Taycan Turbo S vs. Model S Plaid - really by this much!?

[manitou202]

I grew up with posters of a 911 Turbo, a Ferrari 308, and a Countach on my wall. These were the dream cars of my childhood. When I got to college it shifted to something more realistic, an E36 M3. At that time the M3 was in the mid $40k range and seemed possible when I graduated.

As I got older and my income grew to the point where I could begin entertaining the cars of my childhood, Porsche entered the equation.

For many, Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, etc will always be a dream that isn’t achievable. So, a Model 3 Performance (similar to the E36 M3 in some ways) could be a dream car for many. The Plaid also bridges that gap between higher priced super cars. It’s not crazy to think Tesla’s are dream cars for many.

This doesn’t mean that Porsche or Ferrari are any less of a dream car. I would bet for most people (who appreciate cars) if their financial situation changed, so would their dreams.

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[XLR82XS]

Correct.
It's a fact (and not my opinion) that the overall opinion on Tesla is that it is hated by many.
All I'm saying.
Personally I don't hate Tesla but I think Porsche has a lot more depth in brand experience, not only by me but by many many other people.

+2

 

[Dee]

It is quite obvious that some members here drive Teslas or have driven Teslas.
I don't hate them, I just point out that the overall opinion on forums and groups are anti-Tesla.
I'm sorry you found out this way.
You're just denying what people are saying about Tesla, hence the excuses you guys make up and/or share your own experience.
But what do these same people say when you're gone?
Those opinions are on forums/groups where people are anonymous so they say what they really think.

PS Interesting discussion btw. ???

 

[Tsingtao]

Uh, not sure about the kids in your area, but I routinely get a thumbs up and a "cool car, mister" from kids about 15 on down when driving my Tesla. On the off chance I pick up one of the kids at school, guaranteed there are 2-3 likes as I drive by. This despite the fact that Teslas are very common where I live. I get way more appreciative mentions in it than when driving my 911. Most kids view it as another electronic device, but one that can drive. They love the connectivity, the simplicity and the speed.

The hate on Tesla is mostly from the established "car guys" who bemoan the fact that Corvettes don't have round tail lights, and had an embolism when it went mid-engined. And for whom any car with less than three pedals is an "autotragic" despite the fact that most of them once owned a C3 Corvette but now drive Camrys and minivans. They shout from the rooftops about "range anxiety" and "panel gaps" despite never having seen an EV or a Tesla up close and personal, much less driven one.

The Taycan is a superior vehicle, although not as good as an EV, but as with most automotive brands, the haters are largely online dudes in their basement.

So, not sure what you need to be sorry about.

Agree completely that there is no need to hate Teslas. Buuuuuut, I do hate that Covettes no longer have round tail lights! Is there nothing sacred in this world? (I'd have to fact check this, but I believe that even the Pope had some harsh words for GM when they ditched the round tail lights.)

 

[Needsdecaf]

It is quite obvious that some members here drive Tesla's or have driven Tesla's.
I don't hate them, I just point out that the overall opinion on forums and groups are anti-Tesla.
I'm sorry you found out this way.
You're just denying what people are saying about Tesla, hence the excuses you guys make up and/or share your own experience.
What do these same people say when you're gone?
Those opinions are on forums/groups where people are anonymous so they say what they really think.

PS Interesting discussion btw. ???

LOL, this has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. "I'm sorry you found out this way"? Do you really believe what you wrote? If you really believe that those of us who have positive things to say about Tesla are in denial, making up excuses, and that people talk differently to our face, well, honestly, that's pretty sad. Or scary.

Yes, we are aware that there is hate, a LOT of hate, for Tesla.

Are you aware that your observations of forums and groups do not actually represent society in general as a whole? And these things you call "facts" are not facts. They are observations that you are turning into facts. By your logic, I could go to an Indian restaurant for the first time, order three dishes that were all spicy and conclude, "Indian food is spicy". This is not the way that things work. I'm not saying in any way your observations are incorrect. They are, after all, your observations. But to expand them across to society in general or pretend that there isn't an opposite position? Well, sorry, that's not just how the world works.

