Taycan Turbo S vs. Model S Plaid - really by this much!?

[kreshi]

EU folks seem to be moving to EV faster. I’m deeply skeptical that this is a “young kids in America are totally different than kids in Germany”. There are places in NA where EVs are rare enough to be kinda exotic. It won’t last but I get it. The instant torque is delicious and in many of these places a Porsche would be too expensive even for an aspiration. Your first 0-60 3s car that isn’t unobtainable on the median salary. Yes please! My first car did 0-60 in double digits. If EVs had been around for my teenage days … man. I would have died in glory!

come to Silicon Valley and try to brag you have a Tesla. The laughter will peel to the sky. They’re everywhere. Anyone who wants a Tesla has one. it’s like bragging you got a coffee at Starbucks or eat at McDonalds. Nothing wrong with either, i enjoy both from time to time, but aspirational ? Lolololol.

Gotta say, no few number of Tesla owners have pulled me aside and in a low voice, like they’re afraid I’ll judge them, told me my 911 is their dream car. No judgement. Horses for courses. Tesla make great commuter / family vehicles.

People are hard wired to want what they don’t have.

Just because a car is rare, doesn’t mean it’s exotic. A PT-cruiser is rare, still extremely ugly and nobody wants it. I’m sorry but nobody on this planet can put Tesla and “Exotic” or “Dream car” together. Yes Europe is moving fast towards EVs, but to EVs in general, not just Tesla. And that is happening for many reasons, but not because people always dreamed of having an EV. Ask a 20 year old what he would buy if he got rich, 99.999999% of the time it won’t be Tesla or most EVs. I say most because a Rimac and a Taycan Turbo S are not regular EVs. Lotus etc. coming with “super EVs” too. And now before someone says “but the plaid beats all in terms of straight line speed”. Yes, and there again most people do not care about that when the car that you drive looks like a 2013 family sedan. It’s simple as that. A new Peugeot is faster than a 1980 Ferrari. So with that logic the Peugeot is more desirable. Doesn’t make the Peugeot bad at all, this is solely about the desire of people.

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[Mr.Smith]

Well said. But what I don't get is, if Americans care so much about looks, why does the Tesla look so crap? Porsche Taycan is 2-3 leagues above it in design.

I don't think the teslas look like crap. The Model S is still a gorgeous design, exterior only. It's better looking than many EVs including the EQS.

Taycan, Audi E-Tron GT and a few others are stunning cars that happen to be powered by electric propulsion.
Before the Model S, your EV design was a Nissan Leaf.

I would say that it is really just two topics. To some, Tesla is a religion to some. I speak from experience having owned Teslas since 2013. Wanting to buy a Taycan is blasphemy to some people on Tesla forums I've been a part of for years. Kind of like saying anything positive about Tesla to user Dee here on this forum.

You and a few others are an exception to the rule. I find Model S owners, especially the original ones to be different. The members here are not like this for the most part because they are not attached to Tesla, but there are posters here that are only here to defend Tesla.

Tesla is a MLM scheme and a cult wrapped onto one.
When critizing Tesla, you could be hurting someones livelihood because they are shareholders. For this reason, they feel the need to shove their cars down your throat due to the incentives. Throw in potentially 2 free Roadsters or even some free charging and you've got a party.

There isn't a Tesla owner on the planet that doesn't know Elon Musk. What % of Porche owners know who the CEO of Porsche is or Audi or even care?

I have literally lost friends by critizing Tesla.

 

[Tay-k]

I don't think the teslas look like crap. The Model S is still a gorgeous design, exterior only. It's better looking than many EVs including the EQS.

Taycan, Audi E-Tron GT and a few others are stunning cars that happen to be powered by electric propulsion.
Before the Model S, your EV design was a Nissan Leaf.

You are right, they only look like crap relative to the Taycan. I should have been more clear.

 

[whitex]

You and a few others are an exception to the rule. I find Model S owners, especially the original ones to be different. The members here are not like this for the most part because they are not attached to Tesla, but there are posters here that are only here to defend Tesla.

Tesla is a MLM scheme and a cult wrapped onto one.
When critizing Tesla, you could be hurting someones livelihood because they are shareholders. For this reason, they feel the need to shove their cars down your throat due to the incentives. Throw in potentially 2 free Roadsters or even some free charging and you've got a party.

