher power consumption for longer?

Might be worth installing a 16 amp continues circuit or alternatively a three phase circuit for charging at your cabin? Norway seem to have electric heating in most of their cabins, so maybe three phase is standard?
 
OP
H@wk

[email protected]

Well-Known Member
First Name
H
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
104
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S, BMW 530XDAT, BMW 320I convertible, Mini Cooper
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #6
Thanks for reading :)

Yes, I did use washer fluid with antifreeze - but it was a premixed bottle from the local auto-store, so probably too little antifreeze for a non-ICE car. Another experience when driving an EV in winter; all the snow and ice on the bonnet & roof just stays in place, for quite a while. And can suddenly come shooting off throwing you wide awake when tottering along on cruise control! :)

I did use the small Porsche charger at the cabin. I only have 10 amp circuits up there, and like you said - it probably throttles down to 6 amp. The long charging time wasn't helped by the wife switching off the driveway lights circuit in the morning - where the socket for the charger is connected! Did catch that one just in time tho. Also, I did not disable the daily preheat program for 7.00 in the morning that I use for work week. So the car would preheat every morning like you said - probably drawing (quite a lot) on the main batteries. My thinking was that it was ok to get a slight "defrost" of the car once every day - and it wasn't going to be warmer later in the day - so no point in rescheduling.

16 amp at the cabin is unfortunately a no go. That would probably require a new power line all the way from the bottom of the valley - about 8 clicks down - all underground. NOT a cost I'd be willing to take on :). And my cabin is mostly heated by owner felled, cut and stacked local lumber.

There are however 50 kwh chargers at the local store 15 mins away, and a couple of 150 kwh at a gas station (CircleK, former "Statoil") 30 mins away - though the cost on those pr km are equal to premium gasoline - if not more.

Attaching a small clip from the mountain pass (yes, it's not legal to be operating a cellphone without hands-free in Norway either, but if anyone asks - in the words of Shaggy; it wasn't me)

 
Last edited:

Cpoarchy

Well-Known Member
Joined
Nov 19, 2019
Messages
530
Reaction score
294
Location
Kentucky
Vehicles
1999 911, taycan 4s
Country flag
My experience (warm climate) was about 32 degrees f, the other day, (did not preheat), started out in range mode, switched to sport plus to see the sound difference. After switching back to range mode had more miles when I got home than when I left. So... heating up the battery does make a big difference.
 

Mouse House

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 1, 2020
Messages
142
Reaction score
131
Location
Suisse
Vehicles
New Balance 1500 v6
Country flag
5179.jpg


It was a total PITA to get the snow off this thing a couple of days ago and, like you say, as there's no excess heat from the engine any snow and ice you don't remove hangs around forever as you drive about .

Interestingly my GF said the car had 60% charge when she parked it and it was down to 46% after I had dug it out. Do I need to preheat the car? Unfortunately it has stopped talking to the connect app.
 
OP
H@wk

[email protected]

Well-Known Member
First Name
H
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
104
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S, BMW 530XDAT, BMW 320I convertible, Mini Cooper
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #9
Thought I'd post another update on the "Norwegian Winter Experience" this weekend as I know that a lot of US citizens think that Norway is the closest thing to the North Pole that anyone can be crazy enough to live (at least our family in SoCal thinks so) - and experiences made here is a useful indication on how the car may behave in winter where you live (well - all German car manufacturers love to test their cars in Norway, Sweden & Finland, right?) :)

For this weekend's trip I got the 12 year old BMW 530 Xdrive spruced up, i.e. cleaned outside & in, switched out the regular winter tires with a set of studded tires, - topped up all fluids, and while in the engine bay actually cleaned it up (wife thought I was crazy). The reason for all this was that my son and his friends - 4 boys the age of 17 - all football players (the America version of it) - very much wanted to get to the cabin to go downhill skiing. Being athletes they're all on the larger side of a 17 year old - so with them and skis, snowboards, boots and winter gear - the Taycan was pretty much out of the question. Although the Taycan rear seat may seat 3 boys, it has nowhere near the same legroom or headroom as that of the 530. Especially not when driving for close to 4 hours straight. Also, I already have a roof rack & ski box for the 530.

So, driving up again the same road I'd come down about 10 days ago, got me thinking....
Which is the better winter vehicle? The brand new expensive Porsche Grand Tourer, or the rather old BMW Touring? Well....

