TAYC4N

Well-Known Member
First Name
AM
Joined
Nov 24, 2019
Messages
711
Reaction score
478
Location
London UK
Vehicles
Taycan 4S Perf Battery
Country flag
https://electrek.co/2020/09/22/tayc...XeyniKlPV4uteWRw00mI1Y83oJjeqEKY0WEso7QC-Jb7E

Taycan electric car is already Porsche’s best-selling model, destroys Panamera sales

Porsche-Taycan-sales.jpg


The Taycan electric car has already become Porsche’s best-selling car in Europe, destroying the sales of the Panamera, its closest gas-powered competitor.

In terms of specs and design, the Porsche hit the mark with the Taycan, but the high price has raised questions about the vehicle’s potential success.

Porsche only started delivering the Taycan less than a year ago, and after ramping up production, the sales volumes are starting to be significant for a $100,000 performance vehicle.

In North America, sales are a bit slower, but in Europe, the Taycan is starting to do well.

Last month, the Taycan became Porsche’s best-selling vehicle in Europe, outselling the Porsche 911 with 1,183 units:



To be fair, the Cayenne is Porsche’s best-selling vehicle if you combine the SUV’s sales with the Cayenne coupe version.

However, that’s not the most interesting comparison.

In Porsche’s own lineup, the Panamera is the closest competitor to the Taycan, competing in the same category.

As you can see in the graph, Panamera sales are down 71% in Europe last month:

Porsche-sales-Europe-Aughust-2020.jpg



It’s also fair to note that overall sales of the other models are down partly due to the current economic situation.

Prior to starting deliveries, Porsche was planning for the production of more than 20,000 Taycans.

If it does ramp up to that level, it would be one of its best-selling vehicles globally.

Electrek’s Take
This is a good look for electric cars.

We have been saying it for a while: If you want to buy a Porsche right now, the Taycan is your best option.

With the Panamera being the closest form factor in the lineup, it makes sense that it is cannibalizing Porsche sales of the sedan. But it is also likely bringing new buyers to the brand.

Porsche is also expected to soon launch an electric Macan, and sales of the gas-powered version of the SUV are currently down 62%. That’s partly because of the pandemic, but I am sure some are also waiting for the electric version.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
833
Reaction score
1,261
Location
San jose
Vehicles
Tesla(s), 911 GT3, Boxster, Bolt, Taycan
Country flag
if the Taycan was priced more aggressively it would destroy Panamera sales - even at it’s current premium it’s taking a big chunk…

this has huge implications for the Macan and Porsche’s long term dealer service network revenues - there is far less to service in the Taycan and EV Macan - a big source of dealer - post sale revenues

this also flys in the face of there is no demand for an EV argument trotted out by many anti-EV people.

there remains two problems with the Taycan in north america
  1. the price
  2. teh charging network
I hope porsche is working to improve #2
 

daveo4EV

Well-Known Member
First Name
David
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
833
Reaction score
1,261
Location
San jose
Vehicles
Tesla(s), 911 GT3, Boxster, Bolt, Taycan
Country flag
good electric cars are ICE market killers:

the Model S killed the large sedan market - very successful
the Model 3 is killing the mid range ICE market - very successful to date
the Taycan is killing the lux sedan market for Porsche in europe
the Model Y will proably still killing the mid-sized SUV market soon
if the EV macan is any good it will kill the high-end mid-sized SUV market

people will buy these things if they are fully formed products and well done. And it puts others on notice that they are living on borrowed time.
 

jimithing

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
74
Location
USA - Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
2015 Macan Turbo, 2014 Panamera GTS
Country flag
good electric cars are ICE market killers:

the Model S killed the large sedan market - very successful
the Model 3 is killing the mid range ICE market - very successful to date
the Taycan is killing the lux sedan market for Porsche in europe
the Model Y will proably still killing the mid-sized SUV market soon
if the EV macan is any good it will kill the high-end mid-sized SUV market

people will buy these things if they are fully formed products and well done. And it puts others on notice that they are living on borrowed time.
EV market share in the US is still low single digits. None of these cars are "killing" the ICE & the Model Y has been a total bust, to the point that Elon is already talking about redesigning it (he wanted it to be more different from the Model 3 from the beginning & poor sales have validated his view). In the US, Ford will sell more F-150s in this year than Tesla has sold in its history. My company is a mix of blue-collar and white-collar workers. Of the few hundred cars in the lot, we have exactly zero EVs (although hybrids are catching on). My Taycan will be the first.

The EU is forcing the transition quicker with regulations but we won't know what steady-state demand for the Taycan looks like for a while now. The Panamera has never been a big seller. Cayenne & Macan have been well over half of Porsche's sales for several years now, as crazy as that sounds to Porsche enthusiasts. The Taycan is priced to move 20-40k units at a premium price and it's succeeding at that.

