submatrix

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For a moment I thought @legataycan 's high initial consumption might be due to not having the heat pump, but those are standard in the US and @submatrix has it too. It therefore is a matter of the initial measurements still looking for proper calibration?
Are you saying you don't have the same issue? I don't look at my consumption every short drive but I believe it regularly starts out in the 400s-500s before settling down into the 300s.

I also only have 700 miles so maybe my regen braking isn't fully activated yet? I remember reading about that.
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Kingske

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Are you saying you don't have the same issue? I don't look at my consumption every short drive but I believe it regularly starts out in the 400s-500s before settling down into the 300s.

I also only have 700 miles so maybe my regen braking isn't fully activated yet? I remember reading about that.
I admit that I have not systematically looked at my early consumption numbers. Regen is indeed likely to make a difference as it kicks in at some point between 500 and 1000 miles. Mine started around 600 miles in and did make a difference.
 

submatrix

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I admit that I have not systematically looked at my early consumption numbers. Regen is indeed likely to make a difference as it kicks in at some point between 500 and 1000 miles. Mine started around 600 miles in and did make a difference.
I usually drive with Auto recup on and it definitely does slow the car down, so I suppose that means it's on and active and I am out of the break-in period?
 

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thanks so much for this its super helpful. The first few miles of my trips always start with ridiculously high consumption but I assume this is because I use air con and the car is conditioning.
I live slightly up a mountain. At the bottom, I have -43kWh/100km. But posted consumption numbers include going back up.

When you drive off level or even up the mountain, you start with high consumption numbers and it feels harder/longer to get to lower consumption numbers - but I always get them, if I drive "economically"! :like:

So to be clear, in both of your examples above you were using eco plus air conditioning?

I will try that and see how it goes. I’m planning on doing some thorough tests today.
I always drive in Normal mode with Eco A/C. Please keep us posted on your test results. :)
 

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For a moment I thought @legataycan 's high initial consumption might be due to not having the heat pump, but those are standard in the US and @submatrix has it too. It therefore is a matter of the initial measurements still looking for proper calibration?
I start to wonder, because my recup worked pretty much from day one. But I also remember that the second day I was taking out my new baby, I was already trying out launch controls. I also did a few proper breaking tests, to get a feel for it, if I need it. Some drivers here are insane! :swear:
 

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I usually drive with Auto recup on and it definitely does slow the car down, so I suppose that means it's on and active and I am out of the break-in period?
If you really want to get low consumption values:
  1. switch off all recup options
  2. gentle steady acceleration particularly uphill
  3. let the car roll in traffic as much as possible
For me, that makes all the difference. I was looking forward to auto recup options, but it breaks way too early too hard, it does not use the space effectively to lower the consumption.
 

submatrix

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If you really want to get low consumption values:
  1. switch off all recup options
  2. gentle steady acceleration particularly uphill
  3. let the car roll in traffic as much as possible
For me, that makes all the difference. I was looking forward to auto recup options, but it breaks way too early too hard, it does not use the space effectively to lower the consumption.
Thanks, yeah I realize that optimizing your braking with recup off is the most optimal. TBH I'm not really concerned with my consumption for city driving, it's when I go on road trips and am driving long distances on freeways that it will really matter.
 

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Yesterday was a highway day. Guesstimate had me at 223 miles @ 85%. I drove a total of 154.3 miles and had 41 miles of range when I parked. That's about 195 miles (Maybe, if I was lucky).

This was driving almost all Tollway and highway. Speeds up to 100 and cruising at 85-95. A/C on to 70, seat ventilation on.
 

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If you really want to get low consumption values:
  1. switch off all recup options
  2. gentle steady acceleration particularly uphill
  3. let the car roll in traffic as much as possible
For me, that makes all the difference. I was looking forward to auto recup options, but it breaks way too early too hard, it does not use the space effectively to lower the consumption.
makes sense given that the auto recup works just like adaptive cruise control (which in my experience tends to brake earlier and harder than I’d want in traffic)
 

Damond

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Ok. It is time to report on the results of driving a 2021 Taycan 4S with the 21" Mission e wheels and the 93.4 kWh Performance Plus Battery (83.7 kWh usable) here in the desert Southwest.

