Damond

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Interesting report. Haven't been able to run a test at your high temps as we don't get temps that high here. Thank goodness. Don't know how people can live there. And your speeds are higher than speed limits I am allowed. From your results it appears that high temps hit range as much as low temps and maybe with a little faster falloff. Remain convinced that maximum range at highway speeds occurs around 68F where you can get a little more than 300 miles.
As long as you don't need to run the A/C all the time and not at ECO, and don't need to cool the battery at the same time, and not drive in the mountains, you can get the range you mention.

It is a desert here...means it does get hot AND there aren't a lot of human habitations along our Interstates that pass through our deserts. Not a lot of places to put charging stations, plus since the chargers (and their associated transformers) sit out in the blazing sun on asphalt parking lots/pads that get up to 160F, as an engineer, I can see that their reliability suffers. There are times when my iPhone and iPad tell me they are too hot to work when I have left them lie on my car dash here.

I have been told that Teslas run the cabin A/C to keep the cabin temperature from getting above 105F to make sure their large touch screen display work. Means that when you park here or Las Vegas uncovered you can run down your battery just keeping the cabin at 105F when it is 115F! A friend of mine just told me her Prius got up to over 120F yesterday when she shopped at a Costco in Henderson (Las Vegas).
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Damond

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This one is tested and I think it is accurate.

From optimum range at 68F to 16.3F the hit to range is 30% at highway speeds (~70mph), It's not a linear decline. The battery appears to be slower to recover from cold temps than from say 50F to 68F where it ramps quickly. But linear is a rough approximation.
You are correct. Lithium ion batteries like it warm, circa 83F to charge. They can discharge at up to 131F (55C). Folks who run track in their Taycans found out that at 132F the Taycan lowers the performance of the car until the battery cools down.
 

XLR82XS

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Well then I consider myself lucky with operating temperatures consistent throughout the year where I live. Battery temperature stays between 80-90F and I have only seen it reach ~105F when DC charging in summer with 95F ambient.
 

kort

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I snipped what I am not commenting on

Ranges based on the average kWh/100 miles between 39-41.[calculated and read from the Tube 3 Trip data screens]:
100% SOC down to 10% SOC-193 to 184 miles, and 85% SOC down to 10% SOC - 161-153 miles. The two ranges represented what one would normally drive when charging at home using the PMCC to 100% SOC, and 85% SOC when charging at a PCN charger. We charged/attempted to charge 10 times at Electrify America (EA) chargers, 2 times at ChargePoint chargers, and once at a EVgo charger.
I have done a bit better on my similar trips ,up to 220 or so from 100% soc

Additionally, 4 times when charging at EA 350 kW chargers, we got less than the full starting charging rate expected when the starting SOC was 30-35%. We got 67-80 kW on the 350 kWs. On a EA 150 kW charger we got only 17 kW. Clearly not what it should have been.
what you've encountered is more the norm than not, I can count on my hands the times that I've gotten anything close to 200 on a 35kw unit and a few times I've been up to 120+ on a 150 unit. I had 150 unit deliver about 26kw until it crapped out and I moved to an adjacent unit.

The quickest way to do this is for non-Tesla EVs to be able to use Tesla Superchargers. Something that Elon Musk seems willing to do according to the mid-August episode of Motorweek. There are 7-10 Superchargers at the numerous locations along I-8 and I-10 west of Tucson and Phoenix. There's even a Tesla Supercharger location in Wickenburg. This makes it possible to drive from Tucson/Phoenix to Las Vegas along the 410 mile short route :)
I really wouldn't get overly excited about this "elonism" while opening up his network in europe is easy to do here in the US it would involve either creating adaptors or massive hardware changes. it probably is not financially viable to retrofit the superchargers and adaptors would be the only possible way.

Bottom Line: A Taycan 4S is only as good as its charging infrastructure, And currently that charging infrastructure is not good enough for Taycans or any EVs with less than a 200 mile driving range and when driven here in the desert Southwest during the summertime heat!
exactomundo.
if I cannot depend on being able to get a reliable charge while on long distance trips the car's viability is severely diminished. If I wanted an EV to just get me around town there are far less costly EVs available.
porsche is really tarnishing their brand with the software flubs and the unreliability of the charging.
 

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Interesting report. Haven't been able to run a test at your high temps as we don't get temps that high here. Thank goodness. Don't know how people can live there. And your speeds are higher than speed limits I am allowed. From your results it appears that high temps hit range as much as low temps and maybe with a little faster falloff. Remain convinced that maximum range at highway speeds occurs around 68F where you can get a little more than 300 miles.