BMW 530 Xdrive Touring pros:
- plenty of space
- legroom
- headroom
- huge booth
- great comfotable heated seats for long drives
- long roof with roof rack
- big 3 liter diesel engine producing enough heat to thaw the car entirely and heat the cabin plenty (I know, I'm harping on about that heat thing - but lemme tell'ya; try driving for hours in snow, ice, sleet, dirt and grime - and NOT having a functioning window washer! It's a major hazard is what it is!)
- big 3 liter diesel engine producing plenty of torque keeping a good pace on a long haul
- I can top it up in 2 minutes almost anywhere on the road
- I don't have to worry about the dreaded 12volt death - at all!
- it has a timed heater, so whenever I want it to be it's heated, ice free and ready to go
- pretty sporty and on-point handling (BMW knows their game just as well as Porsche)

cons:
- it's an ICE
- it's expensive to fuel
- it takes a while to overtake slower traffic
- it's noisier than the Taycan (a lot)


Porsche Taycan pros:
- lots of power!
- extremely good handling
- great seats and driving comfort
- charging at home & at the cabin costs next to nothing currently

cons:
- it's really only comfortable for 2+2 (barely)
- luggage space is not great
- roof rack costs a fortune (it's a Porsche - come on...)
- 12 volt "bug" could leave me stranded way up here
- timed heater is available - but impacts charging potentially by a lot
- refuelling options are limited and need to be planned some

So for me; when hauling more than the wife and myself around in the arctic winter; I actually prefer the dated BMW. What's more; I actually trust it more up here in the mountain. And that's a rather profound realisation. With the 530 I have space for both a spare tyre, a shovel, an emergency carjack, and a compressor - which I've needed more than once over the years. Sure, I can throw a spare tire and tools in the boot of the Taycan, - and then forget about luggage space. But is that really "grand touring"? And I can produce my own power in the BMW. Or am I putting too much weight on "self sufficiency" when "grand touring"?

I know the comparison is not fair, - one car's a people hauler - the other is more or less a sports car. And then there's the whole ICE vs. EV kind of philosophy - "which side are you really on?"
But still, I think a lot of "us" buying into the Taycan dream did so thinking that this here; this is an EV that may actually replace my other car(s) eventually....

I know I'd much rather prefer to have fun in the Taycan - it's awesome to drive! But when summing up all the factors that need to be covered in actual winter conditions... can a 12 year old BMW actually be preferred?!? I've still to pack up and jam 4 boys in the car and get back home tomorrow.... and they'll be passed out after a day in the slopes - so I will have peace and quiet to mull this over... close to 4 hours of it.... unless someone needs to pee....
 

Petter G

Member
Joined
Oct 25, 2020
Messages
5
Reaction score
13
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan Turbo, BMW X1
Country flag
5179.jpg


It was a total PITA to get the snow off this thing a couple of days ago and, like you say, as there's no excess heat from the engine any snow and ice you don't remove hangs around forever as you drive about .

Interestingly my GF said the car had 60% charge when she parked it and it was down to 46% after I had dug it out. Do I need to preheat the car? Unfortunately it has stopped talking to the connect app.
A cold battery have less capasity than at normal temperature. That might explain the loss from 60 to 46%.

C7FFE042-DD60-4D08-B3E2-25A26A179EB0.jpeg
 

AxelC

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
12
Reaction score
25
Location
Finland
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S
Country flag
Thought I'd post another update on the "Norwegian Winter Experience" this weekend as I know that a lot of US citizens think that Norway is the closest thing to the North Pole that anyone can be crazy enough to live (at least our family in SoCal thinks so) - and experiences made here is a useful indication on how the car may behave in winter where you live (well - all German car manufacturers love to test their cars in Norway, Sweden & Finland, right?) :)

For this weekend's trip I got the 12 year old BMW 530 Xdrive spruced up, i.e. cleaned outside & in, switched out the regular winter tires with a set of studded tires, - topped up all fluids, and while in the engine bay actually cleaned it up (wife thought I was crazy). The reason for all this was that my son and his friends - 4 boys the age of 17 - all football players (the America version of it) - very much wanted to get to the cabin to go downhill skiing. Being athletes they're all on the larger side of a 17 year old - so with them and skis, snowboards, boots and winter gear - the Taycan was pretty much out of the question. Although the Taycan rear seat may seat 3 boys, it has nowhere near the same legroom or headroom as that of the 530. Especially not when driving for close to 4 hours straight. Also, I already have a roof rack & ski box for the 530.

So, driving up again the same road I'd come down about 10 days ago, got me thinking....
Which is the better winter vehicle? The brand new expensive Porsche Grand Tourer, or the rather old BMW Touring? Well....