There definitely are some Tesla fanboys out there, some hold stock too. There are also shorts out there, dissing Tesla. Unfortunately accusing people of being a Tesla short or Tesla fanboy sometimes becomes the universal tool to try to discredit someone's opinion, regardless whether positive or negative. There are plenty of moderate opinions out there about Tesla, but they are often flamed/drowned out by the extremists.

Btw, your comment about MLM not exactly accurate. Tesla bases their marketing on word of mouth almost exclusively and they used to have lucrative referral programs, which might make you think MLM, but:

1. They never spanned multiple levels (so not "Multi" in MLM)
2. They have long ago trimmed referrals to 1000 miles of free supercharging, non-transferable, and expiring within a year IIRC (I could be wrong on the expiry term).

Full disclosure, I don't currently own, have previously owned TSLA stock or options. I do still own 2 of the 4 Teslas I've purchased since 2013 - none of them have the yoke. I still enjoy driving those Tesla cars. I am switching to a different brand, primarily because I no longer like the company product+service offering, and very much disliked some of the BS they've pulled on me as a customer in the past. Right now Taycan CT Turbo is what I want to buy to replace one of the Model S, but depending on how long it takes to get an allocation, if something better comes along, I might switch. The other Model S will probably get replaced by some other brand too, but my wife doesn't have an alternative in mind yet - awaiting more EV choices. I might some day return to Tesla, if they have a product offering I like again.

There isn't a Tesla owner on the planet that doesn't know Elon Musk. What % of Porche owners know who the CEO of Porsche is or Audi or even care?

I know one, my mother-in-law. Apparently Teslas are popular in her circles at work, but I'm not sure she knows much about Elon, other than perhaps heard some things from my son who helped her with the purchase. She loves the car so far by the way (a Model 3 SR+).

I have literally lost friends by critizing Tesla.

Sorry to hear that. While I have criticized Tesla to friends on multiple occasions, never lost one over it.

 

[Chas1]

LOL, this has got to be one of the most ridiculous statements I've ever read. "I'm sorry you found out this way"? Do you really believe what you wrote? If you really believe that those of us who have positive things to say about Tesla are in denial, making up excuses, and that people talk differently to our face, well, honestly, that's pretty sad. Or scary.

Yes, we are aware that there is hate, a LOT of hate, for Tesla.

Are you aware that your observations of forums and groups do not actually represent society in general as a whole? And these things you call "facts" are not facts. They are observations that you are turning into facts. By your logic, I could go to an Indian restaurant for the first time, order three dishes that were all spicy and conclude, "Indian food is spicy". This is not the way that things work. I'm not saying in any way your observations are incorrect. They are, after all, your observations. But to expand them across to society in general or pretend that there isn't an opposite position? Well, sorry, that's not just how the world works.

Likewise, I'm also aware that there ARE people who cannot be objective about Tesla. The fanbois, the kool-aid drinkers, the Musk worshippers. Yes, they are real and they are out there. But do you know what?

THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND! Yes, there are people who have positive overall opinions about Tesla while still acknowledging their faults. There are people who have negative opinions about Tesla who acknowledge their positive contributions. And guess what? Same goes for Porsche or any other brand? I've owned multiple Porsches. Not a single one has been perfect. Some have had flaws that my VW GTi didn't have. Am I an apologist because I still like the brand?

Indeed, it’s a modern click bait approach to debate … where extremism becomes fashionable and illogical tribalism results. Our passion for cars and different brands is really about preference and reinforcing our desire or purchase decision. A first world problem indeed, after all once a car can cover basic utility the rest must just be luxury.

 

[Chas1]

BBC

Probably that is because you don´t own one...

I prefer my Tesla as everyday car, and my Taycan for the weekends and track days. The infotainment system of the Tesla is years ahead of PCM, and those automatic doors should be mandatory for a car of 200K+ €$ (the doors of the Model X are second to none...)

And you can play games, surf the net, watch Youtube or Netflix, listen to Spotify Premium (all for free in my car).

You don´t have nothing like that in any Porsche car yet, and sometimes is very welcome to have it.

Taycan has Apple Car play so you can plug into the matrix if really need to.