I'm out of El Paso in West Texas, about 4 and half hours east of Tucson, and have made the drive to Phoenix a few times in my 4S on the EA network along I-10.

I think one of the major things impacting range on the trip above was going above 80mph for any stretch. I've noticed in my car, the efficiency really drops off when going above 75 (which is the speed limit throughout NM and Arizona), and when you combine that with the heat, it really does a number on the efficiency. My 4S is commuted 40 miles each way on I-10, and even in the hot summer months where my car charges at work in the 110 degree sun, my car gives me ranges over 250 miles pretty consistently. Though in our mild winters it increases closer to 280. I road tripped it to Phoenix in late July, was able to get accurate range, but I also kept it at the speed limit and drive it in eco with AC at 73. I'm not sure why anyone would drive it on the interstate without it in eco for long haul trips.

My real issue with range anxiety comes from the EA network. I had a successful trip last month, but there wasn't a station along the I-10 corridor that wasn't having an issue with at least one of the chargers. A year earlier I took it across Texas to Houston and had to stay the night in the middle of nowhere Junction, Texas, using a level 2 charger because their EA station was toast. I feel like as infrastructure for EVs continues to grow, this will get better and better, but right now travelling in an EV that isn't a Tesla is still sort of a harrowing experience.
 

riburn3

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exactomundo.
if I cannot depend on being able to get a reliable charge while on long distance trips the car's viability is severely diminished. If I wanted an EV to just get me around town there are far less costly EVs available.
porsche is really tarnishing their brand with the software flubs and the unreliability of the charging.
This is pretty much the reason my garage went from two full EV's to one EV (my Taycan), and my wife now has a Cayenne E-hybrid. For her day to day, she hardly ever needs the gas engine, but it's nice having a vehicle we can road trip without fear of a charging station being down. I personally am a big fan of the EV road trip, and it's important to demonstrate it can be done, but until it becomes more reliable, EVs not named Tesla are on weaker footing. Folks laughed initially at Elon for investing in his charging network, but it remains a huge draw for potential buyers, even if there's a decent chance you never even use one.

Thankfully, it looks like the next few years is going to get a bit better with the government poised to dump billions in charging infrastructure, and several large business jockeying for them to put chargers in their stations.
 

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If 105-115F ambient really effects range that much than how much of a range hit is there in Maine in February?
I have up to 36°C (97°F) with over 90% humidity, and it does not affect range much, unless you run the A/C not in ECO mode and on full blast.
 

Damond

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I have up to 36°C (97°F) with over 90% humidity, and it does not affect range much, unless you run the A/C not in ECO mode and on full blast.
feye,
We tried ECO mode for a very short time. It's not what we could comfortably stand, when it was 115F. Also, the Taycan 4S we drove had the panoramic glass roof which despite its "insulation" was hot to the touch. We normally set the A/C at 74F. On the trip to Dateland, we had a rear seat passenger. ECO didn't cut it for her even though we had the A/C for both front and rear seats.

We even were forced to use ECO because of using Range drive mode. We also drove at 65 mph; all in order to conserve battery on our 124 mile drive from Blythe CA back to Buckeye AZ. Can't say it was very comfortable in the cabin! Our metrics for driving a Taycan were: safety, comfort, and the ability to drive it like a Porsche can be driven. The only one satisfied on that drive back to Buckeye was maybe safety; but then again being passed on the left by semis doing 75 mph at times didn't feel safe!
Damond
 

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If you really want to get low consumption values:
  1. switch off all recup options
  2. gentle steady acceleration particularly uphill
  3. let the car roll in traffic as much as possible
For me, that makes all the difference. I was looking forward to auto recup options, but it breaks way too early too hard, it does not use the space effectively to lower the consumption.
This post and others on the forum indicate that to maximize range, recuperation should be disabled. Why does enabling recuperation reduce range? I'm new to electric vehicles. I thought recuperation/regeneration was supposed to increase battery charge and range, not reduce it.
 

submatrix

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This post and others on the forum indicate that to maximize range, recuperation should be disabled. Why does enabling recuperation reduce range? I'm new to electric vehicles. I thought recuperation/regeneration was supposed to increase battery charge and range, not reduce it.
It only increases range in cases where you would otherwise be using the physical brakes, because in that case you're slowing down the car without getting any energy back (it's dissipated as heat mainly). The most efficient is coasting, because the car just rolls without you having to expend any energy from the battery. However, this implies that you have to drive in such a way that you can maximize coasting.