Likewise, I'm also aware that there ARE people who cannot be objective about Tesla. The fanbois, the kool-aid drinkers, the Musk worshippers. Yes, they are real and they are out there. But do you know what?

THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND! Yes, there are people who have positive overall opinions about Tesla while still acknowledging their faults. There are people who have negative opinions about Tesla who acknowledge their positive contributions. And guess what? Same goes for Porsche or any other brand? I've owned multiple Porsches. Not a single one has been perfect. Some have had flaws that my VW GTi didn't have. Am I an apologist because I still like the brand?

 

[riburn3]

It is quite obvious that some members here drive Teslas or have driven Teslas.
I don't hate them, I just point out that the overall opinion on forums and groups are anti-Tesla.

PS Interesting discussion btw. ???

I mean, that depends on the forum. I could say the same thing in the affirmative of Tesla. There's lots of forums, groups, and subreddits where it's a big Tesla circlejerk. Just as there obviously is with Porsche.

I would expect a forum dedicated to Porsche and their EV, to have an overall negative slant toward Tesla. Same for auto blogs and groups dedicated overall to legacy automakers. I bet if I go on a BMW forum and start talking about the superiority of a Boxtser vs a Z4 or 911 over an M4, I'm gonna get dunked on. Or obviously, if I'm on a Tesla forum and start talking about how much better the Taycan is, I will get roasted. People flock to the echo chamber and don't like dissenting voices.

 

[Dee]

My brain is melting.

I guess it's also a fact that the overall opinion on Tesla is that is it loved by many.

On a Tesla forum yes.
Not on a random car page, at least not the majority.
It's what I see.
These are all kinds of people, young, old.

I often asked myself, why this hate?
I mean you can hate Fiat for creating the Multipla but c'mon, the hate on Tesla is just unreal.
Well, at least what I've seen about hating on a brand.
Look, I'm not hating on Tesla, I'm just pointing out that there is a deep hate on Tesla.
But we're wandering off, I'll stick to my statement that a Porsche is more desirable than a Tesla.
That's all.
And I think it's just playfull to spice up a discussion.
I'm sorry if I offended someone or something.
...

?

 

[riburn3]

I often asked myself, why this hate?
I mean you can hate Fiat for creating the Multipla but c'mon, the hate on Tesla is just unreal.
Well, at least not what I've seen about hating on a brand.
Look, I'm not hating on Tesla, I'm just pointing out that there is a deep hate on Tesla.
But we're wandering off, I'll stick to my statement that a Porsche is more desirable than a Tesla.
That's all.

?

You're dead on that a Porsche is more desirable.

Tesla generates hate because their CEO is ridiculous and divisive (though a genius), their dedicated fans are more hardcore than any other automotive brand (and super obnoxious), and the company itself has completely shaken up the automotive world after many of the experts, journalists, forums and blogs said the brand would amount to nothing. When the Model S first was being developed, they were laughing in Stuttgart and saying Porsche would never make an EV. Here we are on a forum, dedicated to an awesome Porsche EV.

 

[Dee]

...
Tesla generates hate because their CEO is ridiculous and divisive (though a genius), their dedicated fans are more hardcore than any other automotive brand (and super obnoxious), and the company itself has completely shaken up the automotive world after many of the experts, journalists, forums and blogs said the brand would amount to nothing. When the Model S first was being developed, they were laughing in Stuttgart and saying Porsche would never make an EV. Here we are on a forum, dedicated to an awesome Porsche EV.

Ow, it's much bigger than that.
It has to do with the opinion that these EVs aren't saving the world, the subsidies, the cobalt, the toxic batteries, the coal powered electricity, that these cars are out of reach for most people, that they are faster than any ICE, the charging takes hours, the range should be 1000+ miles before they even consider buying an EV, soulless, the sound they're not making...etc etc.
Sounds familiar?

Yes, here we are, owning a fantastic car, discussing.
I feel privileged.
Who cares who's hating? ?