 

[Chas1]

Yes. I firmly believe what you describe is absolutely the future that is coming faster than we think…

I agree that this will very likely be the direction for mass transportation of the future. However I suspect that high end ownership will remain, privacy, exclusive access and opportunity for individualisation will be important for those that can afford it and Porsche along with others have a brand that could survive and thrive.

 

[Chas1]

Yes. I firmly believe what you describe is absolutely the future that is coming faster than we think…

I agree that this will very likely be the direction for mass transportation of the future. However I suspect that high end ownership will remain, privacy, exclusive access and opportunity for individualisation will be important for those that can afford it and Porsche along with others have a brand that no survive and thrive.

 

[feye]

Yes, we are aware that there is hate, a LOT of hate, for Tesla.

The vast majority is simply indifferent. So this statement is just another one out of the fanboy playbook.

THERE IS A MIDDLE GROUND! Yes, there are people who have positive overall opinions about Tesla while still acknowledging their faults. There are people who have negative opinions about Tesla who acknowledge their positive contributions.

What are the positive contributions? Unsafe touchscreen everywhere. Yoke steering with crazy overpowered engines. Insanely oversold FSD. Roads are so much safer now.

 

[feye]

As someone who owns a diesel Porsche, I would like to remind you that Telsa has not (yet) been forced into a consent decree for knowingly violating federal laws and been fined over $4 billion. Just saying.

I really hope that NHTSA cracks down on them for this ridiculousness that is "Full" "Self" Driving. They deserve to get their a$$ handed to them on that front.

Don't it look like, that only foreign owned companies are fined and therefore isn't that wishful thinking?

 

[fullmetalbaal]

What are the positive contributions? Unsafe touchscreen everywhere. Yoke steering with crazy overpowered engines. Insanely oversold FSD. Roads are so much safer now.

Let's start with: I really doubt we'd have the Taycan if it weren't for Tesla starting/accelerating the EV wave.

They also introduced OTA, the notion that cars can have decent entertainment/media software, phone as a key, decent apps for a car, mobile service, decent supercharging network, in the US: kicking the rotten dealers out of the mix (that alone, in my book, is worth their existence - for now others like Rivian and Lucid are following)... the list goes on.

 

[feye]

...the very first Taycan was rather rough to drive, the gear shifting was jarring and unpleasant, hill hold sucked.

None of that I experienced. What are you talking about??? In normal mode and regular driving you never experience any gear shifting. The hill hold works perfectly. My MS90D on the other hand, just rolls back down the hill, which any recup or breaking applied. Shocking!

 

[Needsdecaf]

Don't it look like, that only foreign owned companies are fined and therefore isn't that wishful thinking?

Pal, Troll elsewhere, will you?

https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/other/nhtsa-fines-gm-35-million-over-ignition-switch-issue/ar-AAR3tp

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/ford-fined-1735-million-n_b_3732186

https://one.nhtsa.gov/About-NHTSA/Press-Releases/nhtsa_fca_penalty_12102015

 

[fullmetalbaal]

None of that I experienced. What are you talking about??? In normal mode and regular driving you never experience any gear shifting. The hill hold works perfectly. My MS90D on the other hand, just rolls back down the hill, which any recup or breaking applied. Shocking!

If you don't feel the shifting, you either got the "special edition", or I want some of what you're smoking.

 

[feye]

Let's start with: I really doubt we'd have the Taycan if it weren't for Tesla starting/accelerating the EV wave.

Your argument is on this level:

When I look out of the window, all I see is skyscrapers. Therefore, China disrupted the building industry and now the whole world is building skyscrapers. Without China, you would still sit in a little wood shed.

It's just another fanboy lie! We discussed it so often.

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/omg-elon-really-does-lie.6448/post-92644

https://www.taycanforum.com/forum/threads/omg-elon-really-does-lie.6448/post-93213

They also introduced OTA, the notion that cars can have decent entertainment/media software, phone as a key, decent apps for a car, mobile service, decent supercharging network, in the US: kicking the rotten dealers out of the mix (that alone, in my book, is worth their existence - for now others like Rivian and Lucid are following)... the list goes on.

When Bosch introduced CAN into the car in 1986, software got ever more complex. This is a long running trend and has nothing to do with T. So again more fanboy garbage!

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