Taycan Turbo S vs. Model S Plaid - really by this much!?

[Tay-k]

Another Tesla on fire: https://www.businessinsider.com/cou...charging-overnight-caused-a-house-fire-2021-8

Sponsored

 

[feye]

I've said this before, but my Turbo S has almost gotten me in trouble with how fast it builds speed. I've had a few oh-sh!t moments.

That's why I never even considered the TS after my test drive at Hockenheimring. It was brutal and had zero use for my daily driving needs. So considering all the problems with oversized engines in cars which cannot handle it (chassis, BMS, cooling, tires, etc) Porsche doesn't see T as a challenge. They do what the rest of the industry does, build a fully rounded product for their customers.

Porsche absolutely nailed it with the Taycan - including the charger as sales numbers show it.

 

[feye]

I'm sure this was posted on the forum already, but the initial tests of the Rimac Nevera are mind boggling. Four motors, totaling almost 1900hp.

with 120kWh and only 2150kg, that's nice!

 

[whitex]

I agree with this…once you get to 3.0 seconds for 0-60, laws of diminishing returns really start to kick in, IMO. But Plaid’s pull from 60-130 is damn impressive.

THAT ^^
I still have an old Model S with Ludicrous mode and pretty much never floor the car from stand still, as it means everything in the car that is not tied down or stowed away goes flying into the back seat. I leave most cars from the lights without the accelerator hitting the floor. On highways however, entering and passing maneuvers, that is where more power is better, the accelerator hits the floor on more than one occasion - would love to have even more power there. I've tried the launch mode once, never use it otherwise. That is why I see zero value in Taycan Turbo S over Turbo. Decided on a Taycan CT Turbo primarily because the 4S did feel underpowered on the highway as compared to my Model S and I didn't want to feel like I took a step back.

PS> Decided against the Plaid primarily due to its yoke steering wheel with no stalks or physical buttons (all tiny touch buttons with no tactile feedback), and the fact that Tesla treats its customers like their own private test fleet to experiment with. There are other reasons, but this tops the list.

 

[whitex]

That's why I never even considered the TS after my test drive at Hockenheimring. It was brutal and had zero use for my daily driving needs. So considering all the problems with oversized engines in cars which cannot handle it (chassis, BMS, cooling, tires, etc) Porsche doesn't see T as a challenge. They do what the rest of the industry does, build a fully rounded product for their customers.

Porsche absolutely nailed it with the Taycan - including the charger as sales numbers show it.

Is that a Tesla charger in the background?

 

[grahamsimmonds]

I usually have a lot of time for Brooks and Dragtimes as he usually researches the cars he races to ensure that they get the best performance. The bone I have to pick with him is for some reason the Turbo S he races in this video has 20" wheels. Someone has deliberately put these on it as 21s are standard. If you watch the three races you can see the Turbo S is struggling for traction which is why it is so slow off the starts. The one aim of this video was to humiliate the Porsche using whatever means at hand. Its a joke.

Now, I am not saying that the Porsche could have won because it wouldn't. However, I think the Taycan could have performed so much better than it did. The number of times I have heard Brooks whine on about how races against the Model S Performance were not fairly run and he goes and does this. Not that he will care, but I have unsubscribed from his channel.

 

[feye]

Is that a Tesla charger in the background?

Looks like:

 

[charliemathilde]

THAT ^^
I still have an old Model S with Ludicrous mode and pretty much never floor the car from stand still, as it means everything in the car that is not tied down or stowed away goes flying into the back seat. I leave most cars from the lights without the accelerator hitting the floor. On highways however, entering and passing maneuvers, that is where more power is better, the accelerator hits the floor on more than one occasion - would love to have even more power there. I've tried the launch more once, never use it otherwise. That is why I see zero value in Taycan Turbo S over Turbo. Decided on a Taycan CT Turbo primarily because the 4S did feel underpowered on the highway as compared to my Model S and I didn't want to feel like I took a step back.