This is both a driving range and charging infrastructure story. Both are critical to "enjoying" driving long distances in a Taycan 4S.

During the week of 19 July through 26 July, I and a fellow Porsche Club of America - Southern Arizona Region (PCA-SAR) made 9 preplanned documented charging-station to charging-station test trips. We charged/attempted to charge 18 times. Thirteen of these charging/charging attempts were made at Public Charging Network (PCN) chargers. Five of the chargings were made using a Porsche Mobile Charger Connect (PMCC) hooked up to a 240 VAC 14-50 receptacle protected by a dual pole 50 amp breaker. This was done while the Taycan 4S was parked in a single car garage located in Tucson Arizona.

Our test trips included driving on I-8 and I-10 at 75-84 mph. They were from Marana AZ to Dateland AZ & back (331 miles roundtrip), and from Marana AZ to Quartzite AZ/Blythe CA (531 miles roundtrip). Ambient temperatures ranged from 105F to 115F. Air Conditioning was set to automatic and 74F. Regen off - there were no significant up & downhills in each trip; i.e., relatively flat between charging stations. All but one test trip was done in Normal drive mode.

We recorded the kWh/100 miles and SOC% along with the battery and ambient temperatures during the test trips. When charging we recorded the starting & finishing SOC%, starting charging rates, charging time, and kWh charged . Here's the summary of the results:

Ranges based on the average kWh/100 miles between 39-41.[calculated and read from the Tube 3 Trip data screens]:
100% SOC down to 10% SOC-193 to 184 miles, and 85% SOC down to 10% SOC - 161-153 miles. The two ranges represented what one would normally drive when charging at home using the PMCC to 100% SOC, and 85% SOC when charging at a PCN charger. We charged/attempted to charge 10 times at Electrify America (EA) chargers, 2 times at ChargePoint chargers, and once at a EVgo charger.

NOTE: When driving, at 15% SOC the yellow range warning comes on and the gas pump symbol turns yellow. As one gets below 10% SOC, the gas pump symbol turns red. A 10% SOC leaves between 20 & 30 miles before the car stops dead. This reserve depends on your kWh/100 miles burn rate when driving the last 10%; i.e., how fast you drive and other burn rate factors. (we didn't try this!). Taycan also likes to start shutting down things when the SOC% goes below 10%; like the A/C.

Charging Infrastructure:
Electrify America (EA) is the only game in town If one wants to drive a Taycan 4S from Tucson or Phoenix AZ to either San Diego via I-8 & Dateland, Los Angeles via I-10 & Quartzite; and even the only route to Las Vegas via Quartzite, and Needles via I-10/AZ95/US95/I-11.

Both Quartzite and Dateland are 100 miles & 113 miles, respectively from the nearest EA 4 charger stations. These are the EA charging stations at Casa Grande for Dateland, and Buckeye AZ for Quartzite. They all have only 2 ea 150 kW and 2 ea 350 kW chargers. If none of the chargers work at Dateland, and given the less than 200 mile range of the Taycan 4S, it is not possible to drive back to the charging station at Casa Grande, nor make it safely & comfortably the 66 miles to the next EA charging station in Yuma. Twice in a 3 week period, all the EA chargers at Dateland were reported by the EA iPhone app as being "unavailable".

Quartzite is close to being in the same situation, except there are 2 ea 50 kW chargers in Blythe CA, 22 miles west of Quartzite on I-10. We know because despite checking 3 times on the EA iPhone app the status of chargers at Quartzite, we arrived and tried to use all 4 chargers with all 4 chargers failing to even start. Each announced that they had a Charger Error. We were actually on the phone with EA Support when the 4th charger failed. We had to report to the Support person what the error codes were!

We ended up in Blythe CA using the both 50 kW ChargePoint chargers. One quit after charging 21 minutes! We used the second one for 25 minutes, and decided to head back to Buckeye with a 61%SOC.

We drove back to Buckeye from Blythe using Range drive mode and at 65 mph to make sure we could make it on a 61% SOC. Not fun on 75 mph speed limit I-10 and its truck traffic. We did so with the A/C at 78F and ECO! Arrived with a 17% SOC.

Additionally, 4 times when charging at EA 350 kW chargers, we got less than the full starting charging rate expected when the starting SOC was 30-35%. We got 67-80 kW on the 350 kWs. On a EA 150 kW charger we got only 17 kW. Clearly not what it should have been.

