Taycan Turbo S crushes Tesla Model S P100D in drag race

Friedrich

Well-Known Member
First Name
Friedrich
Joined
Apr 30, 2019
Messages
203
Reaction score
197
Location
Atlanta
Vehicles
Future: 2020 Porsche Taycan, 2022 Tesla Y; Current: Boxster S, Acura MDX; Past: 66 VW Beetle, 82 Porsche SC Targa, 91 Acura NSX, 98 Porsche Carrera Cabr, 2002 Porsche Carrera Cabr, 2004 Porsche Cayenne S
Country flag
Everyone keeps bragging about the Tesla battery technology. But if the batteries continue to overheat and effect the performance of the vehicle, how can anyone say Tesla has better battery technology. I even watch videos saying because Tesla has the cylindrical packets rather than square they are better with temperature management, yet the proof is in the pudding, unless reviews like this one are faked. Ok, Tesla has better at range, but is it not clear Porsche has a better temperature management system so crucial to sustained performance? Maybe once people start that are not selected by Porsche will start driving the cars, and we will get more objective reviews, perhaps with published temperatures.





Advertisement

 

charliemathilde

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 11, 2019
Messages
358
Reaction score
291
Location
CA
Vehicles
911
Country flag
Everyone keeps bragging about the Tesla battery technology. But if the batteries continue to overheat and effect the performance of the vehicle, how can anyone say Tesla has better battery technology. I even watch videos saying because Tesla has the cylindrical packets rather than square they are better with temperature management, yet the proof is in the pudding, unless reviews like this one are faked. Ok, Tesla has better at range, but is it not clear Porsche has a better temperature management system so crucial to sustained performance? Maybe once people start that are not selected by Porsche will start driving the cars, and we will get more objective reviews, perhaps with published temperatures.
they’re 20-30% better per Kw in daily driving conditions. The model 3 is the benchmark for this, not the model S. None of the current Teslas are designed for track or high performance use. not all of the energy / range improvements are strictly battery. There’s cooling, weight, aero, and systems drain.
 

Jenner

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2018
Messages
144
Reaction score
136
Location
CT
Vehicles
' 20 BMW M8 Convertible
Country flag
Everyone keeps bragging about the Tesla battery technology. But if the batteries continue to overheat and effect the performance of the vehicle, how can anyone say Tesla has better battery technology.
Tesla does have better battery tech. They design their unique batteries in house and control all aspects of it and give the vehicle access to 100% of the battery. They have more range than anyone else and so far the long term reports show that they batteries are holding up very well. The Model S battery cooling was not designed around track performance nor sustained performance. The Model S was never designed as a sports car. The Model 3 performance has better battery cooling than the Model S (but that will change in time). It is also not just the batteries that overheat but the motors as well. I expect Tesla will solve these issues on the Roaster 2 and next generation Model S (plaid or whatever they decide to call it) even the current Model 3 performance has much higher thermal limits and better battery cooling.

Porsche outsourced their motors to Hitachi. Porsche Design but still Porsche owners would go insane if they outsourced the IC engines!
Porsche outsourced the batteries to LG (again to their spec for performance, reliability, packaging, cost etc)

Porsche is going about things very differently than Tesla because it is a sports car company and designed the Taycan from the ground up as a sports car.
Some examples of this on the Taycan are:
Porsche keeps 10% of the battery in reserve. It only uses 83.7 kWh and saves 10% as reserve against battery degradation. I am sure this is to ensure the 8 year 100,000 mile battery warranty and for most Porsche owners this means 0% battery degradation for the original owner (and probably 2nd and 3rd as well)
800v system means it can run at lower current which equals less heat and higher efficiency
The Porsche designed permanent magnet electric motors run cooler and allow for better cooling as well compared to the asynchronous that Tesla uses:
xwilxasnhx5y5wdgaidc.png


Porsche went with rectangular hairpin winding's on the stators rather than the pull in winding that Tesla uses:
o7teil1wzaskzjkwiru1.png



Taycan has more robust liquid cooling design for the battery including dual front air radiators (yet still managed low CoD)
40c8d1d8-9fb9-4b81-917e-76e39e843e6f.jpg


And this is why Porsche went with a 2 speed gear box. To take advantage of a torque multiplier aka the 8:1 ratio first gear instead of the 16:1 2nd gear "efficiency" ratio vs the constant 9.83:1 ratio of the Model S.

All of these features combined allow for the full performance across 90% of the battery range where Tesla doesn't have any of these and suffers thermal throttling and/or requires a high battery charge to use/enable ludicrous mode and then performance starts to decline after the first run due to heat buildup in the entire system from motors to wiring to battery.

