Taycan possibly no longer eligible for tax rebate under new proposal?

fullmetalbaal

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https://electrek.co/2021/09/11/dems-propose-new-electric-car-rebate-tesla-disadvantage/

The headline is all about the disadvantage Tesla has (due to being non-Union, what a bullshit way to dish out rebates...)

But the relevant part for all of us: they propose limiting the car value too:
  • Sedans under $55,000
  • SUVs under $69,000
Who knows whether this survives, and if it does how long it takes to take effect.
But with the supply constraints as they are, if you order a Taycan now it may take a while to get it as well...

So I just wanted to share this in case somebody is on the fence and the rebate meaningfully impacts their decision.
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maddie

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https://electrek.co/2021/09/11/dems-propose-new-electric-car-rebate-tesla-disadvantage/

The headline is all about the disadvantage Tesla has (due to being non-Union, what a bullshit way to dish out rebates...)

But the relevant part for all of us: they propose limiting the car value too:
  • Sedans under $55,000
  • SUVs under $69,000
Who knows whether this survives, and if it does how long it takes to take effect.
But with the supply constraints as they are, if you order a Taycan now it may take a while to get it as well...

So I just wanted to share this in case somebody is on the fence and the rebate meaningfully impacts their decision.
oh no ! would this hit my car (expected delivery dec 2021)
 

Jhenson29

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The income limits relative to the car price limits are just bizarre.

@maddie I think it’s unlikely for 2021 or even 2022, which it’s possible your car may roll over into if you have a 12/21 delivery with current delays. But that’s just my opinion.
 

whitex

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Unions have deep lobby pockets plus influence their members voting. It you thought this bill is about saving the environment, you're wrong, it's about getting lobby "donations" and buying votes.
 

whitex

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The limit should be $40k. Nobody should get a tax break to buy a $200k Porsche.

Same should’ve been true for Tesla, Audi, Jaguar, etc.
Why? If your goal is to put as many EV's on the road, it should not matter how much it costs or who buys it. If it encourages a millionaire to buy a clean $100K EV's instead of an ICE ice cars making the same power (which will require burning a lot of gasoline), goal achieved. Remember also that those same EV's will eventually hit the used car market too, trickle down to lower prices. New technologies are expensive - notice there are not many EV's on the market under $40K today. If they were to limit the incentive to $40K as you suggest, you would be incentivizing building cheap sub-par EV cars, such as 80 mile range EV's which most people don't find practical as an ICE car replacement. That would be opposite to incentivizing EV's - there was a reason EV's didn't take off before Tesla made them a viable car replacement, and yes, the incentives did help. For example, I bought 4 of them while motivated by incentives which in my mind helped offset the risk of buying an unproven new tech. Had there not been EV incentives, I would have spent the same money on powerful gasoline burning cars.

If on the other hand the goal is to play Robin Hood, take from the people who make money and pay taxes and give it to people who don't, then just do that, why bother mixing EV's into this? Oh wait, I know this one, smoke and mirrors for gullible voters.
 
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Miwa

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Car manufacturers will optimize for the cutoff price. Lower prices mean way more people can afford it.

There’s lots of ways to use $7500 to address climate change that are likely much better than giving it to me to buy a car I would’ve anyway. If the rebate gates your decision in the US, then you probably shouldn’t be buying a $100k+ car in the first place.

There aren’t going to be enough Taycans sold for it to make any sort of dent in climate change. Mass market vehicles move the needle.
 

Jhenson29

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There’s lots of ways to use $7500 to address climate change that are likely much better than giving it to me to buy a car I would’ve anyway.
There aren’t going to be enough Taycans sold for it to make any sort of dent in climate change.
If there aren’t that many sold…there also isn’t much money spent on it…and not a lot being taken away from other projects. I’m not sure overall volume of a specific model is a good argument here.

I think you’re under-appreciating the transaction utility of the credit and effect it has on influencing behavior.

And it’s silly to comment on $7500 not having any effect on buyers in a forum littered with comments about discounts and people agonizing over options that cost far less.

Maybe some people would have bought anyway. Maybe some would have bought an ICE alternative.

I think it does matter, at least to some people, and suggesting they shouldn’t buy the car if the credit plays a factor is wrong. Like, money has no meaning once beyond $100k for a car…?
 
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Edax Rerum

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The most recent posts here kind of derailed my question, so I'll ask the question first. With this new language in the bill, would Tesla qualify for the tax credit again? I know they've sold enough so they don't qualify for the current tax language. Not that I'm considering a Tesla, but a friend of mine is on more of a budget than I am and he is considering a Tesla (I don't think he'd wait until the new bill took effect, though).