 

[Erez123]

If you're in the market for an EV, what car is out there that offers a superior experience to a Model 3 SR+ at the same price point?

Quality on some builds, especially early on is lacking, but a Model 3 SR+ offers decent range, superior technology, is very safe, easy to drive, spirited enough for most motorists, is low maintenance, and has a great charging infrastructure.

Tesla owners demographically are all 6 figure earners, maybe to the upper tier of driver's it indicates Xbox player, but in many areas a Tesla is still seen as a novelty brand associated with rich people.

I think you’re 100% right.

No car is perfect, and I am happy to acknowledge the good in Tesla’s, as well as some of the shortcomings of the Taycan.

For it’s price bracket, I don’t think there is a better EV than a Model 3, yet. I know there are many on the horizon (the i4 in particular looks great), but for the time being, nothing comes close to it.

When you move so far up the price bracket to the S, not to mention the Plaid, the shortcomings for me become unforgivable at that cost. (And that’s before you even factor in the yoke).

However, Tesla do some great things that I wish were brought over to the Taycan….and also, there’s no question that they were the forefront of the EV revolution when it came to practical terms of selling people on to the concept in a “cool” desirable format.

Taycan, for me is far far superior as a car to anything they offer…..but i love the competition. Long may it continue.

 

[kreshi]

I mean, there is a lot of hate against Tesla because Tesla has done A LOT of shitty things. Teslaboys seem to forget what that company has done and is doing.

 

[schad]

Teslaboys seem to forget what that company has done and is doing.

Conversations with Tesla fanboys can occasionally seem oddly 1984-ish.

The Cybertruck is coming out in late 2022. The Cybertruck has always been coming out in late 2022.

 

[riburn3]

When you move so far up the price bracket to the S, not to mention the Plaid, the shortcomings for me become unforgivable at that cost. (And that’s before you even factor in the yoke).

Couldn't agree with you more. I don't mind the shortcomings for a price point under 50k, and I feel like the superior technology makes up for the lack of refinement in the cabin. But at 100k, there's no excuse, and it's why I think premium sedans like the Mercedes EQS/E will do well.

Honestly one of the reasons I own a Taycan now is because the quality of build isn't up to par in a Tesla. I had already been a Porsche owner, and when it was coming time to replace my 2013 Tesla Model S, I first looked at another Tesla, but there just isn't enough there anymore to justify the cost, especially when what you get isn't so far off from their much less expensive models (which didn't exist in 2013).

My local dealer had a Taycan on the lot and the test drive was pure magic. Not as grounded as my Boxster, but pure Porsche, and the fit and finish just destroyed a Tesla. I've not looked back and have a CT4 on the way.

 

[Needsdecaf]

I mean, there is a lot of hate against Tesla because Tesla has done A LOT of shitty things. Teslaboys seem to forget what that company has done and is doing.

As someone who owns a diesel Porsche, I would like to remind you that Telsa has not (yet) been forced into a consent decree for knowingly violating federal laws and been fined over $4 billion. Just saying.

I really hope that NHTSA cracks down on them for this ridiculousness that is "Full" "Self" Driving. They deserve to get their a$$ handed to them on that front.

 

[Needsdecaf]

Couldn't agree with you more. I don't mind the shortcomings for a price point under 50k, and I feel like the superior technology makes up for the lack of refinement in the cabin. But at 100k, there's no excuse, and it's why I think premium sedans like the Mercedes EQS/E will do well.

Honestly one of the reasons I own a Taycan now is because the quality of build isn't up to par in a Tesla. I had already been a Porsche owner, and when it was coming time to replace my 2013 Tesla Model S, I first looked at another Tesla, but there just isn't enough there anymore to justify the cost, especially when what you get isn't so far off from their much less expensive models (which didn't exist in 2013).

My local dealer had a Taycan on the lot and the test drive was pure magic. Not as grounded as my Boxster, but pure Porsche, and the fit and finish just destroyed a Tesla. I've not looked back and have a CT4 on the way.

Yup, pretty much. A know a bunch of Tesla owners that are in the camp of "as soon as something remotely comparable comes along, I'm gone".

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