Taycan : Braking for more 🤓🤔 -- How the Taycan gets by without a larger brake system—thanks to recuperation

[wurzitup]

I noticed something interesting the other day..... the lift off recuperation in Sport mode is much milder than in Normal mode. I don't drive in Sport mode much... but it was definitely much less recuperation that I'm used to.

Sponsored

 

[kwanyu]

I am not surprised, what with weight transfer on a 50:50 weight distribution car it is natural to use front brakes more than rear, it could easily be more.
Usually bigger discs and calipers are used at the front on any car.

I have often noted that I haven’t felt 4WD necessary on any car until the EV and entirely because of this.

I don’t know how they deal with it on the RWD, maybe the system uses only braking at the rear as long as locking isn’t close, so only using the fronts for heavy braking but maybe it uses the discs and pads all the time.

I think what RWD blending strategy expressed in this chart would be something like this red curve. In other words, you'd have to brake with less input to recoup the same amount of kinetic energy. It'll be interesting to draw this chart whether the car is in 1st or 2nd gear. I suspect there should be a DC shift in the curve as a function of the gear ratio.

 

[whitex]

The cast iron discs will get rust on and that is why regenerative braking is off for the first mile or so of a journey, allowing the pads to clean up the discs.

Also, according to the OP linked article "The vehicle (Taycan) brakes at regular intervals using the hydraulic system only, and without the electric motors, to remove dirt from the discs. "

 

[Clod Reed]

Also, according to the OP linked article "The vehicle (Taycan) brakes at regular intervals using the hydraulic system only, and without the electric motors, to remove dirt from the discs. "

Where does it say all of the above ….just wondering? including the first mile bit

 

[WuffvonTrips]

I noticed something interesting the other day..... the lift off recuperation in Sport mode is much milder than in Normal mode. I don't drive in Sport mode much... but it was definitely much less recuperation that I'm used to.

Interesting indeed- I can't say I'd noticed but will try and remember to pay more attention next time I switch to Sport.
Incidentally, it seems to me a little contradictory of Porsche to emphasise that- unlike other manufacturers- they've "tuned" the system to coast, to get maximum efficiency- yet when switching to Sport and Sport+, the car automatically activates lift-off recuperation.

 

[W1NGE]

It's off on my car in the first mile or so. I have a steep hill near my home I go down every morning. The regen meter hardly registers anything. Later in the day that same hill shows significant regen.

If you press the recuperation button within first mile it will become active. Not sure if this changed after uPdate but I've noticed it lately and became an automatic thing for me to do due to ice and snow on the ground.

I've also noticed that with the cold weather < 3C that even in Range drive mode that both motors provide traction and recuperation at speeds < 40 mph. Plays havoc with range assumptions.

 

[charliemathilde]

The surface coating is totally unnecessary, but it is nice. It cuts back on rust and brake dust. the brakes stay relatively cleaner without paying mega bucks for ceramics

 

[whitex]

Where does it say all of the above ….just wondering? including the first mile bit

The first mile bit is in the owner's manual IIRC.

 

[whitex]

If you press the recuperation button within first mile it will become active. Not sure if this changed after uPdate but I've noticed it lately and became an automatic thing for me to do due to ice and snow on the ground.

Hmmm... With Teslas I turn off regen (automatic recuperation equivalent) in ice and snow, exactly for traction reasons (so that when I let off the accelerator it doesn't start slowing down, especially undesirable while taking turns on low friction surfaces). Of course that means no regen at all (ok, there is a little as there is only "low" but no "off" setting), even when I would like it. I assume on the Taycan I can turn off automatic recuperation but it will automatically regen when I press the brake pedal.

 

[whitex]

Incidentally, it seems to me a little contradictory of Porsche to emphasise that- unlike other manufacturers- they've "tuned" the system to coast, to get maximum efficiency- yet when switching to Sport and Sport+, the car automatically activates lift-off recuperation.

I don't think Sport+ is optimized for efficiency. Rather, it's optimized for performance.

 

[W1NGE]

Hmmm... With Teslas I turn off regen (automatic recuperation equivalent) in ice and snow, exactly for traction reasons (so that when I let off the accelerator it doesn't start slowing down, especially undesirable while taking turns on low friction surfaces). Of course that means no regen at all (ok, there is a little as there is only "low" but no "off" setting), even when I would like it. I assume on the Taycan I can turn off automatic recuperation but it will automatically regen when I press the brake pedal.