On to the tangent...you can do whatever you want with that $7,500 credit. You can choose to donate all/some/none of it to an environmental charity of your choice. You could also forgo taking that credit and just let the government keep that money (if you think the government is responsible with your money). Warren Buffett, for all his complaining about paying too little, always has the option to give more money to the government. Everyone does, but the vast majority of people would rather keep their money.
 

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https://electrek.co/2021/09/11/dems-propose-new-electric-car-rebate-tesla-disadvantage/

The headline is all about the disadvantage Tesla has (due to being non-Union, what a bullshit way to dish out rebates...)

But the relevant part for all of us: they propose limiting the car value too:
  • Sedans under $55,000
  • SUVs under $69,000
Who knows whether this survives, and if it does how long it takes to take effect.
But with the supply constraints as they are, if you order a Taycan now it may take a while to get it as well...

So I just wanted to share this in case somebody is on the fence and the rebate meaningfully impacts their decision.
I concur. Handing out rebates based upon the union status of a factory is complete bullshit. Just goes to show that it is hard for politicians to build a bridge to the future when they are living in the past. Biden & Co. need to watch a few "How It's Made" videos (preferably from this century) and recognize that the future of auto manufacturing is automation, not unionized manual labor. If Washington really wants to reduce transportation related green house gases it simply needs to tax all ICE vehicles and eliminate this silly, politically infused tax credit crap. Just phase in a federal 5% tax on the purchase price of every ICE vehicle (new and used) and watch demand for ICE cars plummet.
 

Jhenson29

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With this new language in the bill, would Tesla qualify for the tax credit again?
Yes, within the price limits.
On to the tangent...you can do whatever you want with that $7,500 credit. You can choose to donate all/some/none of it to an environmental charity of your choice. You could also forgo taking that credit and just let the government keep that money (if you think the government is responsible with your money). Warren Buffett, for all his complaining about paying too little, always has the option to give more money to the government. Everyone does, but the vast majority of people would rather keep their money.
Lol, yeah, but that’s a little unfair. I don’t have an issue with taxes in general or even them increasing, so long we’re all in it together. But voluntarily pay more all by myself? …?
 

Jhenson29

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Just phase in a federal 5% tax on the purchase price of every ICE vehicle (new and used) and watch demand for ICE cars plummet.
I don’t know if a % is a good idea. That’s providing larger incentives to people who can afford more expensive vehicles.


the future of auto manufacturing is automation, not unionized manual labor.
Bingo. But not just automotive. Manufacturing in general. People want more production with less labor. Because they can’t get the labor.
 

Miwa

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The most recent posts here kind of derailed my question, so I'll ask the question first. With this new language in the bill, would Tesla qualify for the tax credit again? I know they've sold enough so they don't qualify for the current tax language. Not that I'm considering a Tesla, but a friend of mine is on more of a budget than I am and he is considering a Tesla (I don't think he'd wait until the new bill took effect, though).
Yes, if you are under the income limit and buy a car under the MSRP limit. Since Tesla isn't unionized, they wont get the full credit.

More importantly, this is FAR from a passed law, so it's likely to change a bunch. I don't see a way that there isn't a new incentive that will help GM and Ford sell cars.
 

whitex

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Car manufacturers will optimize for the cutoff price.
Agreed.

Lower prices mean way more people can afford it.
Absolutely, BUT,
  1. It can mean crappy product. So what if many people can afford a Smart EV or Chevy Spark. It's mostly useful as a second car, in addition, instead of replacing, an ICE car.
  2. If it means more sales, they will do it anyways, incentive or not. Look at Tesla, they started with $100K car, they are now selling an order magnitude more cars ~$50K. Selling a million $50K cars makes more money than 50K $100K cars.
If your goal is to sell as many EV's as possible, don't limit the incentive, you will definitely sell more than with the limit. Manufacturers will always try to produce cheaper cars if it means many more sales. Heck., in Tesla case, they used up their incentives before they produced the cheaper cars, and yet, they still made them - so if you want to use Tesla as an example, the incentive could have had a minimum price, instead of a maximum price. There is no doubt in most people's minds that Tesla started the EV revolution, without it we'd all still be driving ICE cars, with celebrities driving Priuses for show.
 

Miwa

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Tesla has been supply constrained, even after the incentive went away. They would've sold plenty of cars without it. Early Model S buyers weren't buying because of the incentive (especially given the car was still $30k more than anything comparable, given how shitty the interior was and lack of anything luxury)

When GM's incentives ran out, they just added their own incentives, so my first and second Bolts were about the same price.

In the end, there's no way the next incentive will cover Taycans, or anything else expensive not made by Ford or GM.
 
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