The ID.3 has a chance to be the first true mass-market EV. I'm also really intrigued to see how the Mach-E works out. It could totally change consumer perception in the US or it could be a colossal failure. We'll find out over the next year.
 

snstevens

Well-Known Member
First Name
Sam
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Messages
52
Reaction score
100
Location
Kirkland, WA United States
Vehicles
Taycan 4S
Country flag
EV market share in the US is still low single digits. None of these cars are "killing" the ICE & the Model Y has been a total bust, to the point that Elon is already talking about redesigning it (he wanted it to be more different from the Model 3 from the beginning & poor sales have validated his view). In the US, Ford will sell more F-150s in this year than Tesla has sold in its history. My company is a mix of blue-collar and white-collar workers. Of the few hundred cars in the lot, we have exactly zero EVs (although hybrids are catching on). My Taycan will be the first.

The EU is forcing the transition quicker with regulations but we won't know what steady-state demand for the Taycan looks like for a while now. The Panamera has never been a big seller. Cayenne & Macan have been well over half of Porsche's sales for several years now, as crazy as that sounds to Porsche enthusiasts. The Taycan is priced to move 20-40k units at a premium price and it's succeeding at that.

The ID.3 has a chance to be the first true mass-market EV. I'm also really intrigued to see how the Mach-E works out. It could totally change consumer perception in the US or it could be a colossal failure. We'll find out over the next year.
Jimmy - Just for the record, the West Coast is way different from the mid-Atlantic. While we have a ton of trucks out here the number of EVs is huge - you see them literally all the time. Adoption is crazy in the Seattle area and the number of Teslas is too high to count.

My guess is that with the advent of EV trucks there will be a sustained second wave of adoption that will put EV trucks in a lot of driveways. No one really needs more than 300 miles per charge and if you have that and can charge every night, the economics are that the EV is cheaper, less costly to maintain, and a hell of a lot more fun to drive.
 

HK111

Well-Known Member
First Name
Henrik
Joined
Oct 25, 2019
Messages
243
Reaction score
347
Location
Germany
Vehicles
Taycan 4S, Corvette C7 Stingray, Mercedes GL 320, Mercedes V 4Matic
Country flag
but we won't know what steady-state demand for the Taycan looks like for a while now.
True. But on the ground, what I experience is like this: On Sunday, I had a neighbour testdrive my 4S. He wanted to buy a 911 convertible. It seems, not anymore...
 

feye

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
632
Reaction score
426
Location
Asia
Vehicles
Taycan 4S+
Country flag
there remains two problems with the Taycan in north america
  1. the price
  2. teh charging network
I hope porsche is working to improve #2
1. Lucky all of you have ordered because based on the competition increasing the price Porsche should follow. This also means, that there might not be the Taycan base model in the US for some time, since there is no competition.

2. Need to wait for the ID.4 and Mach-e, which will bring more investment into the infrastructure.
 

Johnc33458

Active Member
First Name
John
Joined
Jun 4, 2020
Messages
40
Reaction score
9
Location
Port Washington
Vehicles
Porsche Taycan
Country flag
Just what are US sales of the Taycan. According to the dealer from whom I purchased my Taycan Turbo, sales are very slow.....911s are still the bread winner there.
 

PanameraFrank

Well-Known Member
First Name
Frank
Joined
Sep 6, 2019
Messages
513
Reaction score
748
Location
Seattle
Vehicles
Taycan 4S
Country flag
Just what are US sales of the Taycan. According to the dealer from whom I purchased my Taycan Turbo, sales are very slow.....911s are still the bread winner there.
*Macans and Cayennes

In the US Porsche nearly sells both more Macans AND more Cayennes than all of their cars combined.
 

svp6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
373
Reaction score
397
Location
MN
Vehicles
4S
Country flag
this has huge implications for the Macan and Porsche’s long term dealer service network revenues - there is far less to service in the Taycan and EV Macan - a big source of dealer - post sale revenues
Now, now, let's not get ahead of ourselves - don't you remember the over the (dealer's) air updates? I swear they were pumping the code line by line, took 6 hours to update on the WLG2 thingy...;)
 

svp6

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 6, 2019
Messages
373
Reaction score
397
Location
MN
Vehicles
4S
Country flag
EV market share in the US is still low single digits. None of these cars are "killing" the ICE & the Model Y has been a total bust, to the point that Elon is already talking about redesigning it (he wanted it to be more different from the Model 3 from the beginning & poor sales have validated his view).
Yup, still single digits, but I am not sure I agree with the rest of the statement

Here are sales for first 9 months in 2019 large luxury market, essentially the only one coming close to model S being the S-class. I would call that the "I already had your lunch, can I have your dinner too" situation... So yeah, kind of killing the luxury sedan market. Taycan being the best selling Porsche model shows this is not a Tesla thing, but rather an EV thing

For the busted model Y, I would not throw in the towel just yet. Deliveries only started in March, already outsold model X and Bolt....

