Taycan Turbo S vs. Model S Plaid - really by this much!?

Fish Fingers

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I worked in racing all my career and remember Michael Schumacher when he first started getting......... I was chief engineer of Benetton F1 at the time).
Respect is due f1eng....
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kreshi

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When reading through the forum it feels like there is a huge difference in NA and EU peoples thinking. In Europe the youngsters definitely do not see Tesla as a Dream car. There are certainly some that do but it is 95% of the time Ferrari lambo AMG etc. aaand Porsche. This doesn’t make Tesla a bad car. In NA there are most definitely more young people after Tesla and I think I know why. The average NA person loves Hype. Tesla is ALL ABOUT hype.

Here in Switzerland honestly a Tesla is like a VW Golf. It almost never stands out in the crowd of cars. Again, doesn’t make them a bad car at all, but people cannot say the „Dreamcast Effect“ applies to Tesla exactly the same as to Porsche. The gap there is about the same as from a Plaid to a base Taycan - speed wise.

Btw. Someone mentioned „every year the next Tesla killer is announced“. This is done by the MEDIA, not the car makers. Nobody announces their car like that. Using that typical headline to bash other carmakers is just silly.
 

Jhenson29

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Why not take a plane if you're in such a rush that stopping for 20-30m every 3-4hrs makes a big difference to you? You cab buy a small aircraft for the price of a loaded Taycan Turbo S. You will save more time with the plane over a 14hr ICE car trip than you will with ICE over EV.
I think 20-30 min every 3-4 hours is optimistic or best case. It’s certainly not what I’ll always get. It’s assuming the stations work, they’re really close to highway, that you get an optimal charge, the time between is dictated by the sparsely installed stations that you have to look up in an app because they’re so rare and there’s no highway signs for their location. Ugh. Sorry. No thanks.

Look, I look forward to both charging time and infrastructure improving so that EV distance trips are much better. I’m sure we’ll get there. But we’re not now. Not for me anyway.

My 15 min is total off highway time (not stopped at the gas station time), and it’s usually worst case. It’s not what I hope for. It’s what I generally do. And do you know how much time I spend looking for or thinking about finding a gas station? Almost zero. I get low, I watch signs for fuel on exits (which is almost always the next one) and then I stop. Near zero thought.

I actually don’t even like driving diesel due to not always having a diesel pump when I pull off. I may have to make several attempts to get fuel.

Anyway, as I mentioned in post #147, I usually do fly with the family (I think I drove with a kid to CO once overnight because it was an emergency).

Almost all of my trip driving is for work, although if I had gone to Atlanta recently by myself, I would have driven.

Flying isn’t always the best either with time traveling to the airport, getting there early, delayed flights, missed layover connections, waiting for bags, waiting for lost bags, getting a rental, having to driving a crappy rental (or pay a bunch for something less crappy, but still not my car). Flying isn’t any magic time saver until you get to longer trips (over 6-8 hours driving typically, but it really depends on where you are coming from and going to, and what flights are available).

I was talking about flying commercial while you mentioned buying a plane. I know. But I won’t fly non-commercial. Not interested.

I used to typically fly on anything over 5 to 6 hours driving for work. Obviously fly for anything international. I was probably on 60 to 80 flights a year. But that stopped after covid. We just now started flying again for work earlier this year. So last year, I drove everywhere. While I probably typically drive something around 40k miles a year, last year was probably 60k. And no international travel, save for a trip into Canada which was even more difficult than usual to cross into. But s story for another time.

Even when we can fly, we do still drive if we have to take specific tools or parts or have to take a trailer or something. Plus, we have service vans loaded with stock tools and parts that are super handy when something unexpected happens in a trip (which seems like every trip) so sometimes it’s better to just drive even on slightly longer trips.
 

Mr.Smith

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When reading through the forum it feels like there is a huge difference in NA and EU peoples thinking. In Europe the youngsters definitely do not see Tesla as a Dream car. There are certainly some that do but it is 95% of the time Ferrari lambo AMG etc. aaand Porsche. This doesn’t make Tesla a bad car. In NA there are most definitely more young people after Tesla and I think I know why. The average NA person loves Hype. Tesla is ALL ABOUT hype.

Here in Switzerland honestly a Tesla is like a VW Golf. It almost never stands out in the crowd of cars. Again, doesn’t make them a bad car at all, but people cannot say the „Dreamcast Effect“ applies to Tesla exactly the same as to Porsche. The gap there is about the same as from a Plaid to a base Taycan - speed wise.