I do it to avoid using the rotors as mush as possible and in practice have found it both excellent and reassuring for slowing the car in snowy / icy conditions on declines. Less chance of ABS kicking in or an unwanted slip.

I rarely use auto recup in any scenario as it is unpredictable due to other situational dependencies.

 

[f1eng]

I assume on the Taycan I can turn off automatic recuperation but it will automatically regen when I press the brake pedal.

The default mode is for coasting, which is most efficient, with recuperation only via the brake pedal.
There are 2 other options, “recuperation on, which actually just rather emulates what happens in an IC engined car when you lift off the throttle, familiar but not quite so efficient, and auto, which coasts unless it senses a car in front when some regen slows you.
I haven’t tried auto yet but will if I ever drive in conditions where i consider it appropriate.

I did use the regen on to help the range a bit when new and the brake regen hadn’t started yet but haven’t used it since, might as well use the sensible default.

 

[whitex]

The default mode is for coasting, which is most efficient, with recuperation only via the brake pedal.
There are 2 other options, “recuperation on, which actually just rather emulates what happens in an IC engined car when you lift off the throttle, familiar but not quite so efficient, and auto, which coasts unless it senses a car in front when some regen slows you.
I haven’t tried auto yet but will if I ever drive in conditions where i consider it appropriate.

I did use the regen on to help the range a bit when new and the brake regen hadn’t started yet but haven’t used it since, might as well use the sensible default.

Thanks. I think (couple of things still need to fall into place) I am doing a 5,000km+ "fly-and-drive" next month picking up my Taycan. I think I would prefer coasting mode (no automatic recuperation). Road tripping regeneration however would probably be helpful. Anything that can help enabling the regen sooner? Should I book a track session along the way?

 

[f1eng]

Anything that can help enabling the regen sooner?

There is a possibility it is braking dependant, some people have had to wait far more miles than others before braking regen was instigated.
I just switched standard regen on every time I drove until the regen was instigated, and sometimes do for the first mile or two before it kicks in again, so I am cleaning the discs but also recharging a bit. Probably not a big difference.

Generally I like the car to do what I expect so I am not sure the auto regen would appeal to me - things like lane keep assist and adaptive cruise I dislike.

 

[whitex]

There is a possibility it is braking dependant, some people have had to wait far more miles than others before braking regen was instigated.
I just switched standard regen on every time I drove until the regen was instigated, and sometimes do for the first mile or two before it kicks in again, so I am cleaning the discs but also recharging a bit. Probably not a big difference.

Generally I like the car to do what I expect so I am not sure the auto regen would appeal to me - things like lane keep assist and adaptive cruise I dislike.

I like the Tesla one pedal driving, but not on low friction surfaces. It is also annoying that it drives differently when the battery is too cold or too full (max regen is limited). I think I will like the no-recuperation-unless-brake-pressed Taycan mode better, as I expect it will provide same driving experience regardless of how much regen is possible at the time (the blending should take car of that). Of course the proof will be when I finally start driving it.

As for lane keep assist, I will have to see. I have the old MobileEye based version (AutoPilot 1) on one of our Teslas and the newer Nvidia based (AutoPilot 2) version on another. I primarily driver the AP1 car and I find it useful for longer drives (it feels like driving on a well designed road on which the car just follows the road curve), and when I want to grab a drink of water or do something in the cabin where I need both hands off the wheel for a few seconds, but can still watch the road. I don't like AP2 that much, as it drives like it's afraid of its own shadow (at least last time I tried it, which was maybe a year ago). My wife doesn't like it at all (keeps it disabled in settings) so I didn't even bother inquiring what it would take to upgrade to Tesla chip based (AutoPilot 3). I picked up Innodrive on the Taycan due to both the alleged safety features and the lane keeping which I hope will be on par with Tesla AutoPilot 1 as I find that somewhat useful (not every day, but from time to time). I actually couldn't care less about Innodrive speed limit recognition functionality, unless I can somehow hack that to pass this information to my radar/laser defense system to auto-mute warnings under the speed limit. ALK+Innodrive was ~$1,600 for my build, so it was worth a gamble.

Sponsored