Agree that F150 will be here for long time - probably until Ford itself launches its own EV version of the F150.

1600919511173.png
 

jimithing

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
74
Location
USA - Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
2015 Macan Turbo, 2014 Panamera GTS
Country flag
Jimmy - Just for the record, the West Coast is way different from the mid-Atlantic. While we have a ton of trucks out here the number of EVs is huge - you see them literally all the time. Adoption is crazy in the Seattle area and the number of Teslas is too high to count.

My guess is that with the advent of EV trucks there will be a sustained second wave of adoption that will put EV trucks in a lot of driveways. No one really needs more than 300 miles per charge and if you have that and can charge every night, the economics are that the EV is cheaper, less costly to maintain, and a hell of a lot more fun to drive.
Over 40% of Tesla's US sales are in California so Californians in particular have a wildly distorted view of Tesla's market position. Sounds like Seattle is a similar (it's the only corner of the US I've never visited!).

My comments were based on the national sales data. The numbers are what they are & EVs have been stubbornly stuck under 2% market share. Maybe it gets to 5-10% with ID.4 and Mach-E but the average consumer doesn't see the value in a BEV over a hybrid. The first version of the electric F-150 probably won't sell much. The F-150 customer is an even harder cohort to crack than the average person.

Everyone on this board is highly interested in EVs but it's a mistake to think that we are anything like the average American. We aren't. There's a bunch of Teslas in my neighborhood. But there's also Ferraris, Lambos, and G-Wagens. One guy is even rocking a Hummer H1. But this isn't what the mass market looks like.

IMHO broad EV adoption needs:
1. chargers need to become nearly as ubiquitous as gas stations. Make the average person think "everyone is doing it."
2. 350kW charge speed
3. Cost parity (which may only happen via high taxes on new ICEs)
4. Massive grid upgrades (the real elephant in the room)

I was very impressed with the ID.4 presentation today. Looks very promising & at a price that could really move units. Only time will tell.
 

jimithing

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
74
Location
USA - Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
2015 Macan Turbo, 2014 Panamera GTS
Country flag
Yup, still single digits, but I am not sure I agree with the rest of the statement

Here are sales for first 9 months in 2019 large luxury market, essentially the only one coming close to model S being the S-class. I would call that the "I already had your lunch, can I have your dinner too" situation... So yeah, kind of killing the luxury sedan market. Taycan being the best selling Porsche model shows this is not a Tesla thing, but rather an EV thing

For the busted model Y, I would not throw in the towel just yet. Deliveries only started in March, already outsold model X and Bolt....

Agree that F150 will be here for long time - probably until Ford itself launches its own EV version of the F150.

1600919511173.png
Tesla's move is to slice the market thinly enough to make their share look big. The large sedan market is near dead & not relevant to overall EV market penetration. The EPA killed the segment with overly tight MPG standards for cars and looser ones for light trucks. So what happened? Automakers turned all their luxury cars into light trucks (aka SUVs) so now we have the X5M and Cayenne Turbo S. Unintended consequences.

Tesla sold 192k out of the 17 million passenger cars/trucks/SUVs sold in the US last year. That's 1.1% market share. I wish more people bought the Bolt but they didn't. It's been a sales disaster. Toyota sold 336k Camrys in the US last year. That's mass market.

I think everyone on here thinks EVs are great and wants them to succeed. But let's be realistic about where we are, which is still very close to point zero. It's possible we get the next step up in adoption over the next 24 months with ID.4 and Mach-E if the economy recovers decently. I hope so because that will push EA to get it together and build more taycan-friendly charging stations.
 

jimithing

Well-Known Member
First Name
Jimmy
Joined
Jul 14, 2020
Messages
79
Reaction score
74
Location
USA - Mid-Atlantic
Vehicles
2015 Macan Turbo, 2014 Panamera GTS
Country flag
True. But on the ground, what I experience is like this: On Sunday, I had a neighbour testdrive my 4S. He wanted to buy a 911 convertible. It seems, not anymore...
I had that experience spending several days with a Model S two years ago. Enough to fall in love with electric propulsion but also know that I wasn't willing to give up Porsche build quality. In super excited to have some friends drive my Taycan when it arrives because I know they'll lose their minds over it.

I thought the Taycan was $25k too expensive when announced but after my first drive I understood that Porsche priced it correctly. It still is overpriced, but I'm willing to pay it because it's THAT good.
 

feye

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 16, 2019
Messages
632
Reaction score
426
Location
Asia
Vehicles
Taycan 4S+
Country flag
My dealer told me yesterday that over the one-week public holiday, they sold 50 Taycans and half of them were the base model starting at RMB 888888, USD 131k, GBP 100k, Eur 112k...
 

Advertisement





 



Advertisement
Top