Even the Taycan with all these enhancements is held back thermally which is why the overboost function is limited to 2.5 seconds. Porsche wants the Taycan to drive like an ICE vehicle that has the same performance all the time. They went through great lengths to ensure this. So you can't just say Tesla has worse batteries.

And really for what they do best, Model S seats 7 has more range and cargo space vs the Taycan is a sports sedan, the Taycan is better compared/contrasted/showcased as a EV vs an ICE rather than vs Tesla EVs. I think this is something a lot of people and reviewers are missing entirely. Porsche opted for a ICE like driving experience that happens to be an EV, but I feel this will become more obvious with time.
 

Ron R

Well-Known Member
First Name
Ron
Joined
Oct 17, 2018
Messages
105
Reaction score
73
Location
Massachusetts
Vehicles
2014 Porsche Cayman
Country flag
Tesla does have better battery tech. They design their unique batteries in house and control all aspects of it and give the vehicle access to 100% of the battery. They have more range than anyone else and so far the long term reports show that they batteries are holding up very well. The Model S battery cooling was not designed around track performance nor sustained performance. The Model S was never designed as a sports car. The Model 3 performance has better battery cooling than the Model S (but that will change in time). It is also not just the batteries that overheat but the motors as well. I expect Tesla will solve these issues on the Roaster 2 and next generation Model S (plaid or whatever they decide to call it) even the current Model 3 performance has much higher thermal limits and better battery cooling.

Porsche outsourced their motors to Hitachi. Porsche Design but still Porsche owners would go insane if they outsourced the IC engines!
Porsche outsourced the batteries to LG (again to their spec for performance, reliability, packaging, cost etc)

Porsche is going about things very differently than Tesla because it is a sports car company and designed the Taycan from the ground up as a sports car.
Some examples of this on the Taycan are:
Porsche keeps 10% of the battery in reserve. It only uses 83.7 kWh and saves 10% as reserve against battery degradation. I am sure this is to ensure the 8 year 100,000 mile battery warranty and for most Porsche owners this means 0% battery degradation for the original owner (and probably 2nd and 3rd as well)
800v system means it can run at lower current which equals less heat and higher efficiency
The Porsche designed permanent magnet electric motors run cooler and allow for better cooling as well compared to the asynchronous that Tesla uses:
xwilxasnhx5y5wdgaidc.png


Porsche went with rectangular hairpin winding's on the stators rather than the pull in winding that Tesla uses:
o7teil1wzaskzjkwiru1.png



Taycan has more robust liquid cooling design for the battery including dual front air radiators (yet still managed low CoD)
40c8d1d8-9fb9-4b81-917e-76e39e843e6f.jpg


And this is why Porsche went with a 2 speed gear box. To take advantage of a torque multiplier aka the 8:1 ratio first gear instead of the 16:1 2nd gear "efficiency" ratio vs the constant 9.83:1 ratio of the Model S.

All of these features combined allow for the full performance across 90% of the battery range where Tesla doesn't have any of these and suffers thermal throttling and/or requires a high battery charge to use/enable ludicrous mode and then performance starts to decline after the first run due to heat buildup in the entire system from motors to wiring to battery.

Even the Taycan with all these enhancements is held back thermally which is why the overboost function is limited to 2.5 seconds. Porsche wants the Taycan to drive like an ICE vehicle that has the same performance all the time. They went through great lengths to ensure this. So you can't just say Tesla has worse batteries.

And really for what they do best, Model S seats 7 has more range and cargo space vs the Taycan is a sports sedan, the Taycan is better compared/contrasted/showcased as a EV vs an ICE rather than vs Tesla EVs. I think this is something a lot of people and reviewers are missing entirely. Porsche opted for a ICE like driving experience that happens to be an EV, but I feel this will become more obvious with time.
Small correction. Tesla makes their own battery packs, but not the cells. Panasonic produces the cells for them, although it seems to be something Tesla wants to move in-house (at least as of late June):

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-wants-to-make-its-own-battery-cells-report-says-2019-6
 

felixtb

Well-Known Member
First Name
felix
Joined
Dec 13, 2018
Messages
664
Reaction score
558
Location
switzerland
Vehicles
Porsche: Taycan R; Tesla: orig Roadster, X, new roadster reserved
Country flag
Small correction. Tesla makes their own battery packs, but not the cells. Panasonic produces the cells for them, although it seems to be something Tesla wants to move in-house (at least as of late June):

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-wants-to-make-its-own-battery-cells-report-says-2019-6
and a slight correction to that one. :)

Tesla and Panasonic make the cells together for the model 3 and beyond. for the old roadster and S and X it is Panasonic that makes the cells......

and yes Tesla is thinking about going it alone in the near future.....
 

Advertisement





 
ZYRUS


Advertisement
Top