BMW 530 Xdrive Touring pros:
- plenty of space
- legroom
- headroom
- huge booth
- great comfotable heated seats for long drives
- long roof with roof rack
- big 3 liter diesel engine producing enough heat to thaw the car entirely and heat the cabin plenty (I know, I'm harping on about that heat thing - but lemme tell'ya; try driving for hours in snow, ice, sleet, dirt and grime - and NOT having a functioning window washer! It's a major hazard is what it is!)
- big 3 liter diesel engine producing plenty of torque keeping a good pace on a long haul
- I can top it up in 2 minutes almost anywhere on the road
- I don't have to worry about the dreaded 12volt death - at all!
- it has a timed heater, so whenever I want it to be it's heated, ice free and ready to go
- pretty sporty and on-point handling (BMW knows their game just as well as Porsche)

cons:
- it's an ICE
- it's expensive to fuel
- it takes a while to overtake slower traffic
- it's noisier than the Taycan (a lot)


Porsche Taycan pros:
- lots of power!
- extremely good handling
- great seats and driving comfort
- charging at home & at the cabin costs next to nothing currently

cons:
- it's really only comfortable for 2+2 (barely)
- luggage space is not great
- roof rack costs a fortune (it's a Porsche - come on...)
- 12 volt "bug" could leave me stranded way up here
- timed heater is available - but impacts charging potentially by a lot
- refuelling options are limited and need to be planned some

So for me; when hauling more than the wife and myself around in the arctic winter; I actually prefer the dated BMW. What's more; I actually trust it more up here in the mountain. And that's a rather profound realisation. With the 530 I have space for both a spare tyre, a shovel, an emergency carjack, and a compressor - which I've needed more than once over the years. Sure, I can throw a spare tire and tools in the boot of the Taycan, - and then forget about luggage space. But is that really "grand touring"? And I can produce my own power in the BMW. Or am I putting too much weight on "self sufficiency" when "grand touring"?

I know the comparison is not fair, - one car's a people hauler - the other is more or less a sports car. And then there's the whole ICE vs. EV kind of philosophy - "which side are you really on?"
But still, I think a lot of "us" buying into the Taycan dream did so thinking that this here; this is an EV that may actually replace my other car(s) eventually....

I know I'd much rather prefer to have fun in the Taycan - it's awesome to drive! But when summing up all the factors that need to be covered in actual winter conditions... can a 12 year old BMW actually be preferred?!? I've still to pack up and jam 4 boys in the car and get back home tomorrow.... and they'll be passed out after a day in the slopes - so I will have peace and quiet to mull this over... close to 4 hours of it.... unless someone needs to pee....
Thanks @[email protected] for a spot on comparison! I’ll be driving with my 4s+ about 900 kilometers up to Finnish Lapland for New Year, and will be reporting my trip here when (if 😱) we get to the cabin. I had the current 530d model (G31) previously, so it will be interesting to compare the experience. With six persons, we are anyway going there with two cars, so in case it goes vey wrong (dead 12v or similar), my wife can at least evacuate the kids to her warm ICE Audi and leave me and the skis in freezing Taycan. 😄
 
OP
H@wk

[email protected]

Well-Known Member
First Name
H
Joined
Mar 31, 2020
Messages
65
Reaction score
104
Location
Norway
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S, BMW 530XDAT, BMW 320I convertible, Mini Cooper
Country flag
  • Thread starter
  • Thread Starter
  • #12
Best of luck on your trip @AxelC !
 

Tonytones

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 21, 2020
Messages
96
Reaction score
55
Location
Quebec
Vehicles
Taycan 4S; Volvo xc90; Audi R8
Country flag
Thanks @[email protected] for a spot on comparison! I’ll be driving with my 4s+ about 900 kilometers up to Finnish Lapland for New Year, and will be reporting my trip here when (if 😱) we get to the cabin. I had the current 530d model (G31) previously, so it will be interesting to compare the experience. With six persons, we are anyway going there with two cars, so in case it goes vey wrong (dead 12v or similar), my wife can at least evacuate the kids to her warm ICE Audi and leave me and the skis in freezing Taycan. 😄
Looking forward to your report!
Have fun and enjoy winter!
ps. It would be appreciated if you could keep track of the consumption depending on battery temp/outside temp and avg speed/AC temp.
Thanks!
 

AxelC

Member
Joined
Aug 28, 2020
Messages
12
Reaction score
25
Location
Finland
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan 4S
Country flag
Looking forward to your report!
Have fun and enjoy winter!
ps. It would be appreciated if you could keep track of the consumption depending on battery temp/outside temp and avg speed/AC temp.
Thanks!
Will do! 👍
 

Advertisement





 


Advertisement
Top