PS> Decided against the Plaid however primarily due to it's yoke steering wheel with no stalks or physical buttons (all tiny touch buttons with no tactile feedback), and the fact that Tesla treats its customers like their own private test fleet to experiment with. There are other reasons, but this tops the list.

Eh. I’ve been doing that for … long time. Nothing goes on the dash. Ever. One of my college buddies insisted it was a stupid rule. Well, until I intentionally sent the pennies he left there into his face. Lesson learned.

it’s been at least 20 years since sports cars had more power than anyone could lawfully use. I (we?) still love them. Someday when I have a 1000hp street legal car I’ll manage to shoulder the awful burden …

 

[charliemathilde]

I'm sure this was posted on the forum already, but the initial tests of the Rimac Nevera are mind boggling. Four motors, totaling almost 1900hp. When you break it down, the front motors only have 295hp each, and the rear each have 644hp. So while this car costs $2M, it's not a stretch to think a four motor configuration with similar horsepower will show up in sub $200k cars shortly. Add a second set of front and rear motors to the Turbo S and you're at 1500hp.

Just look at how much quicker the Nevera is compared to the Ferrari SF90.



As Car and Driver says, this really is a paradigm shift in performance.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a36607982/2021-rimac-nevera-drive/

"It shouldn't be this easy to beat a Bugatti Chiron Sport in the quarter-mile. This level of acceleration should require more driver skill, some rare manual dexterity lacking in Joe Commuter. Admittedly, it's pretty easy to do a full-bore standing-start launch in a Chiron or any gas car that shifts gears for you. But the electric Rimac Nevera's acceleration and its physiological impact on you are so extraordinary that you feel it shouldn't be accessible to anyone able to afford the $2,400,000 price and brave enough to hold the accelerator down."

this. I think we see 4 motor power trains come down to super car price levels in less than 10 years. I’m really interested in the handling and dynamics changes that are possible with 4 in wheel independent motors like the Drako

https://www.engadget.com/drako-motors-supercar-ice-lake-093232878.html

not just adding horsepower. But negative torque vectoring. A lot of folks slam EVs for not having soul, but we’re not all that far off from EVs being able to do things no ice car can do (beyond the drag race party trick)

exciting times

 

[Alemany]

For me 0-60 times are overrated but I’ve never been the type that cared much about that. Don’t get me wrong I like fast cars. I just care more about how a car handles real world driving with the twists and turns that come with it. I have more fun taking corners at high speed than I do accelerating in a straight line.

Guilty as charged. I lived in Germany many years with technically no speed limits (there are some), and after 20 minutes at 170 mph on the autobahn, it gets as boring as 65 mph on out interstates. But acceleration, specifically 0-60 or thereabouts, is always exciting. So I love 0-60 and often buy cars influenced by this.

 

[JustLooking]

Based on the comments about the brakes (way under sized for the weight and speeds), wait until a couple of Plaid owners head to a road track and cook the brakes after a couple of laps and end up in a barrier.

Years ago my brother put a supercharger on his Mustang Cobra. We went to a track day and after two laps he cracked both of his rotors. He found a shop nearby that had replacements, and swapped them out. Two laps later same thing. A big heavy car with insane acceleration needs some serious brakes.

The Plaid running around Laguna Seca has aftermarket brakes (possibly carbon ceramic). I'll be curious to see if a stock Plaid can really handle the repetitive braking on a tough road track.

"The so-called Pikes Plaid retains its stock brake calipers but subs in Unplugged Performance/PFC rotors."
"Before the car gets to Colorado, the company intends to fit its front end with [...] high-performance brake pads."

