Tesla Model S Plaid Announcement

Kevin2dx

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Just posting a screenshot of the configurator online since it's just been updated with respect to the Tesla battery day announcement. It looks like it's delayed till end of 2021 and around $154k USD which is in the Taycan pricing range. 0-60 in under 2 seconds and 1/4 mile in under 9 sec....sounds like Roadster territory o_O Just based on its aesthetics alone though, I would not buy one myself. :p

Screen Shot 2020-09-22 at 3.50.58 PM.png
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daveo4EV

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It looks like it's delayed till end of 2021
just my perspective as a long time Tesla customer (I’ve own 5 Tesla’s and currently own 1 Tesla)

end of 2021 means mid 2022 _IF_ you’re lucky
the Roadster was supposed to be mid-2020 - we’re still waiting
sub-2 second 0-60 is difficult on street tires (physics not engineering) - the drive train may be able to do it - but it will require some pretty ideal conditions (temperature, surface type, and battery SOC)
by then Lucid Air will be on the market - that will be interesting
Elon will still be promising a drop of the FSD sofware just 10 weeks out cause it’s gotten so good

EA network will still suck
and in North America the supercharger network will still be way better than the CCS fast charging network

it remains to be seen if Tesla will improve on anything over the drive train - if it’s not a refreshed “S” with a better interior at that price point it will be even more dicy than it is today.

at $154,000 base price I’ll take the Taycan’s fit/finish over Tesla’s for a simlar price

Porsche will still be sending us to dealers for OTA updates, and we’ll still be having random 12V battery issues…

competition is good for all vendors - I love seeing the progress.
 
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LukeManning

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just my perspective as a long time Tesla customer (I’ve own 5 Tesla’s and currently own 1 Tesla)

end of 2021 means mid 2022 _IF_ you’re lucky
the Roadster was supposed to be mid-2020 - we’re still waiting
sub-2 second 0-60 is difficult on street tires - the drive train may be able to do it - but it will require some pretty ideal conditions
by then Lucid Air will be on the market - that will be interesting
Elon will still be promising a drop of the FSD sofware just 10 weeks out cause it’s gotten so good

EA network will still suck
and in North America the supercharger network will still be way better than the CCS fast charging network

it remains to be seen if Tesla will improve on anything over the drive train - if it’s not a refreshed “S” with a better interior at that price point it will be even more dicy than it is today.

at $154,000 base price I’ll take the Taycan’s fit/finish over Tesla’s for a simlar price

Porsche will still be sending us to dealers for OTA updates, and we’ll still be having random 12V battery issues…

competition is good for all vendors - I love seeing the progress.

Totally agree with you on the mid-2022 release for this. I'm still waiting to see Semi and Roadster produced.

Also agree that for $145k (and no more Federal Tax Credit) that I'd lean towards the Taycan for fit and finish alone. I don't have faith in Tesla being able to produce anything as good in terms of fit and finish as Porsche for at least the next 5-10 years.

Hopefully you'll be wrong on all the other Taycan items, but who knows!
 

daveo4EV

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Hopefully you'll be wrong on all the other Taycan items, but who knows!
I will honestly LOVE to be 100% wrong and eat humble pie on the internet in public to be wrong!!! Even consider buying lunch for people when I’m wrong - I really really really want to be wrong - please let me be wrong. PLEASE!

@LukeManning seriouslly call me out when this predication proves to be wrong - I will happily admit I was 100% wrong (and then be happy cause I’ll still have my Taycan and have a good charging network and no 12V issues and OTA updates)…I’ve put my money where my mouth is, but that doesn’t mean I’m blind or stupid - I’m still lacking a perspective on any real motivation on Porsche’s part to “fix” these problems - the EA problem being the most thorny.
 
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manitou202

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They should have revealed a Model S (and X) refresh along with the Model S Plaid. The current Model S is a bit tired and regardless of the insane acceleration and lap times it just doesn't deliver. I have a feeling that the Plaid Model S could be horrible on the road in terms of noise and ride quality. Ultimately it's still just a really, really fast sedan that has a great party trick, but lacks most other qualities at that price point.

I always tell people a Chevy Camaro ZL1 1LE runs the same lap time as a brand new 991.2 GT3. They cost less than half as much as the GT3. Still wouldn't buy a Camaro ZL1 1LE.
 

svp6

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From my perspective, the plaid is just bragging rights and a few racing aficionados. Who in the world needs a 0-60<2 s for a sedan? That together with the lack of a refresh makes me doubtful on the success of the car. I'll stick with my 4S for now, when lease expires will think about a refreshed Taycan or whatever MB or BMW will have as alternative. Also the Audi GT cousin may be equally tempting.