Put another way, there's no difference in battery usage between holding the car at 70mph for 100 miles with recuperation on or off. In both cases, you never actually use recuperation since you are constantly expending energy to move the car forward. The difference comes when you try to slow down. Do you coast to a stop, or do you use recuperation to slow down? If the former, then that implies you take your foot off the pedal much earlier in order to coast to that stop. If the latter, you are using energy from the battery for longer before ultimately slowing the car down with recup.
 

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The difference comes when you try to slow down. Do you coast to a stop, or do you use recuperation to slow down? If the former, then that implies you take your foot off the pedal much earlier in order to coast to that stop. If the latter, you are using energy from the battery for longer before ultimately slowing the car down with recup.
Thanks for your reply.

I understand that if a driver enables recuperation and alters his driving habits such that he brakes more often with recuperation on than he would if recuperation was off, then battery range would be decreased. But if braking habits/use are the same with recuperation enabled, does enabling recuperation by itself reduce battery range?

I'm trying to understand the posts that suggest turning recuperation off to maximize range in a Taycan.
 

submatrix

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Thanks for your reply.

I understand that if a driver enables recuperation and alters his driving habits such that he brakes more often with recuperation on than he would if recuperation was off, then battery range would be decreased. But if braking habits/use are the same with recuperation enabled, does enabling recuperation by itself reduce battery range?

I'm trying to understand the posts that suggest turning recuperation off to maximize range in a Taycan.
I don't believe so. But the thing is: if you drive with recuperation off for a while, and try to optimize range, you will naturally get used to letting off the pedal earlier in order to coast more. If you literally always have your foot on either the go/brake pedal, then I don't believe having recup on/off makes much difference.

FWIW, I drive with Auto on when driving around town, and then for road trips (where range really matters) I drive with Range mode and recup off. The difference with recup on/off when driving around town, over several days/short trips, probably won't be noticeable either way. I use Auto because I value more of a "one pedal driving feel" when in traffic or driving between stop signs/stop lights. And then when on the freeway, Auto will automatically reduce/remove all recup if there's no one in front of you (by using sensors to detect).
 

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FWIW, I drive with Auto on when driving around town, and then for road trips (where range really matters) I drive with Range mode and recup off.
The reason you drive with recup off during road trips is you don't want any battery energy depleted for braking/deceleration and/or it helps prompt you to go easier on the brake than you would if recup was on? Or, on road trips you don't believe that recup actually provides a net battery charge increase?
 

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The reason you drive with recup off during road trips is you don't want any battery energy depleted for braking/deceleration and/or it helps prompt you to go easier on the brake than you would if recup was on? Or, on road trips you don't believe that recup actually provides a net battery charge increase?
Remember that recup is just a way to try and gain back some of the energy that would be lost to braking. On a road trip, where I'm basically cruising on a freeway for hours with basically no slowing down, brakes will almost never be used, whether physical or regenerative.

With recup on, whenever you take the foot off the go pedal, the car WILL slow down. If you wanted the car to slow down anyway, then recup is not losing you anything. However, if you slow down any more than you wanted, then you are expending more energy to get back up to speed than if you had not recuped in the first place, and instead had coasted.

Does that make sense?

PS Range mode turns off recup by default, which tells you something about what Porsche thinks is most efficient. Additionally, I bet this helps ACC (which I use liberally on road trips) function more efficiently, because it doesn't ever have to accelerate the car to make up for speed lost to recup.
 

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Remember that recup is just a way to try and gain back some of the energy that would be lost to braking. On a road trip, where I'm basically cruising on a freeway for hours with basically no slowing down, brakes will almost never be used, whether physical or regenerative.

With recup on, whenever you take the foot off the go pedal, the car WILL slow down. If you wanted the car to slow down anyway, then recup is not losing you anything. However, if you slow down any more than you wanted, then you are expending more energy to get back up to speed than if you had not recuped in the first place, and instead had coasted.

Does that make sense?

PS Range mode turns off recup by default, which tells you something about what Porsche thinks is most efficient. Additionally, I bet this helps ACC (which I use liberally on road trips) function more efficiently, because it doesn't ever have to accelerate the car to make up for speed lost to recup.
I use the recup in local traffic, red light to red light. On the road I turn it off
 
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