Btw. Someone mentioned „every year the next Tesla killer is announced“. This is done by the MEDIA, not the car makers. Nobody announces their car like that. Using that typical headline to bash other carmakers is just silly.
As an American there is a huge difference with European and the US car buyer.
The US is very much about how things look in pictures, hype, trend, less substance. For the most part, people in the US care less about quality, especially in the West Coast where I am.
Look at the quality of buildings here compared to Switzerland? You can't, so what do you expect from a car?

If a car looks nice on your social media, it's good enough.
Most of my friends have Teslas so I'm speaking from experience
 

Mr.Smith

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Obviously you haven't read all my comments.
How inconvenient.
Read any of these forums: Drivetribe, Jalopnik, Car Throttle, Autoblog, etc.
EVs aren't popular but it's getting better, way better than 5 years ago...
Still, Tesla has got real hate, it's there, really.
I suggest you read this whole thread again as I'm repeating myself.
Or you just don't understand what I'm trying to explain.
Either way, not my problem.

Ok, let's play a little guessing game as I'm getting a bit sick by the thickness of some Tesla fanboys here:

What word doesn't belong here?
Lamborghini, Ferrari, Bugatti, Tesla, Porsche, Koenigsegg?

Guess what car a young YouTuber will buy when his income rises with his views?
I'll help you: it's not a Tesla.

A Tesla isn't a dream car and this is a Taycan forum but lately I'm not sure about that last part.
I'm done here.
I've learned there are 3 topics that will create enemies.

Politics
Religion
Tesla

The entire media, financial media, social media, forums are constantly talking about Tesla.
It would be better if those 3 topics were eliminated from a Taycan forum.
 

charliemathilde

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When reading through the forum it feels like there is a huge difference in NA and EU peoples thinking. In Europe the youngsters definitely do not see Tesla as a Dream car. There are certainly some that do but it is 95% of the time Ferrari lambo AMG etc. aaand Porsche. This doesn’t make Tesla a bad car. In NA there are most definitely more young people after Tesla and I think I know why. The average NA person loves Hype. Tesla is ALL ABOUT hype.

Here in Switzerland honestly a Tesla is like a VW Golf. It almost never stands out in the crowd of cars. Again, doesn’t make them a bad car at all, but people cannot say the „Dreamcast Effect“ applies to Tesla exactly the same as to Porsche. The gap there is about the same as from a Plaid to a base Taycan - speed wise.

Btw. Someone mentioned „every year the next Tesla killer is announced“. This is done by the MEDIA, not the car makers. Nobody announces their car like that. Using that typical headline to bash other carmakers is just silly.
EU folks seem to be moving to EV faster. I’m deeply skeptical that this is a “young kids in America are totally different than kids in Germany”. There are places in NA where EVs are rare enough to be kinda exotic. It won’t last but I get it. The instant torque is delicious and in many of these places a Porsche would be too expensive even for an aspiration. Your first 0-60 3s car that isn’t unobtainable on the median salary. Yes please! My first car did 0-60 in double digits. If EVs had been around for my teenage days … man. I would have died in glory!

come to Silicon Valley and try to brag you have a Tesla. The laughter will peel to the sky. They’re everywhere. Anyone who wants a Tesla has one. it’s like bragging you got a coffee at Starbucks or eat at McDonalds. Nothing wrong with either, i enjoy both from time to time, but aspirational ? Lolololol.

Gotta say, no few number of Tesla owners have pulled me aside and in a low voice, like they’re afraid I’ll judge them, told me my 911 is their dream car. No judgement. Horses for courses. Tesla make great commuter / family vehicles.

People are hard wired to want what they don’t have.
 

jmi91

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Probably that is because you don´t own one...

I prefer my Tesla as everyday car, and my Taycan for the weekends and track days. The infotainment system of the Tesla is years ahead of PCM, and those automatic doors should be mandatory for a car of 200K+ €$ (the doors of the Model X are second to none...)

And you can play games, surf the net, watch Youtube or Netflix, listen to Spotify Premium (all for free in my car).