As for the EA network, I am actually more hopeful progress will happen faster over next 12 months than previous 12. Main reason is the release of important non-Tesla EVs - the Mach-E, ID from VW, etc. Once these are in significant numbers the charging network infrastructure will follow.
 

snstevens

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I will honestly LOVE to be 100% wrong and eat humble pie on the internet in public to be wrong!!! Even consider buying lunch for people when I’m wrong - I really really really want to be wrong - please let me be wrong. PLEASE!

@LukeManning seriouslly call me out when this predication proves to be wrong - I will happily admit I was 100% wrong (and then be happy cause I’ll still have my Taycan and have a good charging network and no 12V issues and OTA updates)…I’ve put my money where my mouth is, but that doesn’t mean I’m blind or stupid - I’m still lacking a perspective on any real motivation on Porsche’s part to “fix” these problems - the EA problem being the most thorny.
Dave - I love your posts and your insights. I also agree that most of the issues with EA and the Taycan will continue into 2021, and possibly longer (sigh...)

But for anyone reading this post let me say that the Taycan 4S is the best car I've ever purchased (leased) because it is by far the most fun to drive.

The other issues like my learning how to avoid curbing the 21" Mission-E wheels (ouch on the first repair), deciding how to handle EA charging stations that aren't working, etc. are still on the "who cares" end of the spectrum for me. I simply love this car :rock:

Did I say it was the most fun to drive?
 

PerPower

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Personally I don’t care about the Plaid Model S - the current Ludicrous is plenty fast, has more than enough range for most people and besides in Germany, where can you use the current 261 km/h top speed??? In terms of what the current Taycan offers, I still prefer that over the Plaid.

Tesla current and future development of the battery is - on the other hand - really impressive!! Unless other manufacturers just buy the battery from Tesla in the future, they have a decent amount of work/development on their table :)
 

Mouse House

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If they can actually do what they say that will be great but...
These new tabless cells, which Tesla is calling 4860 cells, will make the company’s EV batteries five times more energy-dense, six times more powerful, and enable a 16 percent range increase for Tesla’s vehicles.
Five times more energy dense sounds like BS; six times more powerful seems like BS.

In my area of work (cancer therapy research) if you make anything more than really tentative forward looking statements people will laugh at you, and unless you actually post the data they won't believe you anyway.

I did some superficial reading and some people at Tesla published a manuscript last month describing a potential battery improvement that has up to 60% (not 600%) increased battery capacity by volume (they skirt around the weight which I guess is the key metric) with a lifetime of 200 cycles which seems to be about 10% of normal EV batteries. So even in the latest published research and in ideal conditions this particular technology looks nowhere near ready for prime time.
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.natu...1560-020-0668-8
 

Dee

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I really don't care if it's coming.
Only thing I care about are my Tesla stock shares.
What a ride so far!
Still, I have more Porsche stock shares, just to be integer... :)
Porsche Taycan sales looking VERY good so far!
 
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DeciusCaeciliusMetellus

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If they can actually do what they say that will be great but...


Five times more energy dense sounds like BS; six times more powerful seems like BS.

In my area of work (cancer therapy research) if you make anything more than really tentative forward looking statements people will laugh at you, and unless you actually post the data they won't believe you anyway.

I did some superficial reading and some people at Tesla published a manuscript last month describing a potential battery improvement that has up to 60% (not 600%) increased battery capacity by volume (they skirt around the weight which I guess is the key metric) with a lifetime of 200 cycles which seems to be about 10% of normal EV batteries. So even in the latest published research and in ideal conditions this particular technology looks nowhere near ready for prime time.
https://sci-hub.se/https://www.natu...1560-020-0668-8
Somebody messed up. The batteries are just bigger, so a single cell holds 5x more energy.
 

Mouse House

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Somebody messed up. The batteries are just bigger, so a single cell holds 5x more energy.
Ah. That makes more sense... so quite a lot of spin. I didn't spot the dimensions, maybe it was more clear live.

1600859080579.png


So these claims are all pretty speculative as well:
1600859165726.png


As ever I'm hugely keen to see the technology develop as quickly as possible, it's just pretty wearing to have to take everything Musk says with a giant pile of salt.
 

svp6

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Have to give Tesla the edge on battery technology and product integration though. Their efficiency in terms of Wh/mile/kg is excellent. I am sure though others are listening too - and improve their technology. My hope is that by the time my lease expires in 3 years there will be a mid-cycle Taycan refresh with new battery tech.
 

svp6

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And just for my curiosity, I went on the online configurator. It is mind boggling that the options are identical with the model S - which means nearly non-existent. I remember there was a time when the performance 100D model was starting around 130k or so. They made only a tiny fraction of Tesla sales. I suspect it will be the same with plaid.
 
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