Source: https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-s-plaid-pikes-peak-race/

P.S. My dealer told me if I track the Huracan I'll lose my warranty and even with the carbon ceramics brake fade is common.
P.P.S. Brakes are one of the first upgrade items on any track car/bike. When you get fast enough you almost always have to upgrade something or other.
P.P.P.S. The plaid is lighter than the Taycan

 

[Chas1]

https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-model-s-plaid-faster-than-porsche-taycan-turbo-s-2021-8

I can’t see myself ever leaving the ultimate refinement of Porsche for a car that feels like a Kia with a lot of power (test drove Model 3, S, X all felt like I went back 15 years in quality)… but yikes this is almost embarrassing!

I’m so not impressed by drag race results. For me anything close to 5s is more than enough for a daily driver. Plaid and Turbo S acceleration times result in cars that are more like loaded weapons. The Porsche is streets ahead in build quality handling and looks. I know people will compare the two but there’s no contest really.

 

[Chas1]

0-60 times are clearly important to a good fraction of Porsche Taycan drivers, since that's a substantial reason to buy a Turbo S vs. Turbo or a Turbo vs. a 4s. And in general, Porsche (as do all German OEMs) uses 0-60 times as a major differentiator between their models and submodels. They aren't doing that for fun - it's because they know customers care.

As for the repeatability, time will tell. Early indications are that Tesla addressed this in the Plaid.
Different battery cooling, different chemistry, different motors, 2x the radiator surface area.
These cars are handling 7+ quarter mile runs without issues. The pikes peak race had a modified Plaid, but one that apparently had no changes to cooling or battery pack or drive unit. And it did very well. It will be interesting to see production Plaid on Laguna Seca and Nurburgring.

They are definitely not standing still.

Agreed - and so for me there’s little point of buying a Turbo or Turbo S. The 0-60 times are for me, and I expect many others, an irrelevance. It’s handling design and quality of materials and of build. One matter that does really bug is the Taycan’s width. Wider than a Panamara and even a Cayenne. It’s really too wide for U.K. country lanes. Nearly all porsches are now GT cars. I’d be happy if Porsche bought out a proper nimble electric sports car which just oozed quality and design. I suspect many would be happy to pay for that - just look at those classic 911 prices!

 

[Jsherid!]

I considered the Model S Plaid and really respect the performance they have achieved but I just could not get past that Yoke Steering Wheel and secondary controls like the turn signals and the shifter being touch screen functions or capacitive buttons. I'd probably adjust to it but it seems like stupid things to have to adjust to as a grumpy middle aged man.

A second thing that kept me from pulling the trigger on the Model S is that it now looks pretty ho hum in a world where you see three Model 3s and 2 Model S's at every stoplight here in the northern suburbs of Dallas. It is fundamentally a decent looking car but they have not moved the styling game on at all since the Model S was introduced.

But the real decision factor that got me is that the Taycan immediately felt right when I drove it--as James May says it gave me "a fizz" and the Tesla didn't.

 

[manitou202]

"The so-called Pikes Plaid retains its stock brake calipers but subs in Unplugged Performance/PFC rotors."
"Before the car gets to Colorado, the company intends to fit its front end with [...] high-performance brake pads."

Source: https://www.motortrend.com/news/tesla-model-s-plaid-pikes-peak-race/

P.S. My dealer told me if I track the Huracan I'll lose my warranty and even with the carbon ceramics brake fade is common.
P.P.S. Brakes are one of the first upgrade items on any track car/bike. When you get fast enough you almost always have to upgrade something or other.
P.P.P.S. The plaid is lighter than the Taycan

So new rotors and pads? The pictures from the car look like new calipers as well. Possibly carbon ceramic rotors. That's the beauty with testing a non-factory configured car, you can change anything you want. I will wait to see how a completely stock Model S Plaid performs. I welcome reports that prove it's 100% capable in the stock form.

That's great your Lamborghini dealer said you lose your warranty. Doesn't mean that a Porsche can't handle a track day with stock rotors and pads. I know from a lot of experience, and I'm sure you can quickly read about most stock Porsche's handling track days with no problems. There are also numerous reports from owners taking Taycan's to the track. Brakes aren't a major issue. Different story with reports from some of the Plaid Model S reviews.