Taycan Brakes fail in wet conditions - NHTSA complaint March 2, 2023

[Pouria]

I’ve had this happen to me on multiple occasions when my 2022 4S CT has been parked in the rain over night. It simply does not engage the physical brakes the first few times. And since regen isn’t activated at cold start… scary…Absolutely mind blowing. If you break hard a few times you can feel the discs engage and at some point regen is also activated and then everything works perfectly.

This is now our morning routine after rain and car being left outside - break hard a couple of times leaving the driveway to make sure the brakes work as intended before we get to the "faster" road 200 meters away.

It always works as intended if dry, no matter cold or warm weather.

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[TDinDC]

I’ve had this happen to me on multiple occasions when my 2022 4S CT has been parked in the rain over night. It simply does not engage the physical brakes the first few times. And since regen isn’t activated at cold start… scary…Absolutely mind blowing. If you break hard a few times you can feel the discs engage and at some point regen is also activated and then everything works perfectly.

This is now our morning routine after rain and car being left outside - break hard a couple of times leaving the driveway to make sure the brakes work as intended before we get to the "faster" road 200 meters away.

It always works as intended if dry, no matter cold or warm weather.

What kind of brakes do you have?

I wonder whether the result is different (or exacerbated) based on which braking system you have? I doubt it, but just haven't seen this variable considered.

 

[Pouria]

What kind of brakes do you have?

I wonder whether the result is different (or exacerbated) based on which braking system you have? I doubt it, but just haven't seen this variable considered.

PSCB - The surface coated ones.

 

[bluegrassvroom]

He answered that! {snip}

What he said

Also, on top of that, add the (probably somewhat naïve) belief that it's a programming error that they have a fix for "right around the corner" - i never thought it would go on this long. If I knew right this sec this would never get fixed, I'd probably get rid of the car - BUT - as TDinDC said - " Does he sell a car that he thinks is so defective that he is unwilling to drive to an innocent party? "

I don't see many options.

 

[TDinDC]

Neil, are yours PCSBs?

See: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/pscb-brakes.11169/post-163765

 

[Archimedes]

What he said

Also, on top of that, add the (probably somewhat naïve) belief that it's a programming error that they have a fix for "right around the corner" - i never thought it would go on this long. If I knew right this sec this would never get fixed, I'd probably get rid of the car - BUT - as TDinDC said - " Does he sell a car that he thinks is so defective that he is unwilling to drive to an innocent party? "

I don't see many options.

Pursue a lemon law claim against Porsche and force a buyback. You get paid, you don’t sell it to a third party, and the title gets branded so that any future buyer is aware of the issue.

 

[bluegrassvroom]

Pursue a lemon law claim against Porsche and force a buyback. You get paid, you don’t sell it to a third party, and the title gets branded so that any future buyer is aware of the issue.

i'd love to avoid that but i may have no other recourse. i'll start looking into this thanks for the idea

 

[TDinDC]

Lemon Laws are a state by state issue, and not everyone benefits from the protections afforded to residents of California. While I cannot vouch for accuracy, here is information on lemon law in KY: https://home.army.mil/knox/application/files/9115/6623/5547/KY_LL.pdf

 

[bluegrassvroom]

Neil, are yours PCSBs?

See: https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/pscb-brakes.11169/post-163765

mine are, yes. my issue seems to be a little different than his - mine'll happen on a warm 80 degree rainy day - his seems to be centered around the temperature

I think in my other post - https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/periodic-spongy-brakes-that-dont-stop-if-i-die-please-have-my-family-sue-porsche.9048/

there were several people with my issue with every type of break. I think it's a programming issue coupled with some sensor in the wheel well (Porsche service told me about the sensors) that's not having the brakes apply correctly - since the brakes i guess are technically brake by wire, the pressure applied through the brake pedal goes into the processors and they determine how much regen and how much mechanical braking to apply - and they simply fail during these times - the system doesn't tell the brakes to apply. It's not that they're slipping or catching - the regen isn't doing anything, and for some reason the mechanical brakes aren't being applied like they should be

 

[DerekS]

I just drove to an appointment in heavy rain. Brakes worked as they always do. If I’d have given more than 1/3 pedal I’d have pulled over 1G of braking power.

I’m on the regular steel brakes.

 

[TDinDC]

FWIW (which isn't much since I haven't experienced any problems), I have PCCBs and have driven in heavy rain in all temperatures, and I have never once felt the least hesitation at any time from the very first braking application of the drive. In fact, these brakes seem to be less impacted by post car wash drive aways than the ones on my 911, which are standard brakes.

 

[Archimedes]

FWIW (which isn't much since I haven't experienced any problems), I have PCCBs and have driven in heavy rain in all temperatures, and I have never once felt the least hesitation at any time from the very first braking application of the drive. In fact, these brakes seem to be less impacted by post car wash drive aways than the ones on my 911, which are standard brakes.

I have PSCBs and my experience has been the same. But I’m going to purposely do some more rain driving during the coming storms and see if I can trigger it.

 

[TDinDC]

I have PSCBs and my experience has been the same. But I’m going to purposely do some more rain driving during the coming storms and see if I can trigger it.

From what my daughter is relaying from Berkeley at the moment, now would be your moment to shine for this testing!

 

[whitex]

I have PSCB's and haven't experienced what I read described here to date, but I've only had the car for a less than a month and less than 4K miles. However, I have experienced something like this on different Tesla Model S'es (all standard iron brakes) - it would happen whenever driving in a cold rain on highways late at night where I could pretty much do highway entry to exit with just regen (it's easy to know this with a Tesla, mechanical brakes are only engaged by the brake pedal, so if you didn't touch it, they were not used). On more than one occasion, when exiting the highway, the very first braking required significantly more application of the brake pedal. At first it was a bit unnerving, but then I realized the car will still stop, just requires heavier brake application. I assume it's water getting in between the rotors and the pads. This is not the same feeling brake fade due to overheated braked, where even pushing the brake all the way down has limited braking power.

I have experienced a different brake feel on the Taycan when the regen is off or limited, either first drive after long parking, or cold soaked battery. As good a job as Porsche has done with the blending, I can absolutely tell when regen is disabled, but it doesn't feel unsafe, at least to me.

 

[whitex]

I also suspect the in cold weather, water on rotors actually ices over, which is why it takes a decent amount or braking to clear. Perhaps Porsche is actually monitoring the brakes temperature and purposefully disables regen when rotors fall under 0C/32F (or similar threshold) to clear the braked on the next braking event?

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