Five of the successful chargings were done when the temperatures were above 100F. The charging at Dateland was done when it was 108F. Charging stations at Dateland, Buckeye, and Quartzite had all experienced temperatures of 115F during the week we did the tests.

None of the chargers used were covered.

Findings & Conclusions:

Range: When it is as hot as it gets here in the desert southwest, a Taycan 4S can't be depended on to make even 200 miles on a 100% SOC down to a 10% SOC charge It definitely can't make even 165 miles on a 85% SOC down to a 10% SOC charge. That's when driving 75-85 mph on 75 mph speed limit interstates, and its 105-115F here in the desert Southwest between mid-June and mid-September! Given these driving ranges no one should attempt to drive charging station to charging station legs of more than 180 miles even when starting out with a 100% SOC.

Charging Infrastructure: The current locations of EA charging stations, and the UNreliability of the EA chargers themselves are woefully inadequate to support long distance driving a Taycan 4S from Tucson/Phoenix to San Diego, Los Angeles, and Las Vegas. Note: One cannot drive from Tucson/Phoenix to Las Vegas via the shorter Wickenburg-Kingman route because the leg from Phoenix to Kingman is 203 miles. EA has no charging stations in Wickenburg. In fact no one except Tesla has charging stations in Wickenburg.

Conclusion. Because of the distance between human civilization along I-8 and I-10 west of Tucson/Phoenix, it will be difficult to increase the number of charging station locations. Increasing the reliability of the existing chargers and/or increasing the number of chargers per location is the only way to improve the charging infrastructure.

The quickest way to do this is for non-Tesla EVs to be able to use Tesla Superchargers. Something that Elon Musk seems willing to do according to the mid-August episode of Motorweek. There are 7-10 Superchargers at the numerous locations along I-8 and I-10 west of Tucson and Phoenix. There's even a Tesla Supercharger location in Wickenburg. This makes it possible to drive from Tucson/Phoenix to Las Vegas along the 410 mile short route :)

Bottom Line: A Taycan 4S is only as good as its charging infrastructure, And currently that charging infrastructure is not good enough for Taycans or any EVs with less than a 200 mile driving range and when driven here in the desert Southwest during the summertime heat!
 

JimBob

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Interesting report. Haven't been able to run a test at your high temps as we don't get temps that high here. Thank goodness. Don't know how people can live there. And your speeds are higher than speed limits I am allowed. From your results it appears that high temps hit range as much as low temps and maybe with a little faster falloff. Remain convinced that maximum range at highway speeds occurs around 68F where you can get a little more than 300 miles.
 

XLR82XS

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If 105-115F ambient really effects range that much than how much of a range hit is there in Maine in February?
 

Damond

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Probably the same effect. The battery temperature management system has to heat the battery to 85F when its below 50F just as the system has to run the battery heat pump to cool the battery when it is over 95F. During one charging at a Electrify America station here in Tucson, when it was only 95F, we charged on a 350 kW charger from 10% to 85% in 25 minutes. The starting charge rate was 270 kW! It finished at 40 kW. The battery temperature was 120F when I finished charging. I drove it 15 miles from the EA charging station in Marana to my house. It normally takes about 5% SOC. It took 8% and had a 45 kWh/100 miles burn rate showing in the Tube 3, Trip, Since Charging screen. When I got home the battery temp was down to 100F. The difference was in cooling the battery.

I have seen where it is suggested that when you are charging at home, you run the charger when it is below 50F just to warm up the battery. Similarly, if it is over 100F run the charger so the battery gets cooled, before driving off...doesn't mean you run the PreCool/Preheat unless you also want the cabin temperature to be warm/cool. My garage temperature sometimes hits 105F when it has been 115F outside temperature. Happened in mid-June 🥵
 

JimBob

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If 105-115F ambient really effects range that much than how much of a range hit is there in Maine in February?
This one is tested and I think it is accurate.

From optimum range at 68F to 16.3F the hit to range is 30% at highway speeds (~70mph), It's not a linear decline. The battery appears to be slower to recover from cold temps than from say 50F to 68F where it ramps quickly. But linear is a rough approximation.
 
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