You don´t have nothing like that in any Porsche car yet, and sometimes is very welcome to have it.
In my Taycan, the entertainment is now better than in my previous Tesla !
I can watch TV, Netflix, Prime video, Disney+, Youtube, etc, surf the net...
I can listen to Spotify, Deezer, Apple Music, Amazon music, etc...
I can play any android game...
So I can use my Taycan touchscreen with any android application !
I just bought a 260€ device connected to the usb port.

https://fr.aliexpress.com/item/1005003028957404.html?pdp_ext_f={"sku_id":"12000023327307522","ship_from":"CN"}&gps-id=pcStoreJustForYou&scm=1007.23125.137358.0&scm_id=1007.23125.137358.0&scm-url=1007.23125.137358.0&pvid=2c0d266d-ec05-4be0-8896-bb89e79d1794&spm=a2g0o.store_pc_home.smartJustForYou_6000429800194.0
 
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whitex

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I think 20-30 min every 3-4 hours is optimistic or best case. It’s certainly not what I’ll always get. It’s assuming the stations work, they’re really close to highway, that you get an optimal charge, the time between is dictated by the sparsely installed stations that you have to look up in an app because they’re so rare and there’s no highway signs for their location. Ugh. Sorry. No thanks.

Look, I look forward to both charging time and infrastructure improving so that EV distance trips are much better. I’m sure we’ll get there. But we’re not now. Not for me anyway.

My 15 min is total off highway time (not stopped at the gas station time), and it’s usually worst case. It’s not what I hope for. It’s what I generally do. And do you know how much time I spend looking for or thinking about finding a gas station? Almost zero. I get low, I watch signs for fuel on exits (which is almost always the next one) and then I stop. Near zero thought.

I actually don’t even like driving diesel due to not always having a diesel pump when I pull off. I may have to make several attempts to get fuel.

Anyway, as I mentioned in post #147, I usually do fly with the family (I think I drove with a kid to CO once overnight because it was an emergency).

Almost all of my trip driving is for work, although if I had gone to Atlanta recently by myself, I would have driven.

Flying isn’t always the best either with time traveling to the airport, getting there early, delayed flights, missed layover connections, waiting for bags, waiting for lost bags, getting a rental, having to driving a crappy rental (or pay a bunch for something less crappy, but still not my car). Flying isn’t any magic time saver until you get to longer trips (over 6-8 hours driving typically, but it really depends on where you are coming from and going to, and what flights are available).

I was talking about flying commercial while you mentioned buying a plane. I know. But I won’t fly non-commercial. Not interested.

I used to typically fly on anything over 5 to 6 hours driving for work. Obviously fly for anything international. I was probably on 60 to 80 flights a year. But that stopped after covid. We just now started flying again for work earlier this year. So last year, I drove everywhere. While I probably typically drive something around 40k miles a year, last year was probably 60k. And no international travel, save for a trip into Canada which was even more difficult than usual to cross into. But s story for another time.

Even when we can fly, we do still drive if we have to take specific tools or parts or have to take a trailer or something. Plus, we have service vans loaded with stock tools and parts that are super handy when something unexpected happens in a trip (which seems like every trip) so sometimes it’s better to just drive even on slightly longer trips.
Given all of your requirements and restriction, an ICE car, or possibly a diesel car with a retrofitted auxiliary fuel tank seems to be the best choice. Perhaps rail (trains) but that depends if you even have that option to where you want to go (if you have that option, it will save even more time on such long trips, and potentially even can take your Taycan with you). Of course if budget is no issue, you could also charter a commercial plane (since you said you do not want to fly in private jets as one of your restrictions is never to fly non-commercial).
 

TayFan

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As an American there is a huge difference with European and the US car buyer.
The US is very much about how things look in pictures, hype, trend, less substance. For the most part, people in the US care less about quality, especially in the West Coast where I am.
Look at the quality of buildings here compared to Switzerland? You can't, so what do you expect from a car?

If a car looks nice on your social media, it's good enough.
Most of my friends have Teslas so I'm speaking from experience
I also believe the US (in particular the coasts) are much more into the hype and lore of start up culture and the glorious leaders behind them…and there is pride for Tesla being a start up darling from the US etc etc….
 

whitex

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I've learned there are 3 topics that will create enemies.

Politics
Religion
Tesla

The entire media, financial media, social media, forums are constantly talking about Tesla.
It would be better if those 3 topics were eliminated from a Taycan forum.
I would say that it is really just two topics. To some, Tesla is a religion to some. I speak from experience having owned Teslas since 2013. Wanting to buy a Taycan is blasphemy to some people on Tesla forums I've been a part of for years. Kind of like saying anything positive about Tesla to user Dee here on this forum.
 

Dee

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...
Kind of like saying anything positive about Tesla to user Dee here on this forum.
Like I said before, read my comments again.
You totally misunderstood or you're just too thick to understand what I'm saying.
Trying to bend this into a personal attack is just sad.
I intentionally retrieved myself from this discussion cuz I was reapeating myself.
Now that I see you want to make it personal I think I should reply again.
We would probably disagree with each other if you would understand what I was trying to say, so leave it that way.
Thank you.
 
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Jhenson29

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Given all of your requirements and restriction, an ICE car, or possibly a diesel car with a retrofitted auxiliary fuel tank seems to be the best choice. Perhaps rail (trains) but that depends if you even have that option to where you want to go (if you have that option, it will save even more time on such long trips, and potentially even can take your Taycan with you). Of course if budget is no issue, you could also charter a commercial plane (since you said you do not want to fly in private jets as one of your restrictions is never to fly non-commercial).
I think you’re looking for a solution where there isn’t a problem. I’m not looking to “improve” my current travel. Improve is in quotes as I think you’re optimizing one variable at the expense of others.

I’m just not looking to make travel worse, which an EV would do based on current charging rates and infrastructure. I sacrifice time and ease to gain….what? Reduced charging costs vs gas and less maintenance. That’s all I’ve got. 🤷‍♂️

The Taycan has been outstanding for local use.👍

Additionally, budget is an issue. I’m not rich. At least not by any standards that would warrant purchasing a plane or chartering a commercial flight to optimize travel. And for work trips? I fly economy, even overseas. Nobody’s paying for a chartered commercial flight for me. 🙂
 

whitex

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I think you’re looking for a solution where there isn’t a problem. I’m not looking to “improve” my current travel. Improve is in quotes as I think you’re optimizing one variable at the expense of others.

I’m just not looking to make travel worse, which an EV would do based on current charging rates and infrastructure. I sacrifice time and ease to gain….what? Reduced charging costs vs gas and less maintenance. That’s all I’ve got. 🤷‍♂️

The Taycan has been outstanding for local use.👍

Additionally, budget is an issue. I’m not rich. At least not by any standards that would warrant purchasing a plane or chartering a commercial flight to optimize travel. And for work trips? I fly economy, even overseas. Nobody’s paying for a chartered commercial flight for me. 🙂
I agree with you, your solution works best for you. I was not trying to fit an EV as a solution to a problem for which it's not best suited. Different problems have different optimal solutions, based on set of requirements and restrictions. EV's are not a universal solution to all transportation. If I wanted to plow a field, I'd get a tractor, and not try to use a Taycan or a Tesla, even if I was able to figure out how to do it. ;)
 

Tay-k

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As an American there is a huge difference with European and the US car buyer.
The US is very much about how things look in pictures, hype, trend, less substance. For the most part, people in the US care less about quality, especially in the West Coast where I am.
Look at the quality of buildings here compared to Switzerland? You can't, so what do you expect from a car?

If a car looks nice on your social media, it's good enough.
Most of my friends have Teslas so I'm speaking from experience
Well said. But what I don't get is, if Americans care so much about looks, why does the Tesla look so crap? Porsche Taycan is 2-3 leagues above it in design.
 

Tay-k

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Tesla wiped the floor with MS Plaid. There is no competition today, ít´s much faster than the Taycan, but who cares? We own a great Porsche….
A) the plaid looks like garbage

B) its faster but unstable - a Taycan turbo S can do what it needs to do (launch control, own bends, etc) 100x without loss in efficiency. A plaid will go up in flames. Its American tech, what do you expect. Anyone can put a rocket engine on metal and it will "wipe the competition" in speed. Wow!

C) You don't own a Porsche. You're a Tesla owner with an agenda.

The dye has already been cast with the Taycan and Tesla is shitting its pants. The Plaid was a knee jerk "hurry, we can't lose this fight" desperate attempt by Tesla to one up the legends in Zuffenhausen. Porsche is going to eat Tesla in EVs over the coming 10 years. The plaid is an adorable attempt by you know who to come up ahead, temporarily, in his usual dick measuring contests.

Remember, style is temporary, class